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ir
3rd lieutenant (ستوان سوم)
excuse me,but how Iran can do this?
their ships will be nearly 1000-1300 km away from iranian Coast.

Ich
at last half of them will be around iran, without these missiles, US will have less chances against iranian Air defense.


Exactly! Do you know what we have? Or you know  only what we are showing the world?

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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
US aircrafts can jam the  Infra Red Thermal guidance of most missiles; in addition, on a stealth aircraft,  the emitted gas is cooled down before to get out of the turbine in order to minimize detection. Normally the best way to detect such aircrafts is to use long wavelenght.

I mentioned TV/Infra Red passive guidence in my post above.
Stealth Aircrafts are still visible in Infra Red because Stealth Aircraft's turbine engine is extremely hot.

Cooling of Stealth Aircraft's Emitted Gas is not sufficient to reduce its Infra Red signature.

Comparison: Heat Energy taken from Emitted Gas versus Heat Energy released by burning Kerosin (fuel for all Airplanes).

I have also mentioned TV in TV/Infra Red. It means Night Vision TV camera gives 2nd Spectrum of guidence to Anti Air missile.
Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 11:59:45 AM by Numbers

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Private 1st Class (سرباز یكم)
I mentioned TV/Infra Red passive guidence in my post above.
Stealth Aircrafts are still visible in Infra Red because Stealth Aircraft's turbine engine is extremely hot.

Cooling of Stealth Aircraft's Emitted Gas is not sufficient to reduce its Infra Red signature.

Comparison: Heat Energy taken from Emitted Gas versus Heat Energy released by burning Kerosin (fuel for all Airplanes).

I have also mentioned TV in TV/Infra Red. It means Night Vision TV camera gives 2nd Spectrum of guidence to Anti Air missile.


Thank you Numbers for explaining the infra red thing.

Please also tell us:

1. What is the Range of TV cameras (during day time, during night, during bad weather, anti TV Camera techniques..... etc).

2. Also how much does such TV Cameras cost along with Infra Red seeker.

3. To be truthful, it seems to me the better choice  to develop an infrastructure of TV/Infra Red as compared to other Radars (while US is better in technology and could counter other Radar systems by using different ways.... but it is difficult to beat the Infra Red/TV Cameras).

I request you to please do the complete comparison between Infra Red/TV   VS  Other Radar System with reference to the  Technology of US VS Iran.

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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
I request you to please do the complete comparison between Infra Red/TV   VS  Other Radar System with reference to the Technology of US VS Iran.

I am sorry I lack complete information on TV/Infra Red guidence.
There was information that Mig-29 Infra Red cameras have range of 30 kilometers. But I have not seen that information in detail.

Of course both TV and Infra Red cameras use lenses to give them 30 kilometers range. So both can be used to detect Stealth Aircrafts.

MANPAD like Igla can be used to detect and engage Stealth Aircrafts.

Long Wavelength Radar can also be used to detect Stealth Aircrafts. However TV/Infra Red cameras are more convenient. Missile like Igla with Infra Red guidence can be launched by single soldier. No need for NEBO SVU Radar. 1 soldier in a trench can launch Igla missile and take down Stealth Aircraft.
 
Future development of MANPADs like Igla is threatening Stealth Aircraft technology. Increasing range and altitude of MANPAD further threatens Stealth Aircrafts.

If modified MANPAD Igla has range 30 kilometers and altitude 20 kilometers it allows infantry to hit Stealth Aircrafts.
Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 02:53:08 AM by Numbers

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ca
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
Regarding the initial question/suggestion when this thread was started....

1) Assumption no 1, even if Iran abandon enrichment the West will feel encouraged and ask something else, like the proof that Iran is not develloiping chemical/biological weapons, and then something else, so giving up the nuclear program will not change anything

2) Iran cannot assume that its air defenses will prevent the destruction of its infrastructures, it can only try to make the operation costly

3) Decentralizing the production of energy, I suppose that Iran has a "B" plan. Producing electricity and gasoline with big power plants and refineries is cheaper, that's the way to proceed under normal circunbstances. But if Iran has enough gas turbines, smaller electric generators and use LNG for the majority of the vehicles ( I think that most vehicles need to be compatible right now) it's probably possible to survive the air raids because you have too many targets disseminated and a long war will bring the West on its knees. Of course producing electricity and fuel will cost more in such a case, but it's better than to have the Iraqi scenario where the production of electricity was 4% of its normal level after the US raids in 1991.

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Iran's Air Defense Unit started massive air defense drills, codenamed 'Sarallah', in the country's Southern regions on Monday to test and assess the latest versions and productions of home-made radar and missile defense systems.

"The new and fresh activities carried out in these maneuvers were some new tactics of air defense systems in area of the IRGC's air fighting system and air defense," Esmayeeli told reporters on Wednesday.

Timely detection of hypothetical enemy targets, manned and unmanned aerial vehicles and identification of them by integrated air defense systems as well as tactical independence were among the objectives accomplished in the drills, Esmayeeli noted.

He added that different types of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) fighter jets, IRGC's aircraft, different mid and long-range and low altitude air defense systems were used in the drills.

On the first day of the exercises, the air defense units of the Iranian Armed Forces under the command of Khatam ol-Anbia base managed to detect and identify invading aircraft and started confrontation with enemy warplanes using air defense systems and Scramble and CAP air defense planes.

During the second day of the drills, Iran's air defense force assessed the preparedness and performance of its air defense artillery and mid-range missile systems against low-altitude aerial threats.

The drills were staged by the air defense units of the Iranian Army and the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC).

Iran's air defense units assessed the performance and capabilities of different types of mobile and fixed radar systems on the third day of Sarallah military drills in Southern Iran.

During the current phase of the air defense wargames, different fixed and mobile radar systems which have been manufactured and upgraded by Iranian experts and are under the control of Iran's integrated air defense network were used.

Kasta and NEBO radars as well as the Iran-made Kashef (Discoverer) and Matla ol-Fajr radars were used to detect and identify aerial threats.

Iran's home-made air defense radar systems can easily detect cruise missiles and drones.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010175740
Persian Pride

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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
Kasta and NEBO radars as well as the Iran-made Kashef (Discoverer) and Matla ol-Fajr radars were used to detect and identify aerial threats.

NEBO SVU Radar can detect Stealth Aircrafts.
NEBO SVU uses very long wavelength Radar Beam, and very large amplitude Radar Beam.

Such combination when used against Stealth Aircraft allows Radar to receive some reflected Radar Beam back to Radar (NEBO SVU).
Due to partial scattering backward of Radar Beam by objects similar to or larger than the wavelength of Radar Beam.

Iran recently has shown some NEBO SVU looking Radar that constantly rotates. I presume that Iranian Radar offers 360 degree detection of Stealth Aircrafts.

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ca
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
Quote
Iran recently has shown some NEBO SVU looking Radar that constantly rotates. I presume that Iranian Radar offers 360 degree detection of Stealth Aircrafts.

Perhaps are you refering to the claims that were done on www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-170710-1.html ? The site looks good but when they say "looks like", and if Iran did not purchase the radar it's hard to know how a radar that "looks like" the NEBO is good or equivalent. Right now I have one reason to doubt that Iran has strong capabilities to detect stealth aircrafts; it's the capture of the drone. Nowhere did Iran claim that its radars detected the drone, the story that was given is that some informers in Afghanistan told them when the drone lift off, what was the direction and Iran hacked the GPS before to used jammers and lead the drone to land in a fake location. A drone is smaller than an aircraft but since Iran said that its radars didn't detect the drone, its quite possible that an aircraft twice bigger wouldn't be detected either.

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I will not put too much capital on what Iran will say or not say about the dron and how it was captured, all they have said it was some generic stuff.
But I do believe in them to have a better shot of leveling play field in Electronics than other fields.

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de
Freeloader (اش خور)
There has been some talk here about the danger that anti-radiation missiles would pose to anti-stealth long wave radars like the Nebo SVU.  But in fact this is not a problem.

The drawback of VHF/metric radars - they need large antennas - here becomes an advantage. A typical anti-radiation missile is simply too small to contain an antenna suitable to detect the emissions of a VHF radar. The lowest frequency a HARM can target is 0.5 GHz, which corresponds to a wave length of about 60 cm.

So radars with wavelengths in the metric range like the Nebo SVU are quite save, at least from this particular threat.

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ca
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
I wrote earlier
Code: [Select]
Nowhere did Iran claim that its radars detected the drone, the story that was given is that some informers in Afghanistan told them when the drone lift off, what was the direction and Iran hacked the GPS before to used jammers and lead the drone to land in a fake location.Sorry I did check back the story that I read 2 months ago and the guy did not give his reference; so apparently Iran didn't claim, nor denied that its radars have spot the drone (at least from what I know). So it's not impossible that a JY-14 was uised for this sake. Neverthless I tend to believe that the USA did use and continue to use often stealth drones for spying missions  in Iran, so it's not excluded that some radars in Iran can spot those stealth drones occasionally, however certanly not always.

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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
Iran recently has shown some NEBO SVU looking Radar that constantly rotates. I presume that Iranian Radar offers 360 degree detection of Stealth Aircrafts.

It might have been smaller version of Matla ol-Fajr or NEBO SVU.

Below is list of Radars that are known to detect Stealth.

30N6E1 "Tombstone"- Used by S-300PMU
0.001m2 (F-35 sized target)= ~33km
0.0001m2 (F-22 sized target)= ~18km

92N2E "Gravestone"- Used by S-400
0.001m2 (F-35 sized target)= ~44km
0.0001m2 (F-22 sized target)= ~20-22km

Any Phased Array Radar from above can be linked to NEBO scanning Radar below. Only this combination can see Stealth Air Planes (F-35, F-22) from greater distance.

NEBO-SVU
0.1= 166km
0.01= 92km
0.001= 66km (F-35 sized target)
0.0001= 38km (F-22 sized target)

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de
Freeloader (اش خور)
Iran recently has shown some NEBO SVU looking Radar that constantly rotates. I presume that Iranian Radar offers 360 degree detection of Stealth Aircrafts.

It might have been smaller version of Matla ol-Fajr or NEBO SVU.

Below is list of Radars that are known to detect Stealth.

30N6E1 "Tombstone"- Used by S-300PMU
0.001m2 (F-35 sized target)= ~33km
0.0001m2 (F-22 sized target)= ~18km

92N2E "Gravestone"- Used by S-400
0.001m2 (F-35 sized target)= ~44km
0.0001m2 (F-22 sized target)= ~20-22km

Any Phased Array Radar from above can be linked to NEBO scanning Radar below. Only this combination can see Stealth Air Planes (F-35, F-22) from greater distance.

NEBO-SVU
0.1= 166km
0.01= 92km
0.001= 66km (F-35 sized target)
0.0001= 38km (F-22 sized target)


You have to consider that RCS values of aircraft are dependent both on the angle as well as the wavelength of the radar emissions it is hit with. The values of 0.001 for the F-35 or 0.0001 for the F-22 are only achieved under optimum conditions, when the radar beam intersects perpendicular to the front - something rather difficult to achieve with a ground based radar  :D.

And the wavelength has to be the same that the stealth aircraft was designed to defeat.  At least in the case of the NEBO I am quite sure that its operating frequency is very different of what the designers of the F-35 and F-22 had in mind!

"Vehicles with low RCS values will generally show an RCS response
proportional to the radar wavelength squared. This wavelength dependence, driven by the target shaping
that must be used if very low RCS values are to be obtained, has renewed the interest in these lower
frequency radars."

ftp://ftp.rta.nato.int/PubFullText/RTO/AG/RTO-AG-300-V14/AG-300-V14-19A.pdf

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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
You have to consider that RCS values of aircraft are dependent both on the angle as well as the wavelength of the radar emissions it is hit with. The values of 0.001 for the F-35 or 0.0001 for the F-22 are only achieved under optimum conditions, when the radar beam intersects perpendicular to the front - something rather difficult to achieve with a ground based radar  :D.

I am sure NEBO SVU can detect Stealth Aircrafts (F-22, F-35) in any position. Since NEBO SVU is long wavelength Phased Array Radar and relies on long wave bouncing back from smaller size object. Object position is irrelevant. Object only has to be smaller then wavelength of NEBO SVU Phased Array Radar.
Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 06:47:48 AM by Numbers

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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
The drawback of VHF/metric radars - they need large antennas - here becomes an advantage. A typical anti-radiation missile is simply too small to contain an antenna suitable to detect the emissions of a VHF radar. The lowest frequency a HARM can target is 0.5 GHz, which corresponds to a wave length of about 60 cm.

In theory HARM can lock on NEBO SVU. Because even 1 centimeter metal antenna can receive all Radar frequencies.

To send long wavelength wave you need Radar with size of NEBO SVU. But to receive the wave back you can use very small antenna (1 centimeter and less). So HARM is still a threat to NEBO SVU class Radars.

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Freeloader (اش خور)
Iran's Air Defense Unit started massive air defense drills, codenamed 'Sarallah', in the country's Southern regions on Monday to test and assess the latest versions and productions of home-made radar and missile defense systems.

"The new and fresh activities carried out in these maneuvers were some new tactics of air defense systems in area of the IRGC's air fighting system and air defense," Esmayeeli told reporters on Wednesday.

Timely detection of hypothetical enemy targets, manned and unmanned aerial vehicles and identification of them by integrated air defense systems as well as tactical independence were among the objectives accomplished in the drills, Esmayeeli noted.

He added that different types of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) fighter jets, IRGC's aircraft, different mid and long-range and low altitude air defense systems were used in the drills.

On the first day of the exercises, the air defense units of the Iranian Armed Forces under the command of Khatam ol-Anbia base managed to detect and identify invading aircraft and started confrontation with enemy warplanes using air defense systems and Scramble and CAP air defense planes.

During the second day of the drills, Iran's air defense force assessed the preparedness and performance of its air defense artillery and mid-range missile systems against low-altitude aerial threats.

The drills were staged by the air defense units of the Iranian Army and the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC).

Iran's air defense units assessed the performance and capabilities of different types of mobile and fixed radar systems on the third day of Sarallah military drills in Southern Iran.

During the current phase of the air defense wargames, different fixed and mobile radar systems which have been manufactured and upgraded by Iranian experts and are under the control of Iran's integrated air defense network were used.

Kasta and NEBO radars as well as the Iran-made Kashef (Discoverer) and Matla ol-Fajr radars were used to detect and identify aerial threats.

Iran's home-made air defense radar systems can easily detect cruise missiles and drones.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010175740

You should post these pictures of radars to Iranian domestic radars topics. Wish to know the capabilities of these radars. thanks.

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de
Freeloader (اش خور)
Quote
I am sure NEBO SVU can detect Stealth Aircrafts (F-22, F-35) in any position. Since NEBO SVU is long wavelength Phased Array Radar and relies on long wave bouncing back from smaller size object. Object position is irrelevant. Object only has to be smaller then wavelength of NEBO SVU Phased Array Radar.


I was not referring specifically to the NEBO. I simply wanted to point out, that the Radar cross section of an aircraft is not fixed, but dependent on the orientation of the radar relative to the aircraft and the wavelength used by the radar. It seemed to me that you did not know this, since you posted the same RCS values for the F22/F35 for radars with different wave lengths. These facts will lead to longer detection ranges for F22/F35 than you considered.

Quote
In theory HARM can lock on NEBO SVU. Because even 1 centimeter metal antenna can receive all Radar frequencies.


Yes, but you lose ever more efficiency the more you go below the optimum antenna size (wavelength / 2).

Quote
To send long wavelength wave you need Radar with size of NEBO SVU. But to receive the wave back you can use very small antenna (1 centimeter and less).


This has nothing to do with sending or receiving. The reason why the antennas for a radar are typically large (in relation to the wavelength used), is the desire for a high angular resolution. The larger the antenna, the better its directional properties. This is important for both transmitting and receiving. Since an anti radiation missile during its flight gets continuously closer to its target, a relatively low angular resolution of its receiving antenna is sufficient.

As an example, look at this anti radiation missile VHF warning radar. Its antenna is much smaller than a NEBO, even though of course it transmits and uses a similar wave length. This is because it does not need to detect the exact position of the missile, only that there is one:

http://www.kbradar.by/text/pages-view-42.html

Quote
So HARM is still a threat to NEBO SVU class Radars.


I'm not sure. As I already posted, the lowest engagement frequency of the HARM AGM-88C is 0.5 GHz, corresponding to a wavelength of about 60 cm. I was not able to find any numbers for the newest version, the AGM-88E.








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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
I was not referring specifically to the NEBO. I simply wanted to point out, that the Radar cross section of an aircraft is not fixed, but dependent on the orientation of the radar relative to the aircraft and the wavelength used by the radar. It seemed to me that you did not know this, since you posted the same RCS values for the F22/F35 for radars with different wave lengths. These facts will lead to longer detection ranges for F22/F35 than you considered.

The ranges posted assume that Stealth Airrafts (F-35, F-22) are approaching directly to Radar. Approaching Stealth Aircraft has the lowest Radar Cross Section.

Detection ranges were given for Radars with different wavelengths (S-300, S-400, NEBO SVU) to detect approaching Stealth Aircraft.

Radar Cross Sections were given probably for millimeter wavelengths Radars. S-300, S-400 use millimeter wavelengths while NEBO SVU uses wavelengths of 1 meter and higher.

Quote
Yes, but you lose ever more efficiency the more you go below the optimum antenna size (wavelength / 2).

Of course. The smaller is antenna the smaller will be power of Radar Signal received.

Quote
Since an anti radiation missile during its flight gets continuously closer to its target, a relatively low angular resolution of its receiving antenna is sufficient.

I'm not sure. As I already posted, the lowest engagement frequency of the HARM AGM-88C is 0.5 GHz, corresponding to a wavelength of about 60 cm. I was not able to find any numbers for the newest version, the AGM-88E.

I agree with everything you said.

Even HARM missile with smaller Radar Antennas on it can lock on any Radar (even NEBO).
Only power of Radar signal will be smaller for smaller Receiver Antenna. And range of detection will be smaller as a result.
Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 02:24:34 AM by Numbers

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Well my logic tells me that in case of US, still the big size of NEBO keep on creating problems while HARM missiles are not the only way for US to attack NEBO sites of big size.

I am still not sure if Passive Radars could detect Stealth or not. But if they can, then that seems to be better option for me.

I also don't know the exact Range of  Optical & Infrared equipment that Iran makes.  But if this could detect Stealth at range of 20-30 km, then they also seem to be very good option.


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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
I am still not sure if Passive Radars could detect Stealth or not. But if they can, then that seems to be better option for me.

Passive Radars are not usefull at all. Even normal Radars can detect Stealth if 100 of them are put in triangular patterns. This tactic is called Triangulation. You need a large amount of Millimeter Wavelength Radars.

You can use 100 more Passive Radars to detect waves from Triangulated Millimeter Radars. Millimeter Radar Signal will be reflected from Stealth Aircraft inside the "Radar Triangle" back to Triangulated Millimeter Radar or Triangulated Passive Radar.

Both tactics lose to single NEBO SVU Radar. Stealth Aircraft approaching directly at NEBO SVU Radar is detected from 66 kilometers distance.

Quote
I also don't know the exact Range of Optical & Infrared equipment that Iran makes. But if this could detect Stealth at range of 20-30 km, then they also seem to be very good option.

Yes. I have not seen Infrared and Nightvision guided Surface to Air Missile with 30 kilometers range yet.
No nation has Infrared and Nightvision SAM yet. Including Iran.

Future Infrared and Nightvision SAM if connected to NEBO SVU Radar can have 60 kilometers range.
Since NEBO SVU Radar detects Stealth Aircraft from 66 kilometers distance.
Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 02:22:25 AM by Numbers

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Allah is the Greatest
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Perhaps are you refering to the claims that were done on www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-170710-1.html ? The site looks good but when they say "looks like", and if Iran did not purchase the radar it's hard to know how a radar that "looks like" the NEBO is good or equivalent. Right now I have one reason to doubt that Iran has strong capabilities to detect stealth aircrafts; it's the capture of the drone. Nowhere did Iran claim that its radars detected the drone, the story that was given is that some informers in Afghanistan told them when the drone lift off, what was the direction and Iran hacked the GPS before to used jammers and lead the drone to land in a fake location. A drone is smaller than an aircraft but since Iran said that its radars didn't detect the drone, its quite possible that an aircraft twice bigger wouldn't be detected either.


Iranian Forces Exercise Targeting UAVs in Air Defense Drills

TEHRAN (FNA)- Iran's air defense units exercised their capability of targetting Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) during massive air defense drills in the Southern province of Bushehr.

Iranian forces shot down a hypothetical enemy's drone on the final day of Sarallah military drills.

Iran's Air Defense Unit started massive air defense drills, codenamed Sarallah, in the country's Southern regions on Monday to test and assess the latest versions and productions of home-made radar and missile defense systems.

The air defense units of Iran's Army deployed various systems on Thursday to counter low-altitude aerial threats and successfully identified and destroyed the mock enemy's UAVs and radar-evading aircraft at an altitude of around 10,000 feet (about 3 kilometers).

Commander of Khatom ol-Anbia Air Defense Base Brigadier General Farzad Esmayeeli announced on Wednesday that Iranian Army and Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) reviewed their latest air defense tactics during the drills.

On the first day of the exercises, the air defense units of the Iranian Armed Forces under the command of Khatam ol-Anbia base managed to detect and identify invading aircraft and started confrontation with enemy warplanes using air defense systems and Scramble and CAP air defense planes.

During the second day of the drills, Iran's air defense force assessed the preparedness and performance of its air defense artillery and mid-range missile systems against low-altitude aerial threats.

The drills were staged by the air defense units of the Iranian Army and the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC).

Iran's air defense units assessed the performance and capabilities of different types of mobile and fixed radar systems on the third day of Sarallah military drills in Southern Iran.
During the current phase of the air defense wargames, different fixed and mobile radar systems which have been manufactured and upgraded by Iranian experts and are under the control of Iran's integrated air defense network were used.

Kasta and NEBO radars as well as the Iran-made Kashef (Discoverer) and Matla ol-Fajr radars were used to detect and identify aerial threats.

Iran's home-made air defense radar systems can easily detect cruise missiles and drones.


http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010175962

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de
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Hello,
This will be only myy own Opinion of how Iran could defeat the USA in a Air-war.

Before we will start with the war I will take a phantasy but in my opinion possible scenario.

Step 1:
Hezbollah and Syrian Army takes control over Lebanon to prevent weapon supply to Syrian Rebels.

Step 2:
Syrian revolution is still underway and US and some allies stationed one Aircraftcarrier in the Mediterranian sea.
They are flying with Jet fighters near the Syrian border and over Lebanese Airspace for recognissance.

Step3:
One ally Aircraft shot down over lebanese Airspace. Later it came out that iranian/Syrian Airdefence units were involved in that case.

Step 4:
In reaction to that Ally forces try to bomb Aii defence units in Lebanon and Syrian border.

Step5:
Iran reacts to show its support for their allies.
Iran is sending fighter drones at low flying altitude to attack bahrain Air defence systems and the bridge connection between Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. At the same time airborne troops and Transport ships will transport more than 20.000 Soldiers to support the Bahraini Revoltuion.
Bahrain will be taken in lesser than 24 hours also cause of the support of Shia majority.

Step 6:
Now NATO will deploy its aircraftcarriersat Persian gulf region and now ourScenario will start.

Initial Situation:

US will send 5 Aircraftcarrier groups into the persian gulf, 2 Carriergroups in the India ocean and one in the red sea. More than 700 Fighter Aircraft are based on carriers and 1200 Aircraft are based at the Persian Gulf (An incorrect term was corrected, the correct term for the southern Iranian waterway is: Persian Gulf) states. They will give Iran a ultimatum to withdraw from Bahrain.
Iran can send 800.000 Troops to the Iran Iraq border and to the Persian gulf cost.

Now the scenario will start:

Iran knows the capabilities of Westers Airforce Technology and they know that even in a hard war, western industry is able to reproduce itself in a long term war.
So the only realistic scenario is attacking first.

First hour:
Iran have the capability to attack all the naval units in the persian gulf. With thousands of missile boats, anti ship missile launchers (Noor, Khalij fars ect) will destroy most of the enemy warships. Parralel to that iran will attack with its short range missiles and long range missiles all the other airforce Bases. In this time Iran will starts hundrets of bomber drones to start the anti Radar Missions.
Saudi Air defence sonsists of:
17 Lockheed Martin AN/FPS-117 long-range phased array, 3-dimensional air search radar.
6 Northrop-Grumman AN/TPS-43 portable 3-dimensional tactical air search radar.

If iran finishes its Anto radar Ballistic Missile project iran can shot most of the Airbases down. Because if you have the position of Enemy air base Radar wich you want to attack you can program your missile to penetrate at a distance to the radar. So you take enemy radar as a reference point. If you do that you can hit enemy runways with high precisition.

so with help of bomber drones and Ballistic missiles Iran can destroy most of the enemy airforce capability.
Shortly after that  there is the possibility to close Hormuz.

But there is more to say:
Iran can use its airforce for defence of its own terretory. Defending Iran against Other aircraft can be easy because most of strategic objects are in cities wich are supported by strong air defence systems.  Iranian Air force can hide itself between mountain valleys so they are not detectable on enemy radars. And if for example a F 18 passes a mountain valley in wich a iranian Aircraft is, iranian aircraft can fire missile from behind. At this point US Airforce is very limited in logistic and quantity because of the destructions wich were made before.
US AIrforce will not be able to take any countermeasures and they will not be ready now for a hge air war.

After 24 Hours:
Iran can attack all Persian Gulf (An incorrect term was corrected, the correct term for the southern Iranian waterway is: Persian Gulf) oil pipelines , oil Terminals and oil and Gas fields with Missiles. After that they can invade via south Iraq, Kuwait and get these objects with more than 600.000 Soldiers in the next 24 hours. If Saudi Arabia reacts fast they can use their MBT Tanks to prevent a fast attack. but Their lack of air power will give Iran the chance to shmash all the enemy tanks down with its deliaveh missiles, Toophan missiles and Laser Guided Bomby and its new high precisition laser artillery systems and without Tanks. Saudi Arabia will loose hughe land desert areas in a small period of time. At the same time Iran can start a second invasion in the United Arab Emirates with nearly 200.000 Soldiers to attack Saudi Arabia from the other flank. In 3 days all Saudi oil regions and persian Gulf costs will be taken over. Even Qatar gas field wcan be in Iranian hands.

The US carrier groups in the Indian ocean are very limited to its opportunities because the distance. Iranian Submarines will be a great danger.

If we take a look at the result after 4 days of war:

-Strait of Hormuz can be closed
-Air fleets can be damaged hardly
-Enemy ships can destroyed
-Oil rich regions can be under Iranian control
-Huge financial crisis for NATO cause of the lost of the Naval fleet
-Massive deaths on NATO side
-People inside Western world will be against own gouverment
-Iran will earn much money cause the rising oil orice
.Western world economy will have historical problems

After that Iran will have a very strong base for neogations. because iran is setting pressure. For US it will take weeks to station enough ground troops to fight the Iranians and at this time Iran can reach the west coast of Saudi Arabia.
With all these facts iran can set its own demands in peace talks.
Maybe this time would be the right time to test a iranian nuclear bomb. Than they show that they cant be attacked anymore.

Iran can demand maybe these points:
- reverse of all sanctions
- Creation of a new Shia state on the other side of the Gulf
-rising of iranian influence zone
- Technology transfer
-Accepting iran as a nuclear power

or giving iran a permanent seat in the U council.

Iran will always have the option to attack US troops in Afghanistan and to free Afghanistan from all foreign troops. if Western world would not give iranians their demands may they will loose all their historical influence in middle east. Even because most of muslim population will follow Iran even in other muslim countries because iran would be the first country wich defeated Western world historcally.

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Why do I think that a military action like this can be possible?

First of all, we know iranian capabilities specially the new precisition and electronic warfare capabilities.
Iranian Anto Ship missiles are able to hit all its targets even those ones with have countermeasures. And the khalije Fars missile cant be intercepted easily. Iranian small boats cant be detected by radar. These boats can fire missiles more than hundret miles away and Iran have thousands of them.

Iranian missile precisition was proofed in the latest military wargames. Iran is able to destroy enemy army bases and Industrial regions. If they  finish the radar seeking Ballistic missile project iran will have realistic opportunities to take a preventive strike like this.

I would be happy if somebody of you finds gaps in this strategic air war theory.


I want to say that this is just my own theory of how iran can prevent an enemy attack.

And sorry for my bad english, I never lived in an english speaking country i just watch english documentaries.




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Posts: 629
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de
Private 1st Class (سرباز یكم)
Iran can attack all Persian Gulf (An incorrect term was corrected, the correct term for the southern Iranian waterway is: Persian Gulf) oil pipelines ,

No It was not a mistake. before your correction I wrote: "Iran can attack all A-r-a-b G-u-l-f  pipelines"
But with Persian Gulf  i didnt mean the "Persian gulf". It was a misunderstanding. I wanted to say Iran can destroy all Arab states wich are bordered to the persian gulf. Sorry for that.
But I want you to know that i know the real name of the PERSIAN Gulf. Thank you very much for  reading my article

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There is always a bigger fish!
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de
Captain (سروان)

Bahrain will be taken in lesser than 24 hours also cause of the support of Shia majority.

No. Without the needed air-support you cant take the fortified positions in lesser than 24 hours even with the support of Shia majority. The 20000 Iranians also will never put a feed on bahrainian ground due to lack of air superiority. The ships never will reach the beach.

Also the other points: without air superiority all goes worse. All carriers will stay in the arabian see and indian ocean. So as long as you see a carrier group in the persian gulf - no war will happen.

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Me like this statement

http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=19216.msg171013.#msg171013

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au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
Quote from: jfb
US aircrafts can jam the  Infra Red Thermal guidance of most missiles; in addition, on a stealth aircraft,  the emitted gas is cooled down before to get out of the turbine in order to minimize detection. Normally the best way to detect such aircrafts is to use long wavelenght, wich means a powerfull emittor and you need to guide the missile from the ground.

I have not seen any fuel exhaust cooling system on US Stealth Aircrafts F-22 and F-35.

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