Author Topic: Shalamcheh SAM was delivered to air-defence forces. (Read 4853 times)

M-ATF · « **Reply #50 on:** September 07, 2011, 04:36:33 PM »

Does anyone has images of MIM-23G/H missiles?
And finally , Are antennas of Shahin and Shalamcheh , phased array antennas?

Numbers · « **Reply #51 on:** September 14, 2011, 10:36:37 AM »

Quote from: maydayfire on September 07, 2011, 12:09:31 AM

Therefore, in beamforming, you can have a transmit beam or a receive beam which have almost identical spacial properties and identical algorithms and mathematics but just in reverse order compared to one another.

Now using a phased array antenna to seek the painted target (painted by other transmitter), only makes your look direction more accurate as it has a less blurry radar image compared to parabola antenna, resulting in more accurate command signals towards the target.

More likely Phased Array Antenna Radars are used because they have very fast time of scan.
PAA Radar does the scan by modifying timing of electrical signals on (x, y) array of antennas.

Parabolic dish Radar has to change position of dish physically. So time of scan is increased by necessity to physically move antenna dish.

In my opinion all future radars will be Phased Array Antenna type with (x, y) electronic scan.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #52 on:** September 14, 2011, 04:43:06 PM »

M-ATF,

From my limited knowledge of radar antennas, those seen in the Shahin/Shalamcheh are Planar array antennas. If you compare images of Phased Array antennas and these images, you will see some major differences. When the images of the Shahin seeker first appeared, we had a debate here over what kind of antenna it was and I used images of the Russian Zhuk radar for demonstration. The Zhuk-ME radar is a Pulse Doppler Radar and has a very similar looking antenna, while the Zhuk-AE (which is a Phased arrary version of the Zhuk radar) has a very different looking antenna.

And the problem with looking for HAWK missile images is...They all look the same. There is no external difference between the MIM-23B (first used in the I-HAWK upgrade) to the missiles used by the later model HAWKs. Likewise, the missile's performance is the same from the B model on. All HAWK missiles built from the B model on have identical performance (range, ceiling, warhead), it is believed that better seekers were developed for the later models.

However as I said, because all HAWK missiles are identical in outward appearance, it's impossible to tell which exact model it is without seeing the associated radar or seeker.

aryana · « **Reply #53 on:** September 14, 2011, 06:04:20 PM »

Shalamcheh is definitly semi active radar.
i saw they said it on tv.
shahin on other hand.? but shahin is not importment any more.

maydayfire · « **Reply #54 on:** September 14, 2011, 06:16:27 PM »

Guys planar array is just another term for phased array antennas. The term Planar refers to the antenna being an array of sensors on a plane or sheet, hence referring to the physical appearance of the antenna. The Term Phased-Array refers to using delayed or out-of-phase versions on each pair of sensors in the array in order to form a directional beam based on beamforming algorithms, hence the term phased array is referring to the mathematical/algorithmic aspect of the transmit/receive procedure of the antenna.

aryana · « **Reply #55 on:** September 14, 2011, 06:19:55 PM »

Quote from: maydayfire on September 14, 2011, 06:16:27 PM

Guys planar array is just another term for phased array antennas. The term Planar refers to the antenna being an array of sensors on a plane or sheet, hence referring to the physical appearance of the antenna. The Term Phased-Array refers to using delayed or out-of-phase versions on each pair of sensors in the array in order to form a directional beam based on beamforming algorithms, hence the term phased array is referring to the mathematical/algorithmic aspect of the transmit/receive procedure of the antenna.

well thats awsome.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #56 on:** September 14, 2011, 08:05:33 PM »

In other words, generally all Phased Array radars use Planar Array style antennas (which can very in design), but not all planar array antennas indicate the presence of a phased array radar. Planar arrary antennas are present in both older Pulse Doppler radars as well as Phased array radars.

aryana · « **Reply #57 on:** September 14, 2011, 10:04:20 PM »

Quote from: Eagle2009 on September 14, 2011, 08:05:33 PM

In other words, generally all Phased Array radars use Planar Array style antennas (which can very in design), but not all planar array antennas indicate the presence of a phased array radar. Planar arrary antennas are present in both older Pulse Doppler radars as well as Phased array radars.

then you have my reply

Numbers · « **Reply #58 on:** September 16, 2011, 05:23:17 AM »

In my opinion Phased Array Radar scans in both (x, y) direction without physicaly moving the Radar.

While Planar Array Radar scans only in (0, y) direction (only in y direction). So the Radar beam is only scanning in up, down vertical direction. To make complete scan Planar Array Radar has to be rotated (to add left, right scan).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_array_radar

"A fixed delay is established between horizontal arrays in the elevation plane. As the frequency is changed, the phase front across the aperture tends to tilt, with the result that the beam is moved in elevation. The differing frequencies cause each successive beam to be elevated slightly more than previous beams. A 27.5 degree elevation is scanned by the radar."

maydayfire · « **Reply #59 on:** September 29, 2011, 08:07:27 PM »

pics of mersad air defence system:

MORE PICS:
http://farsnews.com/imgrep.php?nn=13900707000856

mamdali · « **Reply #60 on:** September 29, 2011, 08:20:16 PM »

Very importantly, this picture shows bits and pieces of a UAV downed by Mersad. Does anyone recognize these?

Mamdali

M-ATF · « **Reply #61 on:** September 29, 2011, 08:28:19 PM »

See this image by IRNA:

Thats Shahin not Shalamcheh, Name of "Shahin" has been writen on nose of it.
I'm curoius to know is Shalamche a development and improvement of Shahin or not it is different and will be used alongside of Shahin.

Ayyash · « **Reply #62 on:** September 29, 2011, 09:46:28 PM »

Mamdali
It looks like the rear, left wing of an Ababil. It has the same cropped delta configuration with very little rearward sweep.

---

I have to say, very slick battery control post. The integration of the LCDs with easy-to-interpret controls and intuitive displays are somewhat hard to quantify but, IMO, can't be underestimated at a multiplier of combat effectiveness regardless of the actual physical capability of the Mersad/Shahin/Shalamcheh.

---
That's not Khomenei's Mausoleum in the background, is it?

M-ATF · « **Reply #63 on:** September 30, 2011, 05:37:28 AM »

yes seems its Imam Khomeyni mausoleum

M-ATF · « **Reply #64 on:** September 30, 2011, 08:43:23 AM »

Seems optical devices installed on "Hadi" radar of Mersad is different than optical devces have been seen on other airdefence systems of Iran, yes?

M-ATF · « **Reply #65 on:** September 30, 2011, 11:21:26 AM »

The device which is used for loading missiles on launcher is different than Hawk?

M-ATF · « **Reply #66 on:** September 30, 2011, 11:47:59 AM »

Iranian call PAR radara of Mersad as "Kavosh" radar .
Did you notice to two vertical and horizontal rectangular antenna on "Kavosh" (PAR) radar of Mersad?

I checked PAR radar of Hawk, some of them havent any of both the vertical and horizontal rectangular antenna , like this (I think it is AN/MPQ-50) :

some of them just have vertical rectangular antenna (I think it is AN/MPQ-35) :

but I didnt find any PAR radar equiped with the antenna similar to that horizontal rectangular antenna of "Kavosh" radar of Mersad:

M-ATF · « **Reply #67 on:** September 30, 2011, 12:58:53 PM »

Old images of Mersad shows that PAR radar of it hadnt this horizontal rectangular antenna. And it is new in this recent display of Mersad

An old Image of PAR radar of Mersad:

M-ATF · « **Reply #68 on:** September 30, 2011, 01:44:38 PM »

Some other differences of Mersad and Hawk
Old image of PAR radar of Mersad and Hawk (by Morteza13 at military.ir)

HPIR radar of Hawk and Old Image of HPIR radar of Mersad :

Ad now seems HPIR radar of New unveiled Mersad is different than old Mersad, Or these difference is due this fact that these two images are from conrtols of two different sides of HPIR radar not the same side:

stormbringa · « **Reply #69 on:** September 30, 2011, 01:53:17 PM »

Could be IFF antenna.

M-ATF · « **Reply #70 on:** September 30, 2011, 02:02:33 PM »

Does it has any relation with AN/MSQ-110 ICC:

I couldnt find good images of CWAR system of Hawk, just these images :

and these are CWAR radar of Mersad (first image is old):

maydayfire · « **Reply #71 on:** September 30, 2011, 05:53:42 PM »

Ayyash · « **Reply #72 on:** October 03, 2011, 06:28:34 AM »

I think I've found the site in question thanks being able to use Khomenei's mausoleum as a reference point. Here's my best guess as to the layout.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

maydayfire · « **Reply #73 on:** November 23, 2011, 08:30:38 AM »

mashreghnews article on Mersad:
http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/80408/%DA%A9%D9%85%DB%8C%D9%86-%DA%AF%D8%A7%D9%87-%D9%85%D8%AF%D8%B1%D9%86-%D9%BE%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%86%D8%AF-%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%88%DB%8C%D8%B1