Author Topic: Iran Hails Transforming Russian S-200 (Read 3904 times)

Mr-Babak-S · « **on:** July 12, 2011, 04:03:59 PM »

The Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) says Iran has managed to upgrade the Russian-made long-range S-200 air defense system into an entirely new apparatus.

IRGC Air Defense Commander Brigadier General Farzad Esmaili said Iran has introduced such wholesale enhancements into the system that it can be assigned a new name, Fars News Agency reported on Tuesday.

He said the system has been wholly optimized that its configuration totally differs from what the Russians had designed.

“Of course, the changes have also received the confirmation and commendation of the [Russian] manufacturers of the system,” Esmaili said.

Russia was also scheduled to provide Iran with at least five S-300 defense systems, but backtracked on the deal in 2010.

Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev issued a decree in September 2010, prohibiting the expected delivery of the S-300 air defense system to the Islamic Republic under the pretext of a US-engineered UN sanctions resolution imposed against Iran over its nuclear program.

Iran has repeatedly refuted Western allegations that the Islamic Republic might have military objectives in its nuclear program.

Iran insists that as a member of the IAEA and a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, it has a right to use the peaceful applications of nuclear energy for electricity generation and medical research.

Tehran has also criticized Russia, arguing that the UN Resolution1929 does not justify Moscow's refusal to commit to the S-300 deal as it does not specifically ban the delivery of the defense system to Tehran.

aryana · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:42:31 PM »

any pictures?

aryana · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:43:17 PM »

Commander: Russians Stunned by Iranian Version of S-200 Air Defense System

TEHRAN (FNA)- A senior Iranian military commander said that the country's experts have been able to optimize the Russian-made S-200 anti-aircraft missile system so well that the Iranian version of the system has stunned Russian experts.

Speaking to FNA on Tuesday, Commander of Khatam ol-Anbia Air Defense Base Brigadier General Farzad Esmayeeli said that Iran's air defense specialists have been able to optimize the S-200 surface-to-air missile system to a remarkable extent and Iran plans to change the system's name due to the profound changes it has made in the system.

"These changes have been acknowledged and praised by those who have developed the system (Russians),"the commander stated, adding that the features of the Iranian version of the system are basically different from those of the Russian type.

Meantime, Esmayeeli pointed to the country's radar power, and stated that the Iranian air-defense unit owns systems that can easily monitor and trace all radar-evading and stealth aircrafts.

He noted that Iran's radar capability was proved during the military drills conducted in the last Iranian year (ended on March 20, 2011) when Iran warned two US spy planes which wanted to near the Iranian borders.

In November 2010, Iran successfully test-fired its sophisticated S-200 anti-aircraft missile systems.

Iran's S-200 system is a very long range, medium-to-high altitude surface-to-air missile (SAM) system designed to defend large areas from bomber attack or other strategic aircrafts. Each battalion has 6 single-rail missile launchers and fire control radar. It can be linked to other, longer-range radar systems.

Each missile is launched by 4 solid-fueled strap-on rocket boosters. Maximum range is between 200 and 350 km depending on the model. The missile uses radio illumination mid-course correction to fly towards the target with a terminal semi active radar homing phase.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9004213282

M-ATF · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:39:07 AM »

In original persian language report, Esma'eili indicated to using "Phased Array" radars for detecting and tracking stealth aircrafts.

نسخه چاپي ارسال به دوستان
امير اسماعيلي در گفت‌وگو با فارس عنوان كرد؛
شگفتي روس‌ها از ارتقاي سامانه موشكي اس200 در ايران

خبرگزاري فارس: فرمانده پدافند هوايي خاتم الانبياء(ص) با اشاره به بهينه‌سازي تمامي سامانه‌هاي موشك اس200 توسط متخصصان داخلي گفت: اين تغييرات مورد تأييد و تحسين سازندگان اين سيستم نيز قرار گرفته و شايد ما به‌زودي حتي نام اين سيستم را هم تغيير دهيم.

امير فرزاد اسماعيلي فرمانده قرارگاه پدافندهوايي خاتم‌الانبياء(ص) در گفت‌وگو با خبرنگار دفاعي خبرگزاري فارس، با اشاره به توانمندي‌هاي روزافزون اين قرارگاه در دستيابي به فناوري‌هاي موشكي، به موضوع بهينه‌سازي سامانه موشكي برد بلند اس200 اشاره كرد و گفت: اين ارتقا و بهينه‌سازي به قدري است كه مي‌توان اعلام كرد ما به‌زودي حتي نام اين سامانه را هم تغيير خواهيم داد.

اسماعيلي با بيان اينكه صفر تا صد اين سيستم طوري بهينه شده كه اصلا شاكله آن با آنچه روس‌ها طراحي كرده بودند كاملا فرق مي‌كند، اظهار داشت: البته اين تغييرات مورد تأييد و تحسين سازندگان اين سيستم نيز قرار گرفته است.

وي با اشاره به اينكه: "ما امروز به جايي رسيديم كه مي توانيم از اين سامانه پدافندي برد بلند و منحصر به فرد به شايستگي استفاده كنيم "، افزود: استفاده از سامانه‌هاي دفاع هوايي براي ما به‌مثابه بازي شطرنج است كه 32 مهره داشته و خانه‌هاي هشت در هشت آن هيچ وقت كم و زياد نمي‌شود و اين تدبير بازي‌كننده است كه برنده و بازنده را مشخص مي‌كند.

* مدرن‌ترين رادارهاي ايران در كمين پرنده‌هاي رادارگريز

فرمانده قرارگاه پدافند هوايي خاتم‌الانبياء(ص) همچنين درخصوص توانمندي‌هاي راداري و كشف پرنده‌هاي رادارگريز، گفت: همين امروز ما سيستم‌هايي داريم كه هواپيماهاي رادارگريز را به‌راحتي مي‌توانيم ثبت و ضبط و مسير و رفتار حركتشان را به‌خوبي رصد كنيم.

اسماعيلي به رزمايش سال گذشته ارتش اشاره و خاطرنشان كرد: در رزمايش ولايت 89 با اخطار به دو هواپيماي جاسوسي امريكا كه قصد نزديك شدن به مرزهاي كشورمان را داشتند، اين امر را اثبات كرديم.

وي همچنين به موضوع به‌كارگيري رادارهاي مدرن "آرايه فازي " براي كشف پرنده‌هاي رادارگريز اشاره كرد و افزود: با استفاده از توانمندي دانشگاه‌ها و صنعت، ما مي‌توانيم به‌خوبي از رادارهاي با المان‌هاي آرايه فازي استفاده كنيم كه در اين زمينه به دستاوردهاي خوبي هم رسيده‌ايم.

* پوشش تمامي نقاط كور كشور با رادارها و سامانه‌هاي ديده‌باني ثابت و متحرك

فرمانده قرارگاه پدافند هوايي خاتم‌الانبياء(ص) در ادامه درخصوص رفع فضاها و نقاط كور كشور نيز تصريح كرد: ما كشور خودمان را بيشتر از هركسي مي‌شناسيم و اگر در گذشته تنها از رادارهاي ثابت استفاده مي‌شد، اما امروز با استفاده از سامانه‌هاي ديده‌باني ثابت و متحرك و نيز رادارهاي متحرك تمامي نقاط كشور را تحت پوشش داريم و البته در اين زمينه تمامي نيروهاي مسلح فعاليت دارند چراكه رهبر معظم انقلاب پدافند را اولويت اول كشور مي‌دانند.

http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9004170311

Aspahbod · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2011, 03:20:25 PM »

They are stuck to S-200 just as IKCO is stuck to Peugeot 405 and Samand.

aryana · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2011, 03:22:17 PM »

Quote from: Aspahbod on July 13, 2011, 03:20:25 PM

They are stuck to S-200 just as IKCO is stuck to Peugeot 405 and Samand.

s-200 is good.

Aspahbod · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:02:06 PM »

Quote from: aryana on July 13, 2011, 03:22:17 PM

s-200 is good.

Of course. It is the only SAM Iran has that can't hit even a F-4.

Nonbarbari · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:23:48 PM »

Quote from: Aspahbod on July 13, 2011, 05:02:06 PM

Of course. It is the only SAM Iran has that can't hit even a F-4.

lool

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2011, 09:27:19 PM »

Indeed the S-200 missile itself is far too large to be able hit a fighter/strike aircraft. Which makes sense since that wasn't what it was designed for in the first place.

So more than likely this upgrade involves either giving the S-200 an improved seeker, new support equipment (such as a new radar), or a self-propelled launcher of some sort..Or any combination of these things.

Likely these upgrades are meant to make the S-200 system more survivable in modern combat, especially after we saw how easily Libya's unmodified S-200 sites were taken out months ago. Currently, the only way to prevent a similar destruction of S-200 sites in Iran is by protecting each S-200 site with SHORAD which takes up extra resources that could be used elsewhere.

farbod · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2011, 09:29:55 PM »

Wouldnt the s-200 be used for targets like b-2 spirit?

aryana · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2011, 09:36:35 PM »

Quote from: farbod on July 13, 2011, 09:29:55 PM

Wouldnt the s-200 be used for targets like b-2 spirit?

no it cant target them.

farbod · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2011, 09:39:46 PM »

I though iran had the capability to detect them..

aryana · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2011, 09:44:40 PM »

Quote from: farbod on July 13, 2011, 09:39:46 PM

I though iran had the capability to detect them..

no one has. but russia going to have it in 5 to 10 years,

farbod · « **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2011, 09:46:59 PM »

Quote from: aryana on July 13, 2011, 09:44:40 PM

no one has. but russia going to have it in 5 to 10 years,

Damn..those will certainly be used if they try to bomb iran, but then again i am sure iran is well aware of that and are hopefully looking for a solution

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2011, 10:00:45 PM »

The S-200 wasn't designed to take out the B-2 since it existed about 20 years before the B-2 flew. The S-200 was designed to hit slow moving, non-maneuverable targets like AWACs, Tankers, etc.

Now in theory, if you link an S-200 to the right kind of radar(s) and give the S-200 a new seeker than in theory you could try to target a B-2 but that's a lot of "ifs".

The problem is B-2s are tricky to track because unlike other Stealth aircraft, they are not as vunerable to Low-Band radars like the NEBO. A combination of a powerful Low-band radar and a powerful Phased Array radar would be need to linked together with the S-200 to make such a system work. This may well be what Iran is aiming to do in the near future.

mamdali · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2011, 12:26:40 AM »

Hmmm, it seems Eagle has implicitly concluded that Iran's improved s-200 system has abolutely no use at all (aside from some farfetched chain of 'ifs' and some dubious notion of purposeless 'survivability' (??)) and Iran has invested time and money to create a useless weapons system.

I see.

Mamdali

maydayfire · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2011, 01:01:14 AM »

Mamdali:
How would one identify an expert from an armchair expert? When speculations and assumptions rise based on little to no existing information, evidence or logic.

mamdali · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:42:18 AM »

Quote from: maydayfire on July 14, 2011, 01:01:14 AM

Mamdali:
How would one identify an expert from an armchair expert? When speculations and assumptions rise based on little to no existing information, evidence or logic.

. maydayfire-jan, I can't agree more. But even conjecture comes in at least two flavors: what can't be done (which we've seen abundantly unfortunately) and what CAN be done (where the real meat and creativity is).

Mamdali

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2011, 04:38:15 AM »

An unmodified or un-upgraded S-200 system is largely worthless except forcing the enemy's tankers to operate at farther distances than they would prefer. However with a few improvements to either the seeker, fire control radar, and/or mobility the S-200's lethality could be broadened to a wider range of targets (including theoretically B-2s, UCAVs, ELINT, SIGNIT, Maritime Patrol aircraft).

Specifically, to upgrade it to take out a B-2, we know Iran already has a Low-band radar for integration and it's possible they have a powerful and mobile enough Phased Array radar (assuming Iran has or is working on a clone of the Tombstone radar). They would then need to give the S-200 an improved guidance system (perhaps using the experience gained from the Shahin SAM). Then link the two new radars to the improved missiles and you have at least in theory a potential "B-2 Killer". I only say "in theory" because unlike the F-117, a B-2 has never be shot down in combat so we can only guestimate what kind of upgrades would need to be made to take one out.

So, as I stated earlier, it's likely Iran's reported upgrade involves at least one if not all of the possible generic improvements. IMO mobility should be the priority upgrade since S-200 sites are fairly extensive in size and are completely immobile which requires you to devote additional resources (such as AA guns or Short Range SAMs) to protect the site from cruise missile strikes.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2011, 04:52:02 AM »

And there's nothing dubious about my statements on Survivability. All modern SAMs are designed to be mobile because the threats to the SAM system itself have grown over the years. Therefore the more mobile a SAM is, the more survivable it is on the battlefield.

Because the S-200 was designed in the 1960's, mobility was not seen as an important factor because the missile's range and because the only real threat to a S-200 site were combat aircraft directly attacking the site which because of where the S-200 sites were placed any enemy aircraft trying to take out a S-200 site would have to "run the gautlet" of AA, SAMs, and interceptors first. However today cruise missiles (both air and sea launched) are a more cost-effective way of talking a SAM site like the S-200. This is partially because a S-200 site is very large and every visible from satellite images and therefore you can't "hide" such a site very easily.

Of course cruise missiles are still vunerable to SHORAD that they will likely encounter before hitting the S-200 site, but because of the number of missiles likely fired at the target they are fairly assured they will hit the target. It is therefore much more cost-effective then using aircraft fitted with ARMs to take out the site as was done in the past.

Therefore, if you could somehow make the S-200 missile itself more mobile, such as a tracked TEL, you greatly increase the system's survivability since it won't be so easy to track and target as a basic S-200 site is.

wisdom · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2011, 05:48:27 AM »

Quote from: mamdali on July 14, 2011, 12:26:40 AM

Hmmm, it seems Eagle has implicitly concluded that Iran's improved s-200 system has abolutely no use at all (aside from some farfetched chain of 'ifs' and some dubious notion of purposeless 'survivability' (??)) and Iran has invested time and money to create a useless weapons system.

I see.

Mamdali

Lol...that was my thought exactly

parthenon · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2011, 09:56:36 AM »

Quote

E2k9:"if you could somehow make the S-200 missile itself more mobile, ..., you greatly increase the system's survivability"

<bunker-alert usr=E2k9>

...or you could have some spare ones hidden in a BUNKER complex, ready to be hauled out when needed.

</bunker-alert>

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 15, 2011, 05:21:19 AM »

Parthenon,

The main problem I have with that is putting the missiles in bunkers leaves the radars exposed. The radars you would likely need to link to an upgraded S-200 to take out a stealth aircraft can't be kept in bunkers like the missiles and that means the radars are completely exposed to Anti-Radiation missiles and without their radars the missiles are worthless.

Now a Tombstone-like radar could be put in some sort of retractable bunker, the low-band radar needed for such an upgrade would be far too large and bunker to be readily moved into and out of a bunker. Then again Low-band radars in general are problematic for that very reason, their breakdown and set-up times are fairly long for radars because of their size.

So I supposed that is another solution but personally I think making the system more mobile would be a better option, or perhaps a combination of both by reinforces current S-200 sites and creating a small batch of tracked TELs.

parthenon · « **Reply #23 on:** July 15, 2011, 01:53:36 PM »

Eagle2009,

Thank you for your response.

I agree that because of their size Low Band radar systems would be the most vulnerable of all.

reza18 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 19, 2011, 10:21:36 AM »

Quote

because unlike the F-117, a B-2 has never be shot down in combat

..Maybe that's because they fly in places like Afghanistan where the Taliban don't even know what a radar is let alone operate one or Libya where they virtually have no army to speak off or Iraq where Saddam's army was in a very bad shape, under resourced and don't make their own equipment after years of sanctions.

Why do you think the US like to pick on weaker countries, Eagle jan? Heck, the Vietnamese did a pretty good job at shooting down many US fighter jets and bombers..