Author Topic: Iran planning to build a new jet fighter (Read 8433 times)

Emirzaad · « **Reply #50 on:** December 14, 2011, 09:11:34 PM »

guys dont loose hope .. we have surprised the world before with our submarines , and missiles etc we will do it again with new fighter jet ... with the new stealth drone in hand , i m hopeful for Sofreh Mahi UCAV ....

Catsoo · « **Reply #51 on:** December 14, 2011, 10:08:13 PM »

Iranian top brass has been well aware of where their budget would get the biggest bang in defence of Iran. With the technology at hand and the current sanctions, it would be a waste of money to invest in any new designed aircraft.

Iran's adversaries have the best air forces known to history and nothing Iran could produce that would help Iran's military capability in the air. It has been very wise for Iran to divert attention to where its adversary can be vulnerable. That is why a good portion of Iranian military budget has been allocated missiles and air defence.

Manufacturing a new jet fighter is very expensive and in the end it will not give much leverage to Iranian military. A jet fighter is designed to perform something like 30 years of service. Iran needs access to better powerplants and an up to date radar not to mention other avionics, weaponry and a new carbon fiber material.

Some of these technologies have been available already more or less but the radar and a suitable powerplant have not been available.

However, with the past two weeks events which let to capture of the latest US air force technology things could be very different. The two most important technologies now in the hands of Iranians are the stealth technology and the top of the line AESA radar. These are the two technologies that have made F-22 and B-2 to be the master of skies.

If Iran could reverse engineer the technologies at its disposal, then the military strategy of Iran will definitely change so much that budgets for such endeavors do not seem a waste any longer.

Stay tuned!

Catsoo

aryana · « **Reply #52 on:** December 15, 2011, 12:18:02 AM »

Quote from: Catsoo on December 14, 2011, 10:08:13 PM

Iranian top brass has been well aware of where their budget would get the biggest bang in defence of Iran. With the technology at hand and the current sanctions, it would be a waste of money to invest in any new designed aircraft.

Iran's adversaries have the best air forces known to history and nothing Iran could produce that would help Iran's military capability in the air. It has been very wise for Iran to divert attention to where its adversary can be vulnerable. That is why a good portion of Iranian military budget has been allocated missiles and air defence.

Manufacturing a new jet fighter is very expensive and in the end it will not give much leverage to Iranian military. A jet fighter is designed to perform something like 30 years of service. Iran needs access to better powerplants and an up to date radar not to mention other avionics, weaponry and a new carbon fiber material.

Some of these technologies have been available already more or less but the radar and a suitable powerplant have not been available.

However, with the past two weeks events which let to capture of the latest US air force technology things could be very different. The two most important technologies now in the hands of Iranians are the stealth technology and the top of the line AESA radar. These are the two technologies that have made F-22 and B-2 to be the master of skies.

If Iran could reverse engineer the technologies at its disposal, then the military strategy of Iran will definitely change so much that budgets for such endeavors do not seem a waste any longer.

Stay tuned!

Catsoo

if they have been aware why do they say they are designing a new fighter once in a while for the last 14 years.

Numbers · « **Reply #53 on:** January 09, 2012, 07:02:18 AM »

Quote from: Catsoo on December 14, 2011, 10:08:13 PM

Iran's adversaries have the best air forces known to history and nothing Iran could produce that would help Iran's military capability in the air. It has been very wise for Iran to divert attention to where its adversary can be vulnerable. That is why a good portion of Iranian military budget has been allocated missiles and air defence.

Well, it is surprise that Anti Air Missiles and Anti Ship Missiles became the greatest threat to NATO due to passive optical TV/IR guidence.
With passive TV/IR guidence missile can not be jammed and has very high accuracy.

Of course, Iran will maximise its missile arsenal to hurt NATO Air Force and NATO Naval Force more.

Catsoo · « **Reply #54 on:** January 09, 2012, 02:18:50 PM »

Quote

if they have been aware why do they say they are designing a new fighter once in a while for the last 14 years.

Again a dubious question from you! Could you do me a favor and think deeper next time you ask your question which for most part should be obvious to you for as long as you have been here as a member.

Iran has been "developing" new aircrafts for air force as we have seen with Tazarve, Saegheh or Azarakhs or even Shafagh. The developments of such machines are quite natural and will continue until the air force is convinced a viable machine is within reach.

Go back to my post and read it again, I did mention the shortcomings in Iranian technologies for a viable fighter. I also mentioned that with the new technologies at Iran's disposal through RQ-170 Iran may be closing the gap. But before we see these technologies implemented in a whole new aircraft we will be seeing them used on the current fleet as an upgrade and as technologyproof of concept.

Catsoo

Numbers · « **Reply #55 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:00:29 AM »

to nomad:

Iran can build airframe of Saeqeh from multi-layer Stealth Plastic Panels even right now.
There is no need to bolt Stealth Panels after. It will only waste time of Airplane factories.

So the best choice is to build Light Stealth Interceptor (Saeqeh) from beginning.
1 Light Stealth Interceptor (Saeqeh) : 1 F-35 is good ratio.

Saeqeh made of Plastic Panels will look cool. Saeqeh has already got cool looking airframe.

jalal · « **Reply #56 on:** February 11, 2012, 07:34:22 PM »

I agree with almost everything you have said.
Development of new modern fighter is costly and time consuming and at the moment is out of Iran reach, too many obstacle has to be over come before we can see 5Th generation fighter coming out of Iran.
But having said that because the main need of Iran in facing the challenges from outside is a descent interceptor that does not cost and arm and leg and remedy some of Air force short coming plus to be a platform for training new pilots with newer technologies around, I would not mind to see if Iran follows the Syrian and buys 40 or 50 Yak 130 at 15 Million each to bring Air force to better shape until the other projects bear fruit.

ZamZam · « **Reply #57 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:11:35 PM »

Quote from: jalal on February 11, 2012, 07:34:22 PM

I agree with almost everything you have said.
Development of new modern fighter is costly and time consuming and at the moment is out of Iran reach, too many obstacle has to be over come before we can see 5Th generation fighter coming out of Iran.
But having said that because the main need of Iran in facing the challenges from outside is a descent interceptor that does not cost and arm and leg and remedy some of Air force short coming plus to be a platform for training new pilots with newer technologies around, I would not mind to see if Iran follows the Syrian and buys 40 or 50 Yak 130 at 15 Million each to bring Air force to better shape until the other projects bear fruit.

Having that rq-170 will help speed some things up a bit

jalal · « **Reply #58 on:** February 13, 2012, 07:11:07 PM »

If they can reverse engineer the jet engine and use it on their own drons and make them stay up as long as American drons and Israeli's, it will be a great leap forward.

Harry_Thomason · « **Reply #59 on:** February 13, 2012, 07:30:33 PM »

Any update on shafaq? Its under development for ~10 years, advanced stealth 4.5+ or even 5th gen.

Inside:

The best looking non-US fighter IMO.

neosinan · « **Reply #60 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:52:57 PM »

shafaq is no macth to f35 & f22 for now beside that Against any attack from US posiable start with b2 and f22 which can see all of your patrol aircraft and know where your military base is.Before Iranian aircraft take off they certainly can destroy your all defence line. only thing Iran can is make a nuke send it inside sunmarine and blow up all US navy one in for all.
Also I wanna say that If iran wanna destroy American warship yu must sent at least 6 missile to each warship simotenously (cıws of us can stop only 5 at time same time) because of this is imposible to do in short time period.Yu realy should make nuke in a couple month.

Numbers · « **Reply #61 on:** February 14, 2012, 02:00:35 AM »

Quote from: Harry_Thomason on February 13, 2012, 07:30:33 PM

Any update on shafaq? Its under development for ~10 years, advanced stealth 4.5+ or even 5th gen.
The best looking non-US fighter IMO.

Shafaq looks like 5th generation Light Attack Aircraft. Due to its Stealth technology.

And it costs 34 millions USD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shafaq

M-ATF · « **Reply #62 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:14:02 PM »

Shafagh project has been cancelled.

WUDANGMASTER · « **Reply #63 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:09:36 PM »

^^ 3 years after the official cancellation, people still don't get it.....

rouz · « **Reply #64 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:43:50 PM »

Quote from: WUDANGMASTER on February 14, 2012, 08:09:36 PM

^^ 3 years after the official cancellation, people still don't get it.....

huh?

Username · « **Reply #65 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:47:43 PM »

Quote from: Catsoo on October 07, 2011, 05:38:01 PM

Iran to Build New Fighter Jet
Also in 2008, the country's Defense Industries launched production lines of two well-known home-made fighter jets, namely Saeqeh (Thunderbolt) and Azarakhsh (Lightening).

This so called "production line" has produced (at best estimateds) less than a dozen aircraft in over four years. This is roughly 2-3 aircrafts per year. There are some subtle differences between some of these aircrafts such as the air intakes on some Saegheh aircraft. IMO this can not be considered a production line as much as it is a "prototype production" line. A number of systems and sub-systems that are developed and improved on Azarakhsh and Saegheh aircrafts will probably end up in the new aircraft if and when it rolls out of the hanger doors. Therefore I don't expect an entiely new aircraft, but an improved and updated version of the current aircrafts.

Emirzaad · « **Reply #66 on:** February 15, 2012, 02:35:24 AM »

Hesa is planning on something big . New generation of Iranian Tiger copies is due soon and we expect to see a new design . Shafagh , Saeqeh , Azarakhsh all combined ....

M-ATF · « **Reply #67 on:** February 15, 2012, 11:14:09 AM »

I think before talking about building new fighter, Iran should build capable radar for aircrafts and engine.Personally I believe despite all advances on UAV's Iran should build manned fighter jets, but development of radars and engines is necessary for both case of development of manned fighters or UCAV's.

Catsoo · « **Reply #68 on:** February 15, 2012, 02:38:25 PM »

Quote

Hesa is planning on something big

Do you know something that most of us don't?

Catsoo

the8march · « **Reply #69 on:** February 15, 2012, 02:57:08 PM »

Quote from: M-ATF on February 15, 2012, 11:14:09 AM

I think before talking about building new fighter, Iran should build capable radar for aircrafts and engine.Personally I believe despite all advances on UAV's Iran should build manned fighter jets, but development of radars and engines is necessary for both case of development of manned fighters or UCAV's.

what they can do easily (and have to do anyway) is air frame testing... RCS measurements on scaled systems ... research on radar absorbing material ... tests of various stealth designs... and very important: functioning ejection seats ... reliable landing gears

I believe as well that a radar and engine have to be there before such a project can start

M-ATF · « **Reply #70 on:** February 15, 2012, 03:09:47 PM »

Quote from: the8march on February 15, 2012, 02:57:08 PM

what they can do easily (and have to do anyway) is air frame testing... RCS measurements on scaled systems ... research on radar absorbing material ... tests of various stealth designs... and very important: functioning ejection seats ... reliable landing gears

I believe as well that a radar and engine have to be there before such a project can start

More than four years ago Iran claimed that has finished design and development of landing gears for supersonic aircrafts and started mass production of it (in HESA company). Unfortunately original reports on news agencies have been removed but that report is available on websites that had quoted this report :

Quote

برای نخستین بار در خاورمیانه ؛

ارابه فرود جنگنده مافوق صوت در وزارت دفاع به مرحله تولید رسید

خبرگزاری فارس: همزمان با سفر استانی هیئت دولت به اصفهان، با حضور وزیر دفاع طراحی و ساخت ارابه فرود هواپیمای جنگنده مافوق صوت در سازمان صنایع هوایی وزارت دفاع پایان یافت و به مرحله تولید رسید.

به گزارش خبرگزاری فارس به نقل از اداره کل تبلیغات دفاعی وزارت دفاع؛ این دستاورد مهم که با همت متخصصان اقتدار آفرین شرکت هواپیما سازی ایران (هسا) طراحی و تولید شده است، علاوه بر صرفه جویی ارزی 250 هزار دلاری برای هر ارابه، ساخت این محصول استراتژیک، که در انحصار سه کشور امریکا، انگلیس و روسیه بود، شکسته شد.
نجار در آیین ویژه‌ای که به همین مناسبت در شرکت هواپیما سازی ایران (هسا) برگزار شد، طی سخنانی طراحی و ساخت انواع قطعات پیچیده‌ هوایی را گامی بزرگ در خودکفایی صنایع دفاعی و نمادی از تحریم شکنی ذکر کرد و افزود: اراده استوار جوانان برومند و متخصصان کشورمان هرگونه تحریم را فاقد کارایی و کاملاً بی‌اثر کرده است.
وزیر دفاع با اشاره به بازدید تاریخی فرمانده معظم کل قوا از نمایشگاه جلوه‌های خودباوری و اقتدار دفاعی وزارت دفاع در روز سوم خرداد گفت: وزارت دفاع در اجرای تدابیر و فرامین فرمانده معظم کل قوا به خلق فناوری‌های مدون و جدید دفاعی شتاب بیشتری خواهد بخشید.
وی پیشرفت‌های صنعت دفاعی را مرهون تعامل خوب صنایع دفاعی با مراکز علمی و دانشگاهی کشور دانست و تاکید کرد: با تقویت جنبش نرم‌افزاری و نهضت علمی و عملی جوانان مستعد و نخبه ایرانی دیگر مرزهای دانش و فناوری در انحصار هیچ قدرتی باقی نخواهد ماند.
نجار در پایان با تجلیل و قدردانی از زحمات و تلاش‌های شرکت صنایع هواپیما سازی ایران گفت: اقدامات این شرکت در طراحی و تولید انواع هواپیما، بالگرد و قطعات مورد نیاز صنعت هوایی موجب غرور، افتخار ملی و تحقق بخش اصل بازدارندگی است.

http://air-mag.blogsky.com/1386/03/06/post-512/

We know Iran has had a project for building Seat Ejector with the name of "Sarir", but I dont know what is the outcome of that project: Have they finished or cancelled the project or they are still working or it?

Harry_Thomason · « **Reply #71 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:22:37 PM »

Quote from: WUDANGMASTER on February 14, 2012, 08:09:36 PM

^^ 3 years after the official cancellation, people still don't get it.....

Didnt see anywhere about shafaq's cancelation. If its true - too bad, Iran is stuck with old tech for now. Granted air defense is far more important, but even a working prototype of 4.5-5th gen fighter would be a huge progress, and massive learning experience.

mamdali · « **Reply #72 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:30:27 PM »

Quote from: M-ATF on February 15, 2012, 11:14:09 AM

I think before talking about building new fighter, Iran should build capable radar for aircrafts and engine.Personally I believe despite all advances on UAV's Iran should build manned fighter jets, but development of radars and engines is necessary for both case of development of manned fighters or UCAV's.

M-ATF-jan, why do you believe Iran should build manned fighters? Can you elaborate in terms of application and effectiveness, know-how, cost, timeline, adversaries, UAV-as-alternative, etc? It seems along all of these parameters buliding a jet fighter is folly and UAVs/UCAVs are the way to go. However, I'd be interested to understand what your line of thinking is.

Mamdali

the8march · « **Reply #73 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:48:36 PM »

There are many reasons for building fighters ... the question should be the opposite!

UAVs need a reliable communication network ... as we know everything can be jammed if not broken in .. the RQ170 is an evidence... Do you afford to lose the contact to all your UAVs?

You need satellite communication for sending data and command signals... The data you have to send and receive from a combat UAV is enorm.. cameras, thermal, radar .... Iran has no Satellites for this task.. and if Iran is able to send satellites will they be able to protect them from the US? No

there are a whole set of reasoning ... no single country in the world is relying or wants to rely on UAVs... even the US ... not every research project they have will be mass produced ... probably they will build UAVs that can do a specific mission but for air superiority you need a supersonic fighter with a trained human brain sitting in it.

mamdali · « **Reply #74 on:** February 15, 2012, 05:12:57 PM »

Quote from: the8march on February 15, 2012, 04:48:36 PM

There are many reasons for building fighters ... the question should be the opposite!

UAVs need a reliable communication network ... as we know everything can be jammed if not broken in .. the RQ170 is an evidence... Do you afford to lose the contact to all your UAVs?

You need satellite communication for sending data and command signals... The data you have to send and receive from a combat UAV is enorm.. cameras, thermal, radar .... Iran has no Satellites for this task.. and if Iran is able to send satellites will they be able to protect them from the US? No

there are a whole set of reasoning ... no single country in the world is relying or wants to rely on UAVs... even the US ... not every research project they have will be mass produced ... probably they will build UAVs that can do a specific mission but for air superiority you need a supersonic fighter with a trained human brain sitting in it.

the8march-jan, you haven't answered my question. Although everything you said might be true (I leave that to the technical experts), it doesn't take an expert to point out that your argument in itself is wrong. You haven't presented a cost-benefit analysis that compares these UAV production problems with the problems of building an nth gen jet fighter that can compete in the near, medium, and long term with opponents systems (UAVs and jet fighters). You must prove jet fighters are easier to build, cost effective, strategically competitve, and indeed provide the defense you're searching for IN COMPARISON to UAVs.

Just saying UAVs are tough to build doesn't make sense if one could easily show jet fighters are even tougher to build.

Mamdali