Author Topic: My ideas for surface to air missiles. (Read 1136 times)

Pegor · « **on:** October 05, 2009, 03:29:28 PM »

now my ideas are way from perfect but I will share.
first idea is that every sound has a specific frequency. a jet engine produces a lot of noise. so if you put a microphone in a missile which only recieves a range of frequencies just as a jet engine's you can follow the plane and hit it.
second idea is that you get a 3-d picture of a plane and download it on the missile's computer the missile is fitted with a camera which rapidly takes pictures. now the missile is launched in a direction facing the aircraft. using facial recognition software the missile compares the picture to its database of 3-d images of planes. as soon as it gets a 100% match the missile will change its direction until the planes image is in the center and boom the plane is down.

Ayyash · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2009, 10:53:40 PM »

Quote from: Pegor on October 05, 2009, 03:29:28 PM

now my ideas are way from perfect but I will share.
first idea is that every sound has a specific frequency. a jet engine produces a lot of noise. so if you put a microphone in a missile which only recieves a range of frequencies just as a jet engine's you can follow the plane and hit it.

The limitation i see with this is that it would be hard to detect the sound of the engine at BVR range, especially given the sound of your own engine.

Quote

second idea is that you get a 3-d picture of a plane and download it on the missile's computer the missile is fitted with a camera which rapidly takes pictures. now the missile is launched in a direction facing the aircraft. using facial recognition software the missile compares the picture to its database of 3-d images of planes. as soon as it gets a 100% match the missile will change its direction until the planes image is in the center and boom the plane is down.

This is actually one of the more recent developments, this is whats used by the Israeli Python-5 missile.

Pasdar · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2009, 08:11:57 AM »

1) You have a jet moving at Mach ~1, you attempt to intercept the jet with a missile moving at Mach 3. So there is a mach difference of about 4 between these two moving objects assuming they'e flying toward one another. Now this passive radar of yours works on pressure fluctuations moving at of course, the speed of sound (mach 1). Do you see the problem?

2) 'Live video' and software to identify objects on that video can be applied. The problem is what do you do when its dark? Use a differen't spectrum? But if its visible in IR, why wouldn't one send a heat seeker after it? So visual detection would be a good addition yes, but not the sole element that guides it.

AminCo · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2009, 12:55:20 PM »

I works (the idea) when there is one target
assume that pane is coming from right to left and anti-air missile from left to right and they directly going toward each other(best scenario for the anti-air missile with"IR and video seeker")
what if the plane launched an air to air missile.

anti-air will going to hit plane of missile.

while the to missile approaching each other the IR and clear picture of air to air missile is much higher then plane to the anti-air missile.

so the missile will hit the air to air missile instead of plane.

Pegor · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:04:00 PM »

Quote from: Pasdar on October 06, 2009, 08:11:57 AM

1) You have a jet moving at Mach ~1, you attempt to intercept the jet with a missile moving at Mach 3. So there is a mach difference of about 4 between these two moving objects assuming they'e flying toward one another. Now this passive radar of yours works on pressure fluctuations moving at of course, the speed of sound (mach 1). Do you see the problem?

2) 'Live video' and software to identify objects on that video can be applied. The problem is what do you do when its dark? Use a differen't spectrum? But if its visible in IR, why wouldn't one send a heat seeker after it? So visual detection would be a good addition yes, but not the sole element that guides it.

well for 1) the radar will be used to detect the aircraft get to know its direction speed altitude. then you launche missile facing the aircraft. so the missile is independent of the radar.
2)well you can use night vision.

Pegor · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:06:56 PM »

Quote from: aminiranform on October 06, 2009, 12:55:20 PM

I works (the idea) when there is one target
assume that pane is coming from right to left and anti-air missile from left to right and they directly going toward each other(best scenario for the anti-air missile with"IR and video seeker")
what if the plane launched an air to air missile.

anti-air will going to hit plane of missile.

while the to missile approaching each other the IR and clear picture of air to air missile is much higher then plane to the anti-air missile.

so the missile will hit the air to air missile instead of plane.

I did not understand may you please reexplain clearly especially the last part.

AminCo · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2009, 03:49:43 AM »

Quote from: Pegor on October 06, 2009, 03:06:56 PM

I did not understand may you please reexplain clearly especially the last part.

First of all let me define the component because seems that the name mad a little confusion.
enemy plane = X
anti-air missile of yours = Y
anti-air missile of enemy plane = Z

what happened if Y in the middle of air found a X and X fire Z towered the Y to destroy it.
let assume the Y has image and IR seeker.
as Z get closer to Y, Y will see the Z much clearer the X, so Y by him self will target the Z not X.

so what about this scenario.

Qassam · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2009, 03:55:50 AM »

Quote from: aminiranform on October 07, 2009, 03:49:43 AM

First of all let me define the component because seems that the name mad a little confusion.
enemy plane = X
anti-air missile of yours = Y
anti-air missile of enemy plane = Z

what happened if Y in the middle of air found a X and X fire Z towered the Y to destroy it.
let assume the Y has image and IR seeker.
as Z get closer to Y, Y will see the Z much clearer the X, so Y by him self will target the Z not X.

so what about this scenario.

lol it took me a few times to reread your post to be able to understand what you are saying. The x,y,z, thing made it more confusing then what it was. I just changed what you wrote and put the meaning of x,y,z in place lol.

AminCo · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2009, 04:10:50 AM »

Quote from: Qassam on October 07, 2009, 03:55:50 AM

lol it took me a few times to reread your post to be able to understand what you are saying. The x,y,z, thing made it more confusing then what it was. I just changed what you wrote and put the meaning of x,y,z in place lol.

sorry to make it harder, so what do you thing about this scenario and how you can solve the issue in your project?

Qassam · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2009, 04:20:55 AM »

Quote from: aminiranform on October 07, 2009, 04:10:50 AM

sorry to make it harder, so what do you thing about this scenario and how you can solve the issue in your project?

It's not my project lol. Its pegor's project I guess. I guess I would have to say enable it to hit multiple targets....maybe? Other than this idea, I have no clue lol.

AminCo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2009, 04:47:11 AM »

Quote from: Qassam on October 07, 2009, 04:20:55 AM

It's not my project lol. Its pegor's project I guess. I guess I would have to say enable it to hit multiple targets....maybe? Other than this idea, I have no clue lol.

sorry, so we wait for pegor reply

Pegor · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2009, 04:52:10 PM »

well the missile will guide its self by getting a mach with the planes 3-d image. so the missile will not lock on the enemy anti air missile. now with missile with the microphone you have a point the combustion noise by a jat engine and a missile are similar so we can change the missile's microphone range to the frequency of the air flowing around the wings of the plane.

Pasdar · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2009, 06:40:09 PM »

Quote from: Pegor on October 06, 2009, 03:04:00 PM

well for 1) the radar will be used to detect the aircraft get to know its direction speed altitude. then you launche missile facing the aircraft. so the missile is independent of the radar.
2)well you can use night vision.

1) The problem I was pointing to is that the speed of sound is way too slow in the atmosphere to use it as radar (like we use sonar <- sound in water)

lets do some simple calculations
The speed of sound at an altitude of 10km =>
speed of sound = sqrt( γ⋅R⋅T ) = sqrt (1.4 * 287 * 208) = ~289 m/s

So at about 30 second later the sound reaches you on the ground and the aircraft is already 9 km further.

In water at 10 Celsius:
speed of sound = sqrt (1.324 * 4186 * 278) = ~1 241 m/s

sound moves too slow in air, but moves quite fast in water (even much faster than what I wrote), thats why sonar is used (which is what you suggest, but in air), and not sound radars for air. However, there are probably situations imaginable where it could be used in combination, but the question is whether its worth the research/money/etc for what you get in return and whether something better doesnt already do a much better job.

2) Night vision works on the IR (infrared) spectrum, there are already quite a number of missile that do that. This is what they call a heat seeking missile.

Pegor · « **Reply #13 on:** October 09, 2009, 02:52:16 PM »

@Pasdar
the system uses ordinary radar to detect the plane. then the microphone in the missile's warhead recives soundwaves recived by the microphone will guide the missile toward the plane. as in the sound emmited by the plane travels in a sphere shape. so as the missile is heading towards the plane it locks to the center of the sphere as in the plane itself.

Pegor · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:59:09 PM »

Idea 1
well I just studied in physics that every object has a resonance frequency and that if you send waves with a frequency close to the resonance frequency of the object the object will vibrate. so we can use this technique to destroy missiles and planes.
Idea 2
every missile uses AlO₂ as part of its rocket fuel. so if you arm your missile with a chemical analyser the misslie will analyse the air behind the missile for AlO₂ and track it and destroy the missile.

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Author Topic: My ideas for surface to air missiles. (Read 1136 times)

Pegor

My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Ayyash

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Pasdar

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

AminCo

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Pegor

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Pegor

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

AminCo

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Qassam

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AminCo

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Qassam

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

AminCo

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Pegor

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Pasdar

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Pegor

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.

Pegor

Re: My ideas for surface to air missiles.