Author Topic: Iran Military Downs US Spy Drone (Read 13124 times)

Catsoo · « **Reply #50 on:** December 05, 2011, 03:39:44 AM »

Iran claims to have brought down U.S. spy drone; U.S.-led forces say UAV went missing in western Afghanistan

By Laura Rozen | The Envoy – 7 hrs ago

The United States on Sunday appeared to give credence to Iranian state media reports that Iran had come into possession of a downed U.S. surveillance drone.

The American-led International Security Assistance Forces (ISAF) in Afghanistan issued a brief statement Sunday saying that an unarmed U.S. reconnaissance aircraft had gone missing while on a mission in western Afghanistan late last week.

"The UAV [unmanned aerial vehicle] to which the Iranians are referring may be a U.S. unarmed reconnaissance aircraft that had been flying a mission over western Afghanistan last week," the ISAF public affairs office said in the statement sent to Yahoo News and other media outlets Sunday, in response to queries on the Iranian reports. "The operators of the UAV lost control of the aircraft and had been working to determine its status."

The semi-official Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA) reported Sunday that Iran's armed forces had brought down a U.S. spy drone in the east of the country.

Citing an "informed military official" the IRNA report "noted that the unmanned craft is of the type 'RQ170,' which was slightly damaged [and] is currently in the hands of the Iranian forces."

While the IRNA headline described the U.S. spy drone as having been "shot down," an Iranian military official quoted on Iranian state television claimed that an Iranian military cyber-warfare unit "managed to take over controls of the drone and bring it down," the Washington Post's Thomas Erdbrink noted. That latter account would seem to be more in line with the description given by ISAF of the spy drone operators having "lost control" of it in western Afghanistan last week.

American officials disputed that the drone had been shot down. One unidentified U.S. official told the Wall Street Journal the drone may have been suffering mechanical difficulties.

However, there have been previous reported incidents that have highlighted vulnerabilities in the security of U.S. drone information systems.

The United States Air Force acknowledged in October that a computer virus had infected the computer system at Creech Air Force base in Nevada that is used to remotely operate Predator and Reaper drones. In 2009, an Iraqi insurgent hacked into a U.S. drone down-link, which is not usually encrypted, cyber security expert James Lewis, a former Reagan administration official with the Center for Strategic and Institutional Studies, told Yahoo News last month.

"Militants in Iraq have used $26 off-the-shelf software to intercept live video feeds from U.S. Predator drones, potentially providing them with information they need to evade or monitor U.S. military operations," the Wall Street Journal's Siobhan Gorman, Yochi Dreazen and August Cole reported in December 2009.

"Senior defense and intelligence officials said Iranian-backed insurgents intercepted the video feeds by taking advantage of an unprotected communications link in some of the remotely flown planes' systems," the Journal report said. "Shiite fighters in Iraq used software programs such as SkyGrabber -- available for as little as $25.95 on the Internet -- to regularly capture drone video feeds, according to a person familiar with reports on the matter."

The unarmed stealth drone Iran claims to have brought down, the RQ-170 Sentinel, is manufactured by Lockheed Martin's Advanced Development Program, based in Palmdale, California.

Until 2009, the U.S. Air Force would say little about the model, despite reported sightings of it on the tarmac at Kandahar International Airport, Afghanistan since 2007. A December 2009 photo of the RQ-170 posted on aviation websites, however, prompted the Air Force to at least acknowledge the plane's existence, Military Times' Michael Hoffman reported in 2009:

"For two years, the RQ-170 has been the Air Force's Bigfoot," Hoffman wrote. "Photos and drawings of the stealthy UAV, also called the 'Beast of Kandahar,' have surfaced, producing shrugs and no-comments from service officials. In early December, a clear photograph of the jet's left side appeared on aviation Web sites, perhaps prompting the Air Force to 'fess up."

However, Air Force officials have not explained what the stealth aircraft is doing in Afghanistan given the fact that the Taliban has no air force or radar, Hoffman noted.

"Experts such as Phil Finnegan, a UAV analyst at the Teal Group, an aerospace consulting firm, suggest the stealth capabilities are being used to fly in nearby countries," Hoffman wrote. "Neighboring Iran has an air force and air defense system that would require stealth technology to penetrate."

The RQ-170 was also reportedly used in U.S. surveillance surrounding the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, Pakistan last May.

The RQ-170 reportedly does not use the most sophisticated U.S. military technology because as a single engine UAV, it was judged to have a higher likelihood of occasionally going down.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/isaf-u-spy-drone-iran-claims-brought-down-195224233.html

Catsoo · « **Reply #51 on:** December 05, 2011, 03:53:42 AM »

RQ-170 Info:

http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=16001\

Catsoo

Catsoo · « **Reply #52 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:42:36 AM »

Did Iran Capture a U.S. Stealth Drone Intact?

For the second time this year, the Iranian government is claiming it forced down a stealthy U.S. Air Force spy drone. Only this time, Iran says it bagged the RQ-170 “with little damage” by jamming its control signal — a potentially worrying development for American forces heavily reliant on remote-controlled aircraft.

There are good reasons to question Iran’s story — or at least parts of it. For starters, the earlier claim of a drone shoot-down proved false. Why would this announcement be any more credible? Also, for most U.S. unmanned aircraft, merely jamming the control signal won’t bring them down. Some don’t have control signals at all.

The wedge-shaped RQ-170, built in small numbers by Lockheed Martin, was a secret until reporters photographed it at Kandahar Air Field in southern Afghanistan in 2007, as seen above. The Air Force copped to its existence two years later. The RQ-170, nicknamed “Beast of Kandahar” by aviation journalist Bill Sweetman, has since been spotted in South Korea and also played a role in the raid to kill Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan in May.

Analysts says the RQ-170 could scout out Iran’s and North Korea’s nuclear facilities. With the U.S. and Israel threatening to attack Tehran’s nuke sites to prevent the regime from gaining nuclear weapons, reports of RQ-170s flying over Iran should not shock anyone.

Still, the shoot-down claim, published today by the official Islamic Republic News Agency and echoed by Iran’s Press TV, should be taken with a giant grain of salt.

Iran frequently announces it has shot down U.S. surveillance drones, but has not, to our knowledge, produced any evidence of the kills. Even if Tehran did bag itself an American war ‘bot, it might not be an RQ-170. The editors at Press TV undermined their credibility by running the story with a photo of an entirely different drone than the Beast of Kandahar.

Equally dubious is Iran’s insistence that the RQ-170, if that’s what it is, was forced down largely intact by an Iranian army “electronic-warfare unit.” The implication is that the Iranians somehow jammed the command signal beamed to the drone by remote operators.

That’s a pretty big deal, if true. The Predator and Reaper, America’s most numerous attack and surveillance drones, are remotely-controlled via radio link by a pilot on the ground. If the link is broken, they’re designed to enter a holding pattern or even return home. But these failsafes aren’t perfect, as the Air Force discovered in 2009 when a Reaper drone went haywire and had to be shot down by an F-15. The Air Force and Navy have admitted that the control link represents a critical weakness and have worked hard to make drones more autonomous.

Serious, widespread autonomy is for the next generation of drones. Most of today’s Unmanned Aerial Vehicles can probably be jammed, but before now no one has succeeded in actually doing it — again, if Iran’s claims are true.

But even if Iran did force down an American drone, it’s unlikely it was an RQ-170. The Beast of Kandahar probably navigates autonomously, like Northrop Grumman’s Global Hawk does — in contrast to the less sophisticated, remote-controlled Predators and Reapers. NATO acknowledged losing a UAV in western Afghanistan last week. “The operators of the UAV lost control of the aircraft and had been working to determine its status,” NATO explained in a press release.

That the operators “lost control” indicates the drone in question was not an RQ-170. And NATO losing a robot is not the same as Iran possessing it intact.

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superalien4peace Collapse
Actually Iranians had from the beginning said that they brought down the plane by hacking into its control link. Then came US confirmation of a lost drone without specifying type and also that there was not fire incident. So, there are now two possibilities, crash or hack. Since as per Pentagon it happened a week ago, and as per Iranians just hours ago, some one is lying here. Iranians were the first to disclose it so they get the score there. US only responded several hours later.

And there is more, here on wired, there were two articles a while back. One was about a virus that had infiltrated the control systems of the US drones. And the other article was about DARPA working hard to make that virus go away. Then this happens. You can draw your own conclusions. But these are not random events, since never till now a drone has gone haywire and into an adversaries airport. Drones might be stupid but they are not traitors by default settings that is. But those settings now seem to be edited and saved. Also why the RQ-170 would go haywire in Iran and not in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Korea or many other places it goes around. Why in Iran, the country that has the world's fastest growth rate in science and technology as per US government report "Science and engineering indicators: 2010"?

Paul Lucero

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I went to school with a lot of those guys. They are very GOOD engineers! American breaks laws of International conduct and Wired is telling the story froma Tech angle.

Anon

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"American breaks laws of International conduct and Wired is telling the story froma Tech angle.

SAD!"

There's no proof that the US violated Iranian air space, let alone that Iran brought down any US drone, and yet the only thing you want to do is use this article to bash the US.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/did-iran-capture-a-u-s-stealth-drone-intact/

Catsoo · « **Reply #53 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:50:43 AM »

U.S. official says no sign Iran shot down drone

By Parisa Hafezi, Reuters

TEHRAN - Iranian media reported on Sunday that their country's military had shot down a U.S. reconnaissance drone in eastern Iran, but a U.S. official said there was no indication the aircraft had been shot down.

NATO's U.S.-led mission in neighbouring Afghanistan said the Iranian report could refer to an unarmed U.S. spy drone that went missing there last week.

The incident comes at a time when Tehran is trying to contain foreign outrage at the storming of the British embassy on Tuesday, after London announced sanctions on Iran's central bank in connection with Iran's nuclear enrichment programme.

Iran has announced several times in the past that it shot down U.S., Israeli or British drones, in incidents that did not provoke high-profile responses.

"Iran's military has downed an intruding RQ-170 American drone in eastern Iran," Iran's Arabic-language Al Alam state television network quoted a military source as saying.

"The spy drone, which has been downed with little damage, was seized by the Iranian armed forces," the source said. "The Iranian military's response to the American spy drone's violation of our airspace will not be limited to Iran's borders."

Iranian officials were not available to comment further.

NATO's International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan said in a statement: "The UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) to which the Iranians are referring may be a U.S. unarmed reconnaissance aircraft that had been flying a mission over western Afghanistan late last week.

"The operators of the UAV lost control of the aircraft and had been working to determine its status."

A U.S. official, who asked not to be named, said: "There is absolutely no indication up to this point that Iranians shot down this drone."

ISOLATION

Tuesday's storming of the British embassy attracted swift condemnation from around the world, further isolating Iran.

Britain evacuated its diplomatic staff from Tehran and expelled Iranian diplomats from London in retaliation. Several other EU members like Germany, France and Spain also recalled their ambassadors from Tehran.

The United States and Israel have not ruled out military action against Iran's nuclear facilities if diplomacy fails to resolve a dispute over a programme they suspect is aimed at developing atomic weapons. Iran says it would respond to any strike by attacking Israel and U.S. interests in the Gulf.

In January Iran said it shot down two unmanned Western reconnaissance drones in the Gulf. In July Iran said it had shot down an unmanned U.S. spy plane over the holy city of Qom, near its Fordu nuclear site.

Western nations on Thursday significantly tightened sanctions against Iran, with the European Union expanding an Iranian blacklist and the U.S. Senate passing a measure that could severely disrupt Iran's oil income.

Iran warned the West on Sunday any move to block its oil exports would more than double crude prices with devastating consequences on a fragile global economy.

"As soon as such an issue is raised seriously the oil price would soar to above $250 a barrel," Foreign Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast told the Sharq newspaper.

So far neither Washington nor Brussels has finalised a move against Iran's oil trade or its central bank. Crude prices were pushed up over the British embassy storming with ICE Brent January crude up 95 cents on Friday to settle at $109.94 a barrel.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2011/12/04/19067866.html

M-ATF · « **Reply #54 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:55:33 AM »

have Iranian downed RQ-170 by this system :?

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معاون قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیا:
سامانه‌ فريب و هدايت موشكهاي دشمن به‌زودي عملياتي مي‌شود
[/b]
با ایجاد اختلال در منبع اصلی دریافت امواج موشکهای مهاجم می‌توانیم اطلاعات مورد نظر خودمان را برای آن تعریف کنیم تا مسیر موشک به سمت نقطه دلخواه ما تغییر ‌پیدا کند.
معاون قرارگاه پدافند هوایی با اشاره به یکی از دستاوردهای مهم این قرارگاه در عرصه مقابله با موشک های مهاجم گفت: «با ایجاد اختلال در منبع دریافت اطلاعات موشک می توانیم آن را به سمت نقطه دلخواه خود هدایت کنیم.»

به گزارش گرداب، سرهنگ "محرم قلی‌‌زاده"، معاون جنگ الکترونیک قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیا‌صلوات‌الله‌علیه در تبیین مسئولیت این معاونت و تشریح جنگ الکترونیک گفت: «مجموعه مدیریت بر امواج الکترومغناطیس مهمترین وظیفه جنگ الکترونیک است که طی آن هر کدام از طرفین جنگ بتوانند مدیریت و اشراف بهتری بر طیف امواج الکترومغناطیس داشته باشند و در نهایت پیروز میدان نبرد خواهند بود.»

قلی‌زاده افزود: «این مدیریت بر امواج الکترومغناطیس در 3 محور اصلی حمله الکترونیک، دفاع الکترونیک و پشتیبانی الکترونیک مطرح می‌شود که حمله الکترونیک به مجموعه اقداماتی گفته می‌شود که می‌توان از طریق آنها با سامانه‌های مهاجم دشمن چه موشکی، چه هواپیمای بدون سرنشین و چه سامانه‌های مکان‌یاب مقابله کرد که در این حوزه، پدافند هوایی کشور با کمک دانشگاه‌ها، مراکز علمی و صنایع بومی اقدامات خوبی انجام داده است.»

وی ادامه داد:‌ «در حوزه دفاع الکترونیک نیز باید سامانه‌های پدافندی طوری تجهیز شوند که بیشترین پایداری را در محیط‌های جنگ الکترونیک داشته باشند چرا که در هنگامه این نبرد تنها چیزی که شلیک می شود، امواج الکترومغناطیس است و عمل نکردن دستگاه‌ها حتی برای چند دقیقه می‌تواند خسارت‌های جبران‌ناپذیری به بار آورد.»

معاون جنگ الکترونیک قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیا با اشاره به جنگ دوم عراق اظهار داشت: «نیروهای آمریکایی در این جنگ با استفاده از همین امواج الکترومغناطیس بود که توانستند سامانه‌های گیرنده عراق را از کار انداخته و از این طریق به اهداف خود برسند.»

قلی‌زاده افزود: «در حوزه دفاع الکترونیک باید سامانه‌های ما از قبیل سامانه‌های پدافندی و راداری آنقدر مجهز باشند که بتوانند با حملات الکترونیک دشمن بهترین مقابله را داشته باشند.»

وی در خصوص حوزه سوم یعنی پشتیبانی الکترونیکی نیز اظهار داشت: «این حوزه شامل شناسایی تمام فرکانس‌هایی است که در مناطق صفر مرزی و یا فراتر از مرزها وجود دارند که باتوجه به سامانه‌های بومی و پیشرفته در پدافند هوایی می‌توانیم به خوبی این فرکانسها و تحرکات ناشی از سامانه‌های دشمن در نقاط صفر مرزی و فراتر از آن را شناسایی و برای مقابله با آنها برنامه‌ریزی کنیم.»

معاون جنگ الکترونیک قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیاصلوات‌الله‌علیه با اشاره به تلاش دشمن برای استفاده از سامانه‌هایی نظیر هواپیماهای بدون سرنشین برای شناسایی مناطق حساس کشورمان تأکید کرد: «تمام تحرکات این هواپیماها در کنترل ما بوده و با استفاده از سامانه‌های اخلالگر می‌توانیم علاوه بر ایجاد اختلال در عملکرد آنها در مسائلی مانند نقشه‌برداری و شناسایی، صدمات فیزیکی نیز به آنها وارد کنیم که این امر در دستور دائمی قرارگاه پدافند هوایی قرار دارد.»

قلی‌زاده با اشاره به استقرار کامل سامانه‌های پدافند هوایی در سرتاسر مرزهای کشور مأموریت اصلی آنها را شناسایی، رهگیری و انهدام تمامی پرنده‌های ناشناسی دانست که قصد ورود به فضای کشور را دارند و گفت:‌ «در این حوزه، سامانه‌های راداری اکتیو و پسیو ما به طور دائم مشغول انجام مأموریت هستند.»

وی به نقش اخلالگرها در میدان نبرد الکترونیک اشاره کرد و گفت: «زمانی که یک موشک فرمان‌پذیر از سوی دشمن شلیک می‌شود نمی‌توان با سامانه‌های اخلالگر آن را نابود کرد بلکه می‌توان مسیر آن را به نحوی منحرف کرد که خاصیت نقطه‌زنی را از دست بدهد.»

معاون جنگ الکترونیک قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیا در این خصوص به یک دستاورد مهم اشاره کرد و افزود: «پروژه‌ای در دست داریم که در واقع یک قدم جلوتر از اخلال، یعنی "فریب" سامانه‌های مهاجم است.»

قلی‌‌زاده اضافه کرد: «در این مرحله با ایجاد اختلال در منبع اصلی دریافت امواج موشکهای مهاجم می‌توانیم اطلاعات مورد نظر خودمان را برای آن تعریف کنیم تا مسیر موشک به سمت نقطه دلخواه ما تغییر ‌پیدا کند.»

وی با بیان اینکه این سامانه پدافندی به زودی به سیستم پدافند هوایی کشور اضافه خواهد شد، افزود: «با این کار می‌توانیم علاوه بر عدم اصابت موشک به نقطه A کاری کنیم که موشک به سمت نقطه B که مدنظر ماست، اصابت کند.»

معاون جنگ الکترونیک قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیا در ادامه به اهمیت ایجاد امنیت در سامانه‌های ارتباطاتی اشاره کرد و گفت: ‌«برای این منظور چند لایه امن در نظر گرفته شده که هرکدام از این لایه‌ها می‌تواند به عنوان پشتیبان، در صورت از کار افتادن لایه‌ای دیگر، اقدام کند.»

قلی‌زاده ادامه داد:‌ «البته علاوه بر اینها ارتباطات زیرزمینی و فیبری نیز در دستور کار است که جزء لایه‌های بسیار امن و غیرقابل اختلال محسوب می‌شود و امروز سراسر میهن عزیزمان تحت پوشش فیبر نوری قرار دارد.»

وی در خصوص جدیدترین دستاوردهای پدافند هوایی، به ساخت شبیه‌ساز جنگ الکترونیک اشاره کرد و گفت: «این شبیه‌ساز که حاصل همکاری با صنایع داخلی کشور است، آمادگی افسران نگهداری و عملیاتی در محیط‌های جنگ الکترونیک در فضای مجازی را تقویت می‌کند که یکی از مهمترین دستاوردهای ما در خصوص شبیه‌سازی است.»

معاون جنگ الکترونیک قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیا افزود: «از دیگر دستاوردهای ما می‌توان به تستر سامانه‌های پدافندی در محیط‌های جنگ الکترونیک اشاره کرد که با استفاده از آن می‌توان به صورت میدانی یک شبکه جنگ الکترونیک ایجاد کرد تا بتوانیم از طریق آن میزان پایداری سامانه‌ها را ارزیابی کنیم.»

قلی‌زاده به ارتقاء سامانه‌های اخلالگر باندهای مختلف نیز به عنوان یکی دیگر از دستاوردهای پدافند هوایی اشاره کرد و افزود: «با این دستاوردها نه تنها ما در حوزه جنگ الکترونیک خودکفا شده‌ایم بلکه می‌توانیم با همت صنایع داخلی و تلاش متخصصان در حوزه پدافند هوایی بهترین تجهیزات را به بهترین نحو به کشورهای دیگر نیز صادر کنیم.»

وی با اشاره به همکاری مثبت و سازنده پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیا با دانشگاه‌ها، صنایع دفاعی و بخش خصوصی گفت: «در حوزه جنگ الکترونیک این همکاری‌ها به بهترین شکل ممکن در حال انجام است که از طریق آن به دستاوردهای بی‌نظیری در این حوزه دست یافته‌ایم.»

معاون جنگ الکترونیک قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیاصلوات‌الله‌علیه در خصوص چشم‌انداز این حوزه برای برنامه‌های آتی افزود: «ما قصد داریم تا تمامی تحرکات غیر بشری را از سطح زمین تا جایی که ماهواره‌ها حرکت می‌کنند، در فضای کشورمان کنترل کنیم که به زودی به این توانمندی دست پیدا خواهیم کرد.»

قلی‌زاده طیف فرکانس را مانند اوج پرواز دانست و تصریح کرد: «همانطور که هرچه ارتفاع پرواز بالاتر رود، اشراف به پایین بیشتر خواهد شد، در حوزه فرکانس نیز به همین صورت است و ما در حال حاضر تولیدات بومی خود را از نیم مگاهرتز تا 40مگاهرتز افزایش دادیم که در گذشته این میزان بسیار کمتر بود و ما برای آینده نیز مقادیر بسیار بالاتری را برنامه ریزی کرده‌ایم چرا که هرچه فرکانس ما بیشتر باشد قدرت مانور و بازیگردانی ما نیز افزایش خواهد یافت.»

وی در پایان موضوع جنگ الکترونیک را یک مبحث جوان و نوپا در نیروهای مسلح دانست و افزود: «طبیعتا وقتی موضوع استقلال مناطق پدافندی مطرح می‌شود این استقلال شامل حوزه جنگ الکترونیک نیز خواهد شد.»
معاون جنگ الکترونیک قرارگاه پدافند هوایی خاتم‌الانبیا گفت: «‌طبق برنامه‌ریزی‌های صورت گرفته، یگان‌های مستقل جنگ الکترونیک در مناطق پدافندی در حال شکل گیری است تا آنها نیز بتوانند به صورت مستقل با پدیده‌ها و تهدیدهای مختلف برخورد و مقابله کنند.»

http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13900608000748

M-ATF · « **Reply #55 on:** December 05, 2011, 05:05:59 AM »

According to above report one of the Khatam-Al-Anbia air-defence base commanders says we will unveil a deception and guidance system soon . He says by using this system we can disturb in information receiving source of guidance system of enemy missile,then we can define our desirable information for that missile and navigate it to desirable point defined by us.

M-ATF · « **Reply #56 on:** December 05, 2011, 05:40:22 AM »

American are focusing on these subject that Iran hasn't shot down our UAV's. But Iranian said that they have downed the drone, but some News Agencies don't realize difference of downing or shooting down so some of them reflect the report mistakenly.
Iranian also haven't announced any date for this story. They haven't said that we downed it yesterday or last week. Usually Iranian don't announce the report at the time.

Put together report of downing RQ-170 , report of downing an Israeli UAV by Hezbollah last week and report of making the system for taking over the control of guidance system of enemy missile. certainly it hasn't been just an incident

wisdom · « **Reply #57 on:** December 05, 2011, 05:56:28 AM »

These planes are used over Iran since no need for stealth high altitude plane in Afghanistan- they don't have radar or air defense. So no question it was lost over Iran. This got the radar signature of a duck and if it had just crashed in Iran, the Iranians would never know about it since Iran is huge and in the east it would have fallen in most likely an unpopulated area and never seen. If NATO lost this plane a week ago it could not have hovererd for one week since does not appear to have external reserve tanks- which would defeat the purpose of stealth. This plane is so advanced and secret that only photos in 2007 proved it's existence and it's technology is definitely something USA prefers to remain a secret. So if brought down or shot down or guided down, I would absolutely not show the pictures since America would be wondering what parts survived the crash and Iran does not want to give them confirmation. Definitely Iran did something to this plane since they knew it was rq-170 and NATO confirmed it. Unless they have a mole in the air operation arm of ISAF of NATO there is no way they would know NATO is missing an advance stealth UAV unless they (meaning Iran) are the ones that shot it down.

So I kind of agree with Reza18... But I'm open to what others think about it...

mamdali · « **Reply #58 on:** December 05, 2011, 07:08:18 AM »

One nagging question I have is what happened to the self-destruct sequence once the craft went rogue or got hacked or shot down? I thought not much of these things remain one way or another once they're lost. Any thoughts on this?

Mamdali

PERSPOLIS · « **Reply #59 on:** December 05, 2011, 08:26:14 AM »

best thing that could happen to deter usraeli attack on Iran .

M-ATF · « **Reply #60 on:** December 05, 2011, 08:39:17 AM »

It is said this UAV is equipped with an AESA radar.

maydayfire · « **Reply #61 on:** December 05, 2011, 08:45:14 AM »

Quote from: mamdali on December 05, 2011, 07:08:18 AM

One nagging question I have is what happened to the self-destruct sequence once the craft went rogue or got hacked or shot down? I thought not much of these things remain one way or another once they're lost. Any thoughts on this?

Mamdali

if the control of the drone was taken over by iranians it means the yanks had no control over it which means they couldn't send the signal to self destruct it even if it had a self destruct mechanism, but I highly doubt that these have a self destruct mechanism anyway and I think it is just a myth.

reza18 · « **Reply #62 on:** December 05, 2011, 08:57:51 AM »

Quote

"One nagging question I have is what happened to the self-destruct sequence once the craft went rogue or got hacked or shot down? I thought not much of these things remain one way or another once they're lost. Any thoughts on this?

Mamdali"

Mamdali, I think that self destruct thing is just a myth..Think about it, if there was a self destruct mechanism in it, they'll be loosing many drones to simple mechanical glitches. When drones fly they do, in fact, lose contact with their ground base control every now and then but contact is re-established after a while so having a self destruct mechanism that is supposed to destroy the drone when it loses contact will be counter productive as not all the loss of contact with the drone is permanent...Got my drift??

Unless, of course, the drone is purely designed to be "lost" and used as a sabotage weapon against the enemy...I don't know if I'm making sense or not..lol

M-ATF · « **Reply #63 on:** December 05, 2011, 11:44:16 AM »

Mashreghnews says it has been downed near the Kashmar (hasn't been confirmed officially)

http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/83159/%D8%A2%D8%B4%D9%86%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C-%D8%A8%D8%A7-%D9%BE%D9%87%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AF-%D9%BE%D9%86%D9%87%D8%A7%D9%86%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%A2%D9%85%D8%B1%DB%8C%DA%A9%D8%A7-%DA%A9%D9%87-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%82%D8%B7-%D8%B4%D8%AF-%D8%B9%DA%A9%D8%B3

Quote

هواپیمای بدون سرنشین RQ-170 آخرین محصول دفتر طراحی پیشرفته Skunk works از شرکت لاکهید مارتین است.پهبادی بدون سرنشین که بنا بر گزارشات واصله روز یکشنبه در اطراف کاشمر توسط یگان های پدافند هوایی ایران مورد اصابت قرار گرفته است.

parthenon · « **Reply #64 on:** December 05, 2011, 11:52:43 AM »

Quote

Quote
"I believe Ayyash used to post there!">

...and I still do

Sorry to see you're still posting here too.

OK, that was uncalled for... I'm an avid reader of your "Arkenstone" technology site actually!

russelsm · « **Reply #65 on:** December 05, 2011, 01:23:50 PM »

i think i started this thread once i noticed the news in Todays Zaman news site around 11pm India local time. Then there was no thread in Air defence section
under this subject. Has anyone merged the thread, i dont have any clue. Can anyone clarify the issue?

Catsoo · « **Reply #66 on:** December 05, 2011, 02:07:53 PM »

Russelsm;

Quote

i think i started this thread once i noticed the news in Todays Zaman news site around 11pm India local time. Then there was no thread in Air defence section
under this subject. Has anyone merged the thread, i dont have any clue. Can anyone clarify the issue?

There were three threads opened for this news, naturally I merged them all and moved the merged thread to this section!

Catsoo

russelsm · « **Reply #67 on:** December 05, 2011, 02:31:58 PM »

Quote from: Catsoo on December 05, 2011, 02:07:53 PM

Russelsm;

There were three threads opened for this news, naturally I merged them all and moved the merged thread to this section!

Catsoo

Thanks Catsoo for clarifications.

Catsoo · « **Reply #68 on:** December 05, 2011, 06:05:25 PM »

Finally comes the confirmation!

U.S. Military Sources: Iran Has Missing U.S. Drone

Published December 05, 2011

FILE: The RQ-170 Sentinel produced by Lockheed Martin. On Dec. 5, 2011, the U.S. military confirmed the spy drone was in the possession of the Iranian government, which claimed it shot it down in its air space last week.

Iran is in possession of a RQ-170 Sentinel drone that went missing over the Islamic Republic, U.S. military sources told Fox News on Monday.

The Sentinel is the same kind of stealth high tech drone that was used to monitor the compound during the raid that killed Usama bin Laden in Pakistan, the sources said.

The sources confirmed the Iranians have the drone, however, they did not say that the Iranians shot down the spy plane, as was reported by Iran's official IRNA news agency.

"An advanced RQ-170 unmanned American spy plane was shot down by Iran's armed forces. It suffered minor damage and is now in possession of Iran's armed forces," IRNA quoted an unidentified Iranian military official saying Sunday. The official also warned of strong and crushing response to any violations of the country's airspace by American drone aircraft.

Earlier, the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan issued a statement saying the aircraft may have been a drone that operators lost contact with last week while it was flying a mission over neighboring western Afghanistan.

A U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the classified nature of the incident, said the U.S. had "absolutely no indication" that the drone was shot down.

Iran is locked in a dispute with the U.S. and its allies over Tehran's disputed nuclear program, which the West believes is aimed at developing nuclear weapons. Iran denies the accusations, saying its nuclear program is entirely peaceful and that it seeks to generate electricity and produce isotopes to treat medical patients.

The RQ-170 Sentinel is made by Lockheed Martin and is equipped with stealth technology.

Iran said in January that two pilotless spy planes it had shot down over its airspace were operated by the United States and offered to put them on public display. In July, Iranian military officials showed Russian experts several U.S. drones they said were shot down in recent years.

Also in July, Iranian lawmaker Ali Aghazadeh Dafsari said Iran's Revolutionary Guard shot down an unmanned U.S. spy plane that was trying to gather information on an underground uranium enrichment site.

Sen. Mark Kirk, R-Ill., told Fox News on Monday that "it's less likely than not" that the Iranians did not shoot down the plane, but it had a mechanical or computer malfunction that caused it to go down "and then used it for propaganda purposes."

"In the past, they have claimed these shoot-downs and been unable to produce any pieces of the drone, and currently, they have not exhibited any piece of the RQ-170 yet," he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/05/us-military-sources-iran-has-missing-us-drone/#ixzz1fgVCSre6

Catsoo · « **Reply #69 on:** December 05, 2011, 06:07:25 PM »

Iran capture of US spy drone 'would be significant blow to military'

Iran could deal a significant blow to the US military if it has captured a top secret American spy drone, allowing Tehran to counter or copy the highly classified technology, experts have warned.
Iran threatens retaliation after drone shot down: An RQ-170 American drone has been shot down in eastern Iran
An RQ-170 American drone has been shot down in eastern Iran
Ben Farmer

By Ben Farmer, Kabul

4:20PM GMT 05 Dec 2011

Comments8 Comments

Tehran claims to have brought down with "little damage" an RQ-170 surveillance drone, considered one of the most secret aircraft in the world, flying inside eastern Iran.

The seizure of the unarmed surveillance drone intact would give access to a treasure trove of classified information including the designs of the aircraft and its payload of sensors.

However it was unlikely the drone had escaped a crash or being shot down without significant damage and its sensitive technology was probably rigged with self-destruct mechanisms, experts added.

Suspicion surrounds the claims because Iran has yet to release any footage of the captured drone or its wreckage.

Nato forces confirmed a drone went missing in Afghanistan near the Iranian border last week, though would not say what kind it was.
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Huw Williams, an expert on unmanned aircraft at Jane's International Defence Review, said the RQ-170 Sentinel, made by Lockheed Martin, was one of the most secret drone programmes in the world and had reportedly taken part in the operation which killed Osama bin Laden.

The aircraft is designed for intelligence gathering and relaying communications.

If it fell into Iranian hands, engineers could potentially find ways to defeat its stealth technology and take advantage of its sensors and communications equipment.

"If you can figure out the properties of the aircraft and what makes it stealthy, then you can figure out how to spot it more easily," he said.

"If the Iranians have the technology then there could be good opportunities for reverse engineering and getting a good idea of how to track these things." "It's fair to say they are no mugs when it comes to technology.

There's a good chance that they could exploit things especially if the payload is intact and it's carrying things like high-end cameras." Elizabeth Quintana, a senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, said: "If this got into the hands of anyone, let alone the Iranians, this would be quite significant." Even the prospect of its successful capture would probably force the American military to divert money to more research to stay a step ahead of Iran.

"It would certainly force the US to spend money just in case they were able to reverse engineer it," she said.

The aircraft was designed to operate deep inside enemy territory, though, and would almost certainly have self destruct measures to stop secrets falling into enemy hands.

Paul Rolfe, UK director of Unmanned Experts, said: "I would be very surprised if the question hasn't been asked and answered at the highest level: 'What happens if Iran or China or North Korea gets their hands on one of these things?'

"The really worrying bit is any payload and package it may have been holding. But given the altitudes and speeds it operates at, I think it's more likely to have come down upside down at 600 knots and they are going to be picking bits of ceramic out of the desert for five years."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/8936066/Iran-capture-of-US-spy-drone-would-be-significant-blow-to-military.html

mamdali · « **Reply #70 on:** December 05, 2011, 07:15:42 PM »

Quote from: reza18 on December 05, 2011, 08:57:51 AM

Mamdali, I think that self destruct thing is just a myth..Think about it, if there was a self destruct mechanism in it, they'll be loosing many drones to simple mechanical glitches. When drones fly they do, in fact, lose contact with their ground base control every now and then but contact is re-established after a while so having a self destruct mechanism that is supposed to destroy the drone when it loses contact will be counter productive as not all the loss of contact with the drone is permanent...Got my drift??

Unless, of course, the drone is purely designed to be "lost" and used as a sabotage weapon against the enemy...I don't know if I'm making sense or not..lol

Thinking about this, the technology to implement self-destruction (SD) should be very simple. However, what would considerably complicate a SD mechanism are the scenarios for when SD should be executed. These would include failure within friendly territory where SD would be unnecessary or failure close to population centers where SD might cause collateral damage, etc. However, at the end, although not perfect, I can imagine relatively good solutions to these scenarios as well. BTW, the SD mechanisms I imagine are entirely self-contained and do not require remote communication or a 'signal' to execute so even substantial jamming would have little effect. At the end, I won't be so easily dismissive of SD capabilities.

The recent articles posted seem to indicate there was an SD mechanism on board. I am well aware these articles are top candidates for misinofrmation, however, I don't see the value of reporting an SD event other than propaganda purposes for public consumption. If that is the case, then it is also reasonable to argue Iran's claim of retrieving the UAV 'unharmed' is also for public consumption. Each side knows, to a large extent, what is true or not so this information is not targetting each other but, almost entirely, the public at large.

Given all this, I am curious what the true state of the vehicle is. I'm sure even if it had SD'd , whatever remains will be of SOME use. At this point, I'm somewhat skeptical this vehicle is almost intact as has been reported by Iran. I hope I am wrong, and if I am, to reiterate, I would like to hear how that is possible from our informed engineers on this forum.

Mamdali

Catsoo · « **Reply #71 on:** December 05, 2011, 07:23:02 PM »

Now comes the massive damage control efforts after US admitted Iran is now in position of stealth UAV!

Downed UAV Technology Already Dated

Dec 5, 2011

By David A. Fulghum davef@aviationweek.com, Bill Sweetman william_sweetman@aviationweek.com

Even if Iran has, as it claims, shot down a Lockheed Martin RQ-170 unmanned aerial system (UAS), the single-channel, full-motion video capability that made the stealthy flying wing so invaluable when it debuted in Afghanistan about two years ago is considered outdated, potentially limiting the intelligence fallout.

For now, U.S. intelligence- and surveillance-related sources only will say the downed aircraft was “possibly” the RQ-170 Sentinel. One source tells AViation Week there is a “50-50” chance it is the Sentinel.

Nonetheless, both assessments put the aircraft that was in operation over Iran as well as Afghanistan. From the beginning of RQ-170 operations, indications from the intelligence community were that Iran’s missile program was one set of targets of interest, as was its nuclear weapons program.

But even if it is the RQ-170, systems now moving into an operational role are scores of times more effective than the Sentinel’s full-motion video (FMV), assuming that technology has not been significantly upgraded or replaced covertly.

Perhaps the most important data point to have emerged from the raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan was its reliance on activity-based intelligence. Bin Laden was never seen, but the coming and going of other important personages revealed that he was there. The information was gathered by the FMV sensor system on the U.S. Air Force’s RQ-170, and the data were analyzed by the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA).

The need for more activity-based intelligence capability is underscored by NGA. “We’re moving into more of an anticipatory [style of operations],” a senior agency official says. “We look at key intelligence questions and bring as many pieces of information together as we can, using multi-intelligence fusion and nontraditional sources.” The bin Laden residence was identified by “pattern of life activity and [NGA] worked with the assault team to look at the best way to get there,” the official says

Now, that single-sensor capability is being multiplied by 65 times, resulting in an exponential increase in data, packaged for carriage by UAS and automated so it can be monitored by significantly fewer intelligence analysts than the current model of FMV exploitation. The BAE Systems-developed, wide-area, persistent surveillance sensor called the Autonomous Real-time Ground Ubiquitous Surveillance Imaging System (Argus-IS) will provide that level of functionality in a single sensor operating on a single platform.

Argus-IS is considered part of a whole new class of sensor. In this package it combines wide-area coverage (40 sq. km) with impressive detail (15-cm resolution ground sample distance per pixel). Moreover, the imagery resolution allows tracking of moving vehicles and dismounted individuals.

“The way the sensor actually operates is to continuously image an area on the ground about the size of a small city, and it stores the data on board for the entire mission,” says Jeremy Tondreault, program director of BAE’s electronic systems business. “Each of the [65] video windows is analogous to what [we get] today with narrow-band FMV.”

The U.K. Royal Air Force in Afghanistan is using the Goodrich Raptor reconnaissance pod, which houses the DB-110 dual-band (infrared and visual), long-range oblique photography (Lorop) camera. In addition, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) is advocating to provide more money for a new DB-110 demonstration on the MQ-9A Reaper UAS, while an earlier demonstration on a pre-production Predator B supported Britain’s interests.

The Lorop camera system was developed by what was then Litton’s Itek division, which has been associated with CIA reconnaissance programs. For nontraditional intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, Lorop has the advantage of being able to image a large area — such as a road, its surroundings, a valley — quickly and in detail from standoff range.

Israel-based Rafael’s Recce-Lite uses the Litening pod shape and other components, eliminating the laser in favor of bigger optics. The U.S. Air Force has tested a Goodrich MS-177 camera with a multi-spectral, 177-in. focal length on an E-8C Joint Stars as a means of identifying targets detected by radar.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/awx/2011/12/05/awx_12_05_2011_p0-401894.xml&headline=Downed%20U

jalal · « **Reply #72 on:** December 05, 2011, 11:28:17 PM »

Here it goes , I usually enjoy reading the comment of others but I thought may be this time I share my two cents with this community.
Iran in heavy industry such mechanical or aviation and space programs and heavy industry even with the achievement of last decade that has been exemplary probably is behind by 30 or 40 years and a lot of capital and determination will take to catch up with the rest advance countries like U.S.A and Germany, France, England and being under sanctions will make it an even harder accomplishment.
But electronics and principals of making Radars and optical devices are relatively new sciences and Iran has less to catch up and with enough investment and keeping up to date with new discoveries and new inventions should be able to bring that gap to nil or at least to competitive level and in software sphere, there is even less gap, Iran has good pool of mathematicians and always had strong study of logic's and these are the base for software design or hacking into other systems.
Now if downing of RQ-170 is true and Iran has been able to monitor it and bring it down with a worm or virus by mimicking its commands it will be a game changer on many fronts, the obvious one be in Radar technology and in cyber warfare and possibly in ECM and EECM technologies, as some has already suggested advantage of domestic production of these defensive devices is that the enemy have to guess about their ability and never knows their exact limit or capabilities and lets hope all these will work to keep the dogs of war off Iran for few more years, because with this rate of advancement and achievement, time is definitely on our side.

reza18 · « **Reply #73 on:** December 06, 2011, 12:07:51 AM »

I now see the Western media propaganda trying to play down this latest coup by saying things like, "Oh the technology is already outdated so Iran wouldn't gain much from it".

They can't believe their top notch technology have been owned by what they classify as "inferior army"..

YMJ · « **Reply #74 on:** December 06, 2011, 12:09:27 AM »

Quote from: reza18 on December 06, 2011, 12:07:51 AM

I now see the Western media propaganda trying to play down this latest coup by saying things like, "Oh the technology is already outdated so Iran wouldn't gain much from it".

They can't believe their top notch technology have been owned by what they classify as "inferior army"..

Lol exactly, if its outdated why are you using it in such a sensitive spot like Iran?

It's illogical.