Author Topic: Comment I came across (Read 3091 times)

IronHorse110 · « **on:** May 15, 2010, 09:57:31 PM »

This is a comment i came across Shiachat.com. I just thought id have some fun with it here .

"It looks like an RC model if I may be honest.

Here's the deal. Iran's attack choppers need MASSIVE revamps, if you're planning to engage in successful combat operations against ANYONE.

That means the choppers must have unmanned flight control options, whereby the helicopter takes control of itself for a period of time while the operators of the vehicle focus on firing on their targets.

That means you need hellfire missiles and guns. Havent you seen those youtube videos of Americans shooting at Iraqis from a far distance, using infrared vision? You need that. That gives you stealth. You can be at 10,000 ft and many miles away from your target while zooming into your ground enemy troops from the help of a screen in the cockpit. Then you just aim and shoot. Bang bang bang and the gun ammo reaches your targets after a 1 or 2 second lag. It finishes them off while they cant even spot you.

THAT is how it should be done"

Quote

That means the choppers must have unmanned flight control options, whereby the helicopter takes control of itself for a period of time while the operators of the vehicle focus on firing on their targets.

Thats a great option for aiming at women and childeren. In a real war situation you'r either moving, or your toast.

Quote

That means you need hellfire missiles and guns. Havent you seen those youtube videos of Americans shooting at Iraqis from a far distance, using infrared vision?

Like i said a great way to aim at women and childeren.

Quote

Then you just aim and shoot. Bang bang bang and the gun ammo reaches your targets after a 1 or 2 second lag. It finishes them off while they cant even spot you.

Ive seen that killing innocent Iraqis on wikilinks.com.

Crazy Ivan · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2010, 12:07:30 AM »

Quote from: YMJ on May 15, 2010, 09:57:31 PM

This is a comment i came across Shiachat.com. I just thought id have some fun with it here .

"It looks like an RC model if I may be honest.

Here's the deal. Iran's attack choppers need MASSIVE revamps, if you're planning to engage in successful combat operations against ANYONE.

That means the choppers must have unmanned flight control options, whereby the helicopter takes control of itself for a period of time while the operators of the vehicle focus on firing on their targets.

That means you need hellfire missiles and guns. Havent you seen those youtube videos of Americans shooting at Iraqis from a far distance, using infrared vision? You need that. That gives you stealth. You can be at 10,000 ft and many miles away from your target while zooming into your ground enemy troops from the help of a screen in the cockpit. Then you just aim and shoot. Bang bang bang and the gun ammo reaches your targets after a 1 or 2 second lag. It finishes them off while they cant even spot you.

THAT is how it should be done"

Thats a great option for aiming at women and childeren. In a real war situation you'r either moving, or your toast.

Like i said a great way to aim at women and childeren.

Ive seen that killing innocent Iraqis on wikilinks.com.

Did you know you could kill a bunch of ranting and whiny forum-goers with user names that start with Y and end in J?

The Iranian · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2010, 02:45:32 AM »

Quote from: Crazy Ivan on May 16, 2010, 12:07:30 AM

Did you know you could kill a bunch of ranting and whiny forum-goers with user names that start with Y and end in J?

look Crazy, only in IMF do we die from laughter at usernames with the name, Ivan! go and bother someone else ok?

YMJ,

the guy has a point you know, irans air force is fairly week in all departments. for example, logistics is poor, we may have but 20-30 medium-large size transport choppers. the attack choppers are a joke, although the new one does hold some promise. i agree that US forces misused the technology to 'take out frustrations' on innocent iraqis. yet i dont believe our boys would never do that, we'd target them. so there is room for improvement, but the guy did sound like a 13 year old! LOL

Crazy Ivan · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2010, 03:48:59 AM »

Quote from: The Iranian on May 16, 2010, 02:45:32 AM

look Crazy, only in IMF do we die from laughter at usernames with the name, Ivan! go and bother someone else ok?

You tell me that while YMJ just blatantly did the same?

IronHorse110 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2010, 06:35:22 AM »

Quote from: Crazy Ivan on May 16, 2010, 12:07:30 AM

Did you know you could kill a bunch of ranting and whiny forum-goers with user names that start with Y and end in J?

Would you like to try and kill me? Or should i wait for your corrupt government to?

aryana · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2010, 06:08:02 PM »

Quote from: YMJ on May 16, 2010, 06:35:22 AM

Would you like to try and kill me? Or should i wait for your corrupt government to?

which goverment

IronHorse110 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2010, 08:34:14 PM »

Quote from: aryana on May 16, 2010, 06:08:02 PM

which goverment

Good question.

Crazy Ivan · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2010, 08:36:58 PM »

Quote from: YMJ on May 16, 2010, 08:34:14 PM

Good question.

I actually agree with you on the corrupt.

Shirazi · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2010, 08:57:02 PM »

Quote from: The Iranian on May 16, 2010, 02:45:32 AM

the guy has a point you know, irans air force is fairly week in all departments. for example, logistics is poor, we may have but 20-30 medium-large size transport choppers. the attack choppers are a joke, although the new one does hold some promise. i agree that US forces misused the technology to 'take out frustrations' on innocent iraqis. yet i dont believe our boys would never do that, we'd target them. so there is room for improvement, but the guy did sound like a 13 year old! LOL

I disagree, we have ~40 Tom operational Tomcats and Mig-29s and 36 su-24s, 24 Mirage F1s as well has ~140 F-5s & F-4s (combined) and 10 Su-25s, it's still a fairly decent air force.

As for logistics and helicopters, we have one of the largest helicopter fleets in the world, much more than the 20-30 you state. We don't lack any attack or transport helicopters.

As for the attack helicopters being a joke, which ones are you referring to?

We also have tons and tons of missiles and artillery rocks (zelzals & nazeat) to compensate for our old fleet of planes.

On top of that, we have fairly advanced and completely Iranian UAVs which will provide good real time intelligence.

aryana · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2010, 10:10:57 PM »

i think we should focus more on air defence than airforce

The Iranian · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2010, 10:06:58 AM »

Quote from: Crazy Ivan on May 16, 2010, 03:48:59 AM

You tell me that while YMJ just blatantly did the same?

you trolled first, andy

Quote from: Shirazi on May 16, 2010, 08:57:02 PM

I disagree, we have ~40 Tom operational Tomcats and Mig-29s and 36 su-24s, 24 Mirage F1s as well has ~140 F-5s & F-4s (combined) and 10 Su-25s, it's still a fairly decent air force.

As for logistics and helicopters, we have one of the largest helicopter fleets in the world, much more than the 20-30 you state. We don't lack any attack or transport helicopters.

As for the attack helicopters being a joke, which ones are you referring to?

We also have tons and tons of missiles and artillery rocks (zelzals & nazeat) to compensate for our old fleet of planes.

On top of that, we have fairly advanced and completely Iranian UAVs which will provide good real time intelligence.

with the exeption of the tomcats (i doubt all 40 are operation) and the mig-29s, the rest are pretty much target practice compared to what we'll be up against as a nation. shirazi, please look at wiki, i counted no more than 20-30 half decent transport, inc. chinooks, the rest you claim could only carry the abgoosht for a few IRCG generals. our attack helicopters are rubbish, we dont have hellfire type missiles on them, we couldnt combat an Apache to save our lives with what we have.

air defence is a beast i agree with you on that, and our UAV's are comming along.

but i seriously think our air force needs to have better scrambling abilities and carpet bombing abilities. how is an f-4 going to do that.

lets be a bit logical.

Quote from: aryana on May 16, 2010, 10:10:57 PM

i think we should focus more on air defence than airforce

we cant put all our chickens in one basket, we will pay the price heavily for that.

Shirazi · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2010, 10:41:27 AM »

Quote from: The Iranian on May 17, 2010, 10:06:58 AM

lets be a bit logical.

You should have started your post by saying that then just stopped typing up the rest of your post.

Iran has one of the largest helicopter fleets in the world, no matter what wiki says. We have tons of bell-214s and over 100 heavy Russian transport helicopters, to supplement the Chinooks.

As for attack helicopters, we have over 120 AH-1js which are not rubbish by anyone's standards and attack helicopters are not meant to fight other helicopters.

And how do you know that 40 tomcats aren't operational, did wiki say so?

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2010, 04:32:07 PM »

The problem with the Wiki page on the IRIAF is that its based on Aviation Weekly's yearly estimate on World Air Forces..which while a good source of aviation news, they are notorious for errors in their World Air Forces reviews (for example this last year they claimed Iran has Mirage F1A not EQs lol). No one really knows how many helicopters Iran still has, but before the Revolution they had one of the largests in the world (close to 700!) including 202 AH-1s, 338 Bell 214s, and many other types. The Chinooks are actually very interesting because I believe some were imported from Italy after the revolution (as were Agusta-Bell 205s and 206s) and Iran has proven to be able to maintain all of their helos but as far as I have seen there is no real way to estimate how many are operational today though most estimate it around 400 total helos (attack, transport etc) which includes newer types like the Mi-17 (with estimates varying from 36-100 depending on the source).

Dariush94 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2010, 04:59:15 PM »

Quote from: Shirazi on May 17, 2010, 10:41:27 AM

And how do you know that 40 tomcats aren't operational, did wiki say so?

Everybody knows wikipedia is not the best source for the Iranian Air Force, but its impossible to think that iran can keep their 40 tomcats operational with no market for any spare parts and other necessary equipment. And not to forget the tomcats are pretty old and i think i wouldn't lie if i said that the Tomcats who retired in America in 2009 had better avionics, radars,... than the Tomcats of Iran. Also the Iranian tomcats cannot be used at full capacity because of the lack of Phoenix missiles which are not made anymore.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:13:27 PM »

Firstly, The US Navy retired F-14s in 2006 not 2009. Secondly, while the US did order in 2009 to destroy/scrap all F-14s to make sure no spare parts make it to Iran, I think Iran can produce enough spare parts to keep theirs going. Its hardly believable they've relied solely on blackmarket parts for over 30 years...Also we see Iran shows AIM-7s being carried by some of its fighters and they are even older than the AIM-54s so we can also conclude Iran can likely refurbish these missiles (the electronics, engines and warhead) but I agree in that we hardly ever seen AIM-54s anymore and see more AIM-23C Sejils on F-14s these days. However I suspect this may be because either Iran is still working on building its own AIM-54 and the AIM-23 is a temporary substitute/complement weapon or they simply dont have any left. I dont honestly know which is true but its always safer to bet they have them and they choose not to show them. Most sources agree that roughly 55 F-14s survived the war. Now between cannibalization and age I personally think they are likely between 25-35 operational F-14s but since Iran has shown to be able to repair/overhaul them to some extent (and maybe soon build replacement engines for them) I think these numbers could increase very soon but again as I said before its nearly impossible to get a real fix on how many are operational today.

Shirazi · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:13:37 PM »

Quote from: Dariush94 on May 17, 2010, 04:59:15 PM

Everybody knows wikipedia is not the best source for the Iranian Air Force, but its impossible to think that iran can keep their 40 tomcats operational with no market for any spare parts and other necessary equipment. And not to forget the tomcats are pretty old and i think i wouldn't lie if i said that the Tomcats who retired in America in 2009 had better avionics, radars,... than the Tomcats of Iran. Also the Iranian tomcats cannot be used at full capacity because of the lack of Phoenix missiles which are not made anymore.

Iran has more than 40 Tomcats, i said around 40 operational. I know for a fact that by the mid 90s they were building everything but some parts of the engines and some parts of the avionics. 15 years have passed since then and a year ago they made a jet that had crashed 12 years ago operational. So i think 40 is a fair estimate.

Dariush94 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:29:59 PM »

So how many in total if iran has 40 operational? Because some sources are very pessimistic rating the total operational tomcats from 15-24 and the total to 30-40

Shirazi · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:33:06 PM »

Well just look at how many went down and detract from 79, i think no more than 20 crashed which leaves around 60 at most. Personally, i think we have more than 40 operational. why would we make a crashed F-14 operational if we have F-14s in stock that are lacking spares? We've advanced so much since the 90s and if we could build most of the components back then, there is no reason to doubt we can build nearly all of it now.

Dariush94 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:44:14 PM »

If Iran has more than 40 tomcats operational then we could speak of a more than decent air force(in that case iran would have a fleet of more than 80 4th Gen Fighters(including the fulcrums)), but what is the quality of those 40 tomcats compared to those of America(who are as mentioned before already retired). IMO iran can keep them in the air at the expense of quality.If that is true the Tomcats of Iran are of poor use right now and they should better keep a lower number of aircraft into service to increase the quality of the tomcats.

Shirazi · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:47:15 PM »

Quote from: Dariush94 on May 17, 2010, 05:44:14 PM

If Iran has more than 40 tomcats operational then we could speak of a more than decent air force(in that case iran would have a fleet of more than 80 4th Gen Fighters(including the fulcrums)), but what is the quality of those 40 tomcats compared to those of America(who are as mentioned before already retired). IMO iran can keep them in the air at the expense of quality.If that is true the Tomcats of Iran are of poor use right now and they should better keep a lower number of aircraft into service to increase the quality of the tomcats.

Where do you get the idea that there is a trade off between quality and quantity? And it is futile to compare the IRIAF to the USAF. We could have 300 Su-30s and we'd still be no match for the USAF.

Dariush94 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:54:08 PM »

The reason why i compare the F-14's of Iran with those of America is because the american F-14 would be the best upgraded tomcats that exists and those should be our goal to achieve for our tomcats.
And the quantity and quality thing: Iran used to have Phoenix Missiles, now they use Hawk missiles(this means you throw away a lot of the tomcats radar ability),and spare parts made in Iran are not original and may lack the quality that american parts had. If this wasn't the case why would America scrap all their tomcats so iran couldn't get anything of them and why is iran still trying to aquire spare parts for their tomcats in foreign countries?

Shirazi · « **Reply #21 on:** May 17, 2010, 06:02:24 PM »

Quote from: Dariush94 on May 17, 2010, 05:54:08 PM

The reason why i compare the F-14's of Iran with those of America is because the american F-14 would be the best upgraded tomcats that exists and those should be our goal to achieve for our tomcats.
And the quantity and quality thing: Iran used to have Phoenix Missiles, now they use Hawk missiles(this means you throw away a lot of the tomcats radar ability),and spare parts made in Iran are not original and may lack the quality that american parts had. If this wasn't the case why would America scrap all their tomcats so iran couldn't get anything of them and why is iran still trying to aquire spare parts for their tomcats in foreign countries?

Well Iran does upgrade their F-14s. One of the latest upgrades was to give them ground mapping capabilities so that they can be used in the strike role and carry PGMs and the IAO is working on a 100km AAM for them.

America scrapping their F-14s (which was more to do with lobbying and buying more F-18s and F-35s) has nothing to do with Iran's ability to reverse engineer the F-14. The comment about the copies having lower quality is just offensive, in reality they actually use lighter and better composites (which not that many people know, Iran really excels in) for the parts, so if anything they're of a better quality.

Dariush94 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 17, 2010, 06:08:44 PM »

If all that you say is true then iran has a pretty good Air Force up in the skies

but i read somewhere that they can only keep a limited amount of tomcats in the skies at the same time...

Shirazi · « **Reply #23 on:** May 17, 2010, 06:11:53 PM »

Quote from: Dariush94 on May 17, 2010, 06:08:44 PM

If all that you say is true then iran has a pretty good Air Force up in the skies but i read somewhere that they can only keep a limited amount of tomcats in the skies at the same time...

Well not an excellent air force but still not a bad one. The internet is filled with all sorts of rumors and i wouldn't be surprised if your source also stated that Iran is cannibalizing its fleet to keep a few operational.

Dariush94 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 17, 2010, 06:15:57 PM »

But what is your source,have you seen them?