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Author Topic: Iran delivered "Sair" 100 mm automatic airdefence gun to IRGC  (Read 4622 times)

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Offline mbulava

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Re: Iran delivered "Sair" 100 mm automatic airdefence gun to IRGC
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2012, 03:47:45 PM »
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Quote from: Ich on February 11, 2012, 11:50:52 AM
The altitude is about 40000 ft. I think the complete system is based on the same radar/trakking-system as Mesbah-1. Together, Mesbah-1 and Sair with their opt/ir/passiv radar/tracking-system will give a good point- and sitedefence against e.g. cruse missiles.

IR Iran's Mesbah-1 Radar/IR-optically steered AAA


Maybe this will also be interesting for you, but i dont know if the info is correct

SHORAD

This anti air system is very effective against low altitude air targets including cruise missiles. It is some how similar to the Russian Pantsir-s1 gun in terms of using electro- optical system and a radar with high fire rate guns. nevertheless, these guns are Russia ZSU-2-23 integrated with one system. its max range and altitude  3 km. But regarding Safir, I don't know if using a one gun as an anti air system against supersonic, 4th and 5th generation air crafts still effective those days. Guns like those are obsolete and out of date in most world armed forces.
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Offline Ich

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Re: Iran delivered "Sair" 100 mm automatic airdefence gun to IRGC
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2012, 08:50:12 PM »
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Quote from: mbulava on February 12, 2012, 03:47:45 PM
This anti air system is very effective against low altitude air targets including cruise missiles. It is some how similar to the Russian Pantsir-s1 gun in terms of using electro- optical system and a radar with high fire rate guns. nevertheless, these guns are Russia ZSU-2-23 integrated with one system. its max range and altitude  3 km. But regarding Safir, I don't know if using a one gun as an anti air system against supersonic, 4th and 5th generation air crafts still effective those days. Guns like those are obsolete and out of date in most world armed forces.

Mh, as you can read in this thread the Sair is fully automated with an optical/ir FCS. If you deploy a lot (> 1000) in packs of 8 or more, all linked together, and all with the option of proximity or timer rounds, you can paint a 3-D sticky finger of hellish shrapnells directly in front of any airplane. You dont have to follow them -> they fly directly in hell by themself. If it is in optimal use, you can deploy batteries whole over iran and controll them from anywhere. You only need some people who refill the autoloader (and these dont need to be specialists ^^). For the enemy pilot there is no warning, no radarsignal, nothing. And BANG directly in front of his cokpit the hell suddenly opens his doors...no chance to evade...
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Offline Numbers

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Re: Iran delivered "Sair" 100 mm automatic airdefence gun to IRGC
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2012, 02:40:50 AM »
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Quote from: reza18 on February 12, 2012, 02:56:05 PM
Fact is, they have some form of radio communication and that alone makes them susceptible to detection..They simple cannot fly blind and carry out "surgical" strikes without some signal coordination coming from them or somewhere to them..They need some form or navigation and that could be in the form of radio or gps..Either way, they CAN still be detected..

Stealth Aircrafts can not be detected by Passive Radar. Once Stealth Aircraft flies into enemy territory it flies without Radio contact and without Radar.

Only if US Generals want to redirect Stealth Aircraft to different target do they transmit Radio signal from military satellite.
And satellite transmission goes for very short time (1 minute).

Passive Radar only detects AIrcrafts that do fly with Radar switched on all the time (such as F-18).

To detect Stealth Aircraft you need either Electro Optics or long wavelength NEBO-SVU Active Radar.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 02:44:02 AM by Numbers »
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Offline Numbers

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Re: Iran delivered "Sair" 100 mm automatic airdefence gun to IRGC
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2012, 04:27:17 AM »
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Quote from: Ich on February 12, 2012, 11:07:06 AM
Numbers, i found a pdf which describes it better then me  ;)
http://www.ndu.edu/press/lib/images/jfq-55/22.pdf


Thank you. I have read it. Below is what that article implies. Plus facts from new weapon's development.

1) Only FM radio, Television and HD Television transmitters' signals can be bounced off Stealth Aircraft and detected by Passive Radar.

In empty desert and jungle areas and in case of switching off Television transmitters Passive Radar does not receive any signal.

2) "Triangulation" is an old concept to detect Stealth Aircraft when it flies into triangle of normal Radars. From some angles Stealth Aircraft reflects signal back to Active Radar.

3) Both "Triangulation" and Passive Radars are not necessary due to presence of NEBO-SVU (long wavelength Radar) and Electro Optical sensors (such as Nightvision and Infrared).

4) Passive Radar on its own (without regional FM Radio and HD Television signals) can not detect Stealth Aircraft since Stealth Aircraft flies over enemy's territory with its Radio and Radar switched off (real life fact).
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 04:38:16 AM by Numbers »
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Offline Ich

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Re: Iran delivered "Sair" 100 mm automatic airdefence gun to IRGC
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2012, 08:52:29 AM »
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Quote from: Numbers on February 13, 2012, 04:27:17 AM
Thank you. I have read it. Below is what that article implies. Plus facts from new weapon's development.

1) Only FM radio, Television and HD Television transmitters' signals can be bounced off Stealth Aircraft and detected by Passive Radar.

In empty desert and jungle areas and in case of switching off Television transmitters Passive Radar does not receive any signal.

You can use any signal from anywhere. E.g. in private you can build your own passive radar with two cellphones, a pc and software which is downloadable on some sites. The signalsources in the pdf are only examples. Also electromagnetic waves are "endless", only the signalstrength lowers over the distance. So you can take also radiosignals from other countries.


Quote from: Numbers on February 13, 2012, 04:27:17 AM
2) "Triangulation" is an old concept to detect Stealth Aircraft when it flies into triangle of normal Radars. From some angles Stealth Aircraft reflects signal back to Active Radar.

The wheel is also an old invention.

Quote from: Numbers on February 13, 2012, 04:27:17 AM
3) Both "Triangulation" and Passive Radars are not necessary due to presence of NEBO-SVU (long wavelength Radar) and Electro Optical sensors (such as Nightvision and Infrared).

But NEBO is activ and so easy to find and easy to destroy for enemy.

Quote from: Numbers on February 13, 2012, 04:27:17 AM
4) Passive Radar on its own (without regional FM Radio and HD Television signals) can not detect Stealth Aircraft since Stealth Aircraft flies over enemy's territory with its Radio and Radar switched off (real life fact).

It doesnt matter if stealth has switched on or switched of something. Even if stealth is out of wood and has no electronic on board it disturbes the signals and can be detected. With passiv radar you can also track humans - and im sure humans have their radios and radars switched of ;)

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Offline jfb

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Iran delivered "Sair" 100 mm automatic airdefence gun to IRGC
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2012, 12:48:43 AM »
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I'm curious to know the accuracy of the fire control radar, it's probably the most important feature. Some Chinese radars are supposed to have an error margin of 1 mRad, which gives about 70 cm of error (for the altitude) 5 km away with an angle of 30 degrees. Dust and pollution can reduce the accuracy but there seems to be no claim regarding the accuracy of the fire control radar.
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Offline Numbers

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Re: Iran delivered "Sair" 100 mm automatic airdefence gun to IRGC
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2012, 01:40:12 AM »
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Quote from: Ich on February 13, 2012, 08:52:29 AM
You can use any signal from anywhere. Also electromagnetic waves are "endless", only the signalstrength lowers over the distance. So you can take also radiosignals from other countries.

Correct. Except in some desert and jungle areas FM and TV signal strength is low or totally absent.
Also FM and TV signals can be switched off during war.

Also you need only 1 NEBO-SVU to detect Stealth. While you need 100 of Passive Radars that use "Triangulation" to detect Stealth.

Since 1 Passive Radar can be positioned by mistake in front of approaching Stealth Aircraft (since direction of Stealth Aircraft approach is unknown) and receive no signal (Stealth Aircraft will reflect TV signal to the side).

You need "triangulation" and that means 100 of Passive Radars distributed in triangular pattern over large territory.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 01:48:43 AM by Numbers »
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