Author Topic: US "air war" against Iran, threats and solutions (Read 5714 times)

nelsa · « **Reply #75 on:** December 18, 2011, 09:26:36 AM »

Exuse me,we don't know RQ-170 is stealth,i'm know for sure that now stupid Americans finaly understad that planes like F-22/35 expecualy B-2(which is 1000x biggier than that dron)are uselles against Iran,I'm from Bosnia & Herzegovina and i can tell you that serbs in '99 shot down F-117 with old S-125 without any upgrade sistem,i have video clip where Dani Zoltan admit that any upgrade isn't been at sistem and he said that before only as propaganda olso in that video clip he said that F-117 descover old P-18 radar than operater is on radio said that is target in the air(they didn't know that was F-117)after that operator on the s-125 was turn on sa-3 radar and after 2-3 second on screen he sow 3 target and chose 1 and shot down ,all of this was complete in 21 second,he say olso that after that one B-2 was discover and lock on and missle was fire and hit but that wasn't confirme because b-2 wasn't total destroy and pilot was flydown in some other country,but b-2 named "ghost of missouri" from '99 wasn't in operational status in USAF.I will post video clip where all SA-3 team was talk about this but they speak serb lang.Sory for my bad english and I hope Iranian people will show USA that they can't win in any scenario in Iran.

ichari · « **Reply #76 on:** January 08, 2012, 11:37:49 AM »

http://www.nato-pa.int/default.asp?SHORTCUT=900

Catsoo · « **Reply #77 on:** January 08, 2012, 03:43:12 PM »

Thanks Ichari!

Catsoo

Ich · « **Reply #78 on:** January 08, 2012, 11:00:24 PM »

Quote from: ichari on January 08, 2012, 11:37:49 AM

http://www.nato-pa.int/default.asp?SHORTCUT=900

"Please, hand me over your weapons so i can be aggressiv against you without risk. And if you also stfu, we will "help" you to plunder all your resources."

Me thinks, that if you are living in a country where a lot of earthquakes happened, you can hide an A-test easy between two aftershocks...

Numbers · « **Reply #79 on:** January 10, 2012, 05:59:42 AM »

to Eagle2009:

Here are ranges of NEBO-SVU long wave Radar.

NEBO-SVU
----------------
0.1= 166km
0.01= 92km
0.001= 66km (F-35 sized target)
0.0001= 38km (F-22 sized target)
----------------

We can not increase range of F-22 detection. Therefore any Anti Stealth SAM (Surface to Air Missile) Network will consist of
40 km diameter circles with NEBO-SVU at each circle's center.

Let say there will be 100 NEBO-SVU positions, 10 by 10 grid. That will cover 400 km by 400 km area (10 x 40 km = 400 km).
So F-22 has to go through 300 kilometers (assuming 100 km distance of air to ground missile release) of protected Air Space in order to get to infrastructure target. Attacking from the left side of Radar grid.

And those 100 NEBO-SVU Radars are not triangulated millimeter wave length Radar. They can detect F-22 for sure if it comes into 40 kilometers range. There is no easy Radar picking while being non detected. Hitting Radar while being undetected is usual tactic of Stealth Aircraft like F-22 against normal millimeter wave length Radars.

Each NEBO-SVU is protected from HARM either by bunker or Oerlikon 35 mm twin Anti Air gun. I-HAWK missile will be equipped with TV/Infra Red seeker to detect F-22. I assume long wave Radar is not accurate by itself for Active Radar Guidence. So passive Infra Red seeker is needed for I-HAWK missile.

There is a second solution. To have TV/Infra Red long range detector of F-22 instead of NEBO-SVU Radar. Though the hypothetical
range will be also short, around 40 kilometers as well.

There is no need for long range missile like S-300VM (range 200 km). I-HAWK missile's range of 40 kilometers matches the detection ranges of NEBO-SVU or passive TV/Infra Red long range detector.

As you can see Eagle2009, Anti Stealth SAM (Surface to Air Missile) Network is possible even if F-22 detection range is short (38 km).

Special Note: Looks like I-HAWK's reverse engineering by Iran will pay off after I-HAWK will be equipped with passive TV/Infra Red seeker. Versatile missile that can hit all kind of Air Targets at the range of 40 kilometers.

Pictures: I-HAWK missiles, NEBO-SVU Radar.

mohsin · « **Reply #80 on:** January 10, 2012, 06:47:12 AM »

only one question. what if U.S decides to attack the nebo radars and their networks from a distance out of its detection range first?

Numbers · « **Reply #81 on:** January 10, 2012, 07:14:21 AM »

Quote from: mohsin on January 10, 2012, 06:47:12 AM

only one question. what if U.S decides to attack the nebo radars and their networks from a distance out of its detection range first?

I have already said:

"Each NEBO-SVU is protected from HARM either by bunker or Oerlikon 35 mm twin Anti Air gun."

Anti Stealth SAM Network is possible if threat of HARM missile is eliminated.

Small version of NEBO-SVU (4 meters x 4 meters on jeep) can be driven into bunker if approaching HARM is detected.

Mr-Babak-S · « **Reply #82 on:** January 12, 2012, 08:17:19 PM »

NEBO-SVU radars can also be protected by having some dummy radars that emit signals, but are not part of any integrated defense.

Those dummy radars can be used to cause the enemy to deplete their HARM missile inventories and distribute the targets so that anti-air guns protecting the real radars will have fewer missiles to contend with.

Numbers · « **Reply #83 on:** January 13, 2012, 09:26:08 AM »

Quote from: Mr-Babak-S on January 12, 2012, 08:17:19 PM

NEBO-SVU radars can also be protected by having some dummy radars that emit signals, but are not part of any integrated defense.

That strategy is too expensive.

"Fake Target" Radar has to have the same power source and the same antenna as operational NEBO-SVU.
You need NEBO-SVU to emulate NEBO-SVU.

So you have to pay for one additional functional NEBO-SVU that will be used as "Fake Target". It will stand there and emmit Radar Signal like near by operational NEBO-SVUs. Except "Fake Target" NEBO-SVU will not be connected to Missile Launcher, Anti Air Gun and Bunker Tunnel.

Thus "Fake Target" strategy for NEBO-SVU is too expensive.

It is better to have all NEBO-SVUs in inventory used as operational functional combat units connected to Missile Launcher, Anti Air Gun and Bunker Tunnel.

YMJ · « **Reply #84 on:** January 13, 2012, 09:12:55 PM »

Quote from: Numbers on January 13, 2012, 09:26:08 AM

That strategy is too expensive.

I'm not sure how anti radar missiles work, but why would it be expensive to broadcast a radar signal as a dummy, in order to save your true radar?

Jonk89 · « **Reply #85 on:** January 14, 2012, 02:35:32 AM »

U.S and israel will be surprised closed handed. What we are showing to the world in our military maneuvers are nothing compare to what we have and didn't show. Element of surprise will destroy them. We are not going to use the same tactics we all saw in you tube, They are going to be ready for those tactics while we have something else cooked for them. Iranian military is not stupid to display its military tactics so the enemy can prepare itself. We are chess players. If U.S and israel start a war with us, then they will enter an unknown war, written in no military history books. Let them use their dolphins.

reza18 · « **Reply #86 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:55:45 AM »

Quote

That strategy is too expensive.

Numbers jan, I don't think the strategy is expensive..In Vietnam, the Vietcong did it with great success..The use to setup dummy radio transmitters, which are cheap btw, to attract enemy attack jets into their firing range..A dummy radio transmitter is not expensive to build. It served two purposes: 1. Lure the paranoid US fighter-jet into a safe target zone for the Vietcong 2.To make the attack jet loose focus and targeting transmitting sites and wasting precious missiles instead of focusing on their real mission..

Iran can use this strategy...Remember the recent Libyan war? NATO targeted almost anything that transmitted any kind of signal. From TV to radio transmission sites. This can be used to their disadvantage

stormbringa · « **Reply #87 on:** January 15, 2012, 07:09:24 PM »

Nebo is vulnerable even without stealth aircraft. Here is link to a pic of a Georgian Nebo taken out:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/nebodamagedx.jpg/

Liverpool Forever · « **Reply #88 on:** January 20, 2012, 05:26:16 PM »

The first danger to Iranian Air Defence,is tomahawks. US will use thousands of tomahawk missiles,from warships in PG or in indian Ocean
Has iran anything against long range cruise missiles?

reza18 · « **Reply #89 on:** January 21, 2012, 09:05:29 AM »

Quote

Has iran anything against long range cruise missiles?

Maybe they do, maybe they don't..But they definitely have something against their warships in the PG or Indian ocean...

Ich · « **Reply #90 on:** January 21, 2012, 10:06:03 AM »

Quote from: Liverpool Forever on January 20, 2012, 05:26:16 PM

The first danger to Iranian Air Defence,is tomahawks. US will use thousands of tomahawk missiles,from warships in PG or in indian Ocean
Has iran anything against long range cruise missiles?

There wont be "thousends of thomahawk missiles". In 1991 there are only 300. So lets say if it happend, there will be 600-900.

Liverpool Forever · « **Reply #91 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM »

Quote from: Ich on January 21, 2012, 10:06:03 AM

There wont be "thousends of thomahawk missiles". In 1991 there are only 300. So lets say if it happend, there will be 600-900.

The United States Navy has a stockpile of around 3,500 Tomahawk cruise missiles of all variants

Ich · « **Reply #92 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:10:35 PM »

Quote from: Liverpool Forever on January 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM

The United States Navy has a stockpile of around 3,500 Tomahawk cruise missiles of all variants

Maybe, but not all around Iran.

Jonk89 · « **Reply #93 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:30:19 PM »

After firing a few Tomahawk cruse missiles, their ships will be destroyed. I doubt if they can even be able to lunch a few missiles before their whole fleets come under fire.

Liverpool Forever · « **Reply #94 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:04:48 PM »

Quote from: Jonk89 on January 21, 2012, 06:30:19 PM

After firing a few Tomahawk cruse missiles, their ships will be destroyed. I doubt if they can even be able to lunch a few missiles before their whole fleets come under fire.

excuse me,but how Iran can do this?
their ships will be nearly 1000-1300 km away from iranian Coast.

Ich
at last half of them will be around iran, without these missiles, US will have less chances against iranian Air defense.

Iranthebest · « **Reply #95 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:29:29 PM »

Quote from: Liverpool Forever on January 20, 2012, 05:26:16 PM

The first danger to Iranian Air Defence,is tomahawks. US will use thousands of tomahawk missiles,from warships in PG or in indian Ocean
Has iran anything against long range cruise missiles?

I would like to know aswel. what do we have to counter these tomahawk threat ? be sure that the enemy will resort to launching of hundreds of cruise missiles

Pasdar · « **Reply #96 on:** January 21, 2012, 08:59:23 PM »

The US will quite definitely not send any air force or ground force into Iran and it would quite definitely not attack by ship from the Persian gulf or the gulf of Oman. It would start by firing many missiles in the hope of destroying Iran's air defense, power plants, bridges, etc, etc... putting the country chaos.

It would do so without warning and at a moment it thinks it's unexpected, and before that say 'we don't want a war', like right now. These people are cowards and Iran should expect them to fight like the Mongols.

Mr-Babak-S · « **Reply #97 on:** January 21, 2012, 09:05:33 PM »

Quote

what do we have to counter these tomahawk threat ? be sure that the enemy will resort to launching of hundreds of cruise missiles

The following thread may give one example of how Iran may defend against cruise missiles:

http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/air-defences/iran-delivered-%27sair%27-100-mm-automatic-airdefence-gun-to-irgc/

zainabia · « **Reply #98 on:** January 30, 2012, 02:00:39 PM »

Quote from: Numbers on January 10, 2012, 05:59:42 AM

to Eagle2009:

Here are ranges of NEBO-SVU long wave Radar.

NEBO-SVU
----------------
0.1= 166km
0.01= 92km
0.001= 66km (F-35 sized target)
0.0001= 38km (F-22 sized target)
----------------

We can not increase range of F-22 detection. Therefore any Anti Stealth SAM (Surface to Air Missile) Network will consist of
40 km diameter circles with NEBO-SVU at each circle's center.

Let say there will be 100 NEBO-SVU positions, 10 by 10 grid. That will cover 400 km by 400 km area (10 x 40 km = 400 km).
So F-22 has to go through 300 kilometers (assuming 100 km distance of air to ground missile release) of protected Air Space in order to get to infrastructure target. Attacking from the left side of Radar grid.

And those 100 NEBO-SVU Radars are not triangulated millimeter wave length Radar. They can detect F-22 for sure if it comes into 40 kilometers range. There is no easy Radar picking while being non detected. Hitting Radar while being undetected is usual tactic of Stealth Aircraft like F-22 against normal millimeter wave length Radars.

Each NEBO-SVU is protected from HARM either by bunker or Oerlikon 35 mm twin Anti Air gun. I-HAWK missile will be equipped with TV/Infra Red seeker to detect F-22. I assume long wave Radar is not accurate by itself for Active Radar Guidence. So passive Infra Red seeker is needed for I-HAWK missile.

There is a second solution. To have TV/Infra Red long range detector of F-22 instead of NEBO-SVU Radar. Though the hypothetical range will be also short, around 40 kilometers as well.

There is no need for long range missile like S-300VM (range 200 km). I-HAWK missile's range of 40 kilometers matches the detection ranges of NEBO-SVU or passive TV/Infra Red long range detector.

As you can see Eagle2009, Anti Stealth SAM (Surface to Air Missile) Network is possible even if F-22 detection range is short (38 km).

Special Note: Looks like I-HAWK's reverse engineering by Iran will pay off after I-HAWK will be equipped with passive TV/Infra Red seeker. Versatile missile that can hit all kind of Air Targets at the range of 40 kilometers.

Pictures: I-HAWK missiles, NEBO-SVU Radar.

For me, this TV/Infra Red long range detector information is most interesting thing.

Would it be possible for any one to shed more light upon this? For example:-

1. What is the max. exact Range of TV/Infra Red? (Already stated above about 40 Km and is equal to NEBO radar for F22).

If it is so, then why is this option not considered better than NEBO radar, while it stays undetected itself and does not have to face the danger of HARM missiles?

2. What is the SIZE of such TV/Infra Red system as compared to NEBO? Is it small enough to stay undetected to satellite Cameras of Enemy?

3. What is the price of such system as compared to NEBO system?

4. How good is this TV/Infra Red System in Guiding the missiles towards the targets as compared to NEBO & other such active Radar Systems?

In fact, I want knowledgeable people to discuss in details the topic of "NEBO VS TV/Infrared" and state all the positive & negative aspects of both system.

Thanks.

jfb · « **Reply #99 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:37:00 AM »

Quote from: Numbers on July 14, 2010, 04:03:13 AM

The solution to the above mentioned threats is the upgrade of existing Iran anti air missiles.
First, every missile must have extended 30 kilometers altitude. Second, every missile needs an Infra Red Thermal guidence to lock on stealth planes. In this case no "triangulation" of Ground Radars is required and "Next Generation Jammer" will not help against a passive Infra Red guidence seeker.

US aircrafts can jam the Infra Red Thermal guidance of most missiles; in addition, on a stealth aircraft, the emitted gas is cooled down before to get out of the turbine in order to minimize detection. Normally the best way to detect such aircrafts is to use long wavelenght, wich means a powerfull emittor and you need to guide the missile from the ground. Check this: www.ausairpower.net/APA-Nebo-SVU-Analysis.html