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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
The IADS defense penetration capability of the F-35 JSF is rated very poorly by analysts. It is gullible to believe Western propaganda.

Russia will take down combat aircraft which penetrate its borders and defeat any attack by any power right now with their sophisticated and highly integrated Air Defense network, which includes about 1500+ combat aircraft and combat trainers:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-01.html
 

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au
3rd lieutenant (ستوان سوم)
They don't have money to buy F-35. The U.S. is broke and its financial system bankrupt! Russia on the other hand has committed to a far more reliable number of around 650 Pak-FA's.

We both said the same thing.

Before Russian Government has purchased 650 5th generation Aircraft "Sukhoi Pak-FA T-50", Russian Government will rely on S-300, S-400 which were reported to detect F-35, F-22.

However it is clear that Russian 4th Generation Aircrafts can not win against 5th Generation Aircrafts US F-35, F-22.

In future Russia will rely on "Sukhoi Pak-FA T-50" 5th Generation Aircrafts and S-300, S-400 Air Defence Missiles in case of war with US.
Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 04:19:16 AM by Numbers

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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
We both said the same thing.

No we didn't. The Su-30MK series can take on the F-35 no problem, and also totally defeat all teen series USAF/ USN types, including the F-18E/F. That is clear! Not what you think.

Before Russian Government has purchased 650 5th generation Aircraft "Sukhoi Pak-FA T-50", Russian Government will rely on S-300, S-400 which were reported to detect F-35, F-22.

Again......discounting the role the RuAF will play in any engagement with any aggressor against Russia. Russia relies on its AF far more than its S300 missile batteries. RuAF is not IRIAF.

However it is clear that Russian 4th Generation Aircrafts can not win against 5th Generation Aircrafts US F-35, F-22.

Again. Any proof? Any article you can post from an Aviation or military source? I have posted a nice article on what the Su-30MK series can bring to the table against pretty much all the current threats in any Theater of Operations


In future Russia will rely on "Sukhoi Pak-FA T-50" 5th Generation Aircrafts and S-300, S-400 Air Defence Missiles in case of war with US.

There will be no war between Russia and the US, because of nuclear parity, and the principle of MAD. Both have gone down this road from the 50's to the 80's during the cold war and pulled back from the brink many times. Conventionally Russia is well prepared to take on any adversary in Europe or against China. No body can attack Russia. The only way is to destabilize it internally. That's it.

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Brother Skylark
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fi
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
Russian foundament of her economy is far more shaky than US one. The US economy is set to decline and get smaller once the bubble part of it bursts, but in the long run it is the Russia that has rather gloomy prospects.
“I searched for God among the Christians and on the Cross and therein I found Him not. I went into the ancient temples of idolatry; no trace of Him was there. I entered the mountain cave of Hira and then went as far as Qandhar but God I found not. With set purpose I fared to the summit of Mount Caucasus and found there only 'anqa's habitation. Then I directed my search to the Kaaba, the resort of old and young; God was not there even. Turning to philosophy I inquired about him from ibn Sina but found Him not within his range. I fared then to the scene of the Prophet's experience of a great divine manifestation only a "two bow-lengths' distance from him" but God was not there even in that exalted court. Finally, I looked into my own heart and there I saw Him; He was nowhere else.”

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au
3rd lieutenant (ستوان سوم)
The Su-30MK series can take on the F-35 no problem, and also totally defeat all teen series USAF/ USN types, including the F-18E/F. That is clear! Not what you think.

Su-30's Radar can not see F-35. Therefore F-35 will shoot down Su-30 while F-35 will be unseen by Su-30.

Remember that Su-30 is not 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft.

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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
The Su-30 MK series with a 20 year old N011M Bars even can see a Su-35 or F-22 within a 30 mile cone. That pretty much eliminates the Aim-120C as a threat. The West does not have A-A missiles with effective ranges greater than 30 miles.

The Novator KS172 will shoot down the F-22 or F-35 from 200km's away if they are emitting any radiation.

The R27T and ET are both deadly within the 30 miles kill zone, and so are the Agat liquid cooled seekers on the R-77's.

So, to make it more palatable for a novice, the Su-30Mk series stand a very good chance of bringing down both the F-35 and the F-22.

You also have to remember that the late generation Sukhoi's are right now undergoing an AESA retrofit. So being a half a generation behind, the Sukhoi remains a serious threat to either the F-35 or the F-22, and will bring down either, when flown competently.

Why don't you post an article to support your dream, where you see an F-35 beating a Sukhoi? :D

Here I'll post another one:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker.html

See......i support my claims.........what about you? or do you believe in the F-14?........ :lol:


 
Su-30's Radar can not see F-35. Therefore F-35 will shoot down Su-30 while F-35 will be unseen by Su-30.

Remember that Su-30 is not 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft.

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au
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How so? The U.S. debt is more than $15 trillion. Even their next 7 hillbilly/ shitbilly generations wont be able to pay it back.

They owe China more than $1 trillion, and are on life support from Saudi/ Gulfy's and Japanese and Korean largesse.....and good will. They owe Japan unknown trillions, but won't admit it.

Russia has more more than 130 billion barrels of proven reserves, and the largest proven gas reserves. It is currently the largest exporter of energy in the world......even more than Saudi's.

It has a net negative population growth, and its gdp and gnp per capita have doubled in the last 5 years.

The Rouble keeps rising and the USD keeps falling. The EU trash union is bankrupt and is a basket case with the exception of Germany.

You gotta be shitting me 'Mustavaris' to believe the U.S is doing better than Russia, and not to mention the U.S. has better long term prospects than Russia......knowing what is going on in the U.S. right now. :D

Me, being in the Mining/ Oil & Gas game for the last 10 years am right in the middle of it.  I know what's going on in the U.S;)

The U.S. is the new third world buddy........welcome to the new American Century.......... :lol:

Russian foundament of her economy is far more shaky than US one. The US economy is set to decline and get smaller once the bubble part of it bursts, but in the long run it is the Russia that has rather gloomy prospects.

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Brother Skylark
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fi
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
There is one thing you forget: fiat currencies. US owes money that they print. After a devaluation they should resort to gold dollar, but that is entirely doable.

 The foundament of US economy is solid, their industries of best quality and they are leading or close to top in all fields. Their demographical foundament is healthy and they keep on receiving the best people world has to offer.

Russia is dependent on raw materials, energy and some limited weapons production, their industrial base is weak and in many fields falling behind, not catching up. The infrastructure sucks even when comparing to rather crappy US infrastructure. Their demographical situation is abysmal and many of the best people they have leave the country. In the US the corruption is real issue but in Russia it is in totally different dimension, one of the worst situations in the whole world, the same applies to crime level. Russia has serious internal troubles and does not have friends nor allies, a few weak clients. Russia has far less accumulated wealth than US.

And so forth..
Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 08:59:34 PM by mustavaris

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Brother Skylark
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fi
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
What comes to EU: it sucks indeed. But if you think that it is just Germany that is doing fine, well.. Nothing to add:) And if you think that Germany is somehow above the rest... no comments:)


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There is always a bigger fish!
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de
Major (سرگرد)
The skandinavian countries do their economics much better than germany.
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Me like this statement

http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=19216.msg171013.#msg171013

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Brother Skylark
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fi
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
Yes... Scandinavian countries do indeed get well along, although Norway is not EU member and Finland is not one of those.. we are doing fine right now but we are on the path to demise as of today.


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au
3rd lieutenant (ستوان سوم)
1) N011M Bars even can see a Su-35 or F-22 within a 30 mile cone.

2) The West does not have A-A missiles with effective ranges greater than 30 miles.

3) The Novator KS172 will shoot down the F-22 or F-35 from 200km's away if they are emitting any radiation.

4) The R27T and ET are both deadly within the 30 miles kill zone, and so are the Agat liquid cooled seekers on the R-77's.

Have you got a proof of Point 1), that N011M Bars Russian Radar can see Stealth Aircrafts at 30 miles distance?
Su-35's Radar Cross Section does not equal to F-22's Radar Cross Section. So N011M Bars might only detect F-22 from 5 kilometers distance.

I agree with Points 3) and 4). Liquid cooled seekers on R-77 can detect Stealth in Infrared Spectrum.

However if US will ever develop 400 kilometers range Anti Aircraft missile for F-35 and F-22 then Point 2) will be proven wrong.
And US F-35, F-22 will shoot down Sukhoi from distance of 400 kilometers.

If Point 2) is wrong then you definetly will need 5th Generation Aircraft Sukhoi T-50 and S-300, S-400 Air Defence Missiles.

If Point 1) is wrong then Su-35 will have to rely on Novator KS172 and Agat liquid cooled seekers on the R-77. 4.5 Generation solution is to use Passive Detection of F-35, F-22.
Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 07:28:45 AM by Numbers

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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Hey buddy, only you would believe your own propaganda. Russia is slated to be the 4th most powerful economy in the world by 2020.

http://indrus.in/articles/2012/01/10/cebr_russia_to_be_one_of_the_worlds_top_five_economies_by_2020_14130.html

 The U.S. is being predicted would become a shattered nation by that year. The U.S. is a basket case now with more than 16 trillion national debt. The U.S. manufactures and exports nothing anymore and to give you a reality check on its consumer nature, just the Walmart corporation's net imports in dollar value into the United States, is in the order of 10's of magnitudes higher than the U.S.'s entire exports in net dollar value.

The housing market is in tatters, Industry destroyed by the free global economists and jew shiesters and there are no fukking jobs. I have worked and lived in the U.S. for the last 20 years, before moving overseas.......I know what is going on there.......I have friends, family & colleagues there, and I know how they are doing. The American dream is long dead.....the ladders of upward mobility long dismantled, and an ever shrinking middle class.

What about you? You're from Scotland, a third world country....right?

And to be very honest an unbiased view of what is happening to the U.S. economically right now, with click-able links from mainstream newspapers is included:

http://www.blacklistednews.com/55_Interesting_Facts_About_The_U.S._Economy_In_2012/18097/0/0/0/Y/M.html

There is one thing you forget: fiat currencies. US owes money that they print. After a devaluation they should resort to gold dollar, but that is entirely doable.

 The foundament of US economy is solid, their industries of best quality and they are leading or close to top in all fields. Their demographical foundament is healthy and they keep on receiving the best people world has to offer.

Russia is dependent on raw materials, energy and some limited weapons production, their industrial base is weak and in many fields falling behind, not catching up. The infrastructure sucks even when comparing to rather crappy US infrastructure. Their demographical situation is abysmal and many of the best people they have leave the country. In the US the corruption is real issue but in Russia it is in totally different dimension, one of the worst situations in the whole world, the same applies to crime level. Russia has serious internal troubles and does not have friends nor allies, a few weak clients. Russia has far less accumulated wealth than US.

And so forth..

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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Have you got a proof of Point 1), that N011M Bars Russian Radar can see Stealth Aircrafts at 30 miles distance?
Su-35's Radar Cross Section does not equal to F-22's Radar Cross Section. So N011M Bars might only detect F-22 from 5 kilometers distance.

Nonsense.....The last link in my post on the Su-30's Bars radar's full spectrum capability lists that figure.

I agree with Points 3) and 4). Liquid cooled seekers on R-77 can detect Stealth in Infrared Spectrum.

However if US will ever develop 400 kilometers range Anti Aircraft missile for F-35 and F-22 then Point 2) will be proven wrong.
And US F-35, F-22 will shoot down Sukhoi from distance of 400 kilometers.
Nobody has or will develop a 400km A-A missile. If they develop it in the future when you grow up.......we'll talk then

If Point 2) is wrong then you definetly will need 5th Generation Aircraft Sukhoi T-50 and S-300, S-400 Air Defence Missiles.
This is not some high school logic class. The capability of the Su-30 is well documented. If, then but don't cut the mustard......either you have the military capability or you don't.

If Point 1) is wrong then Su-35 will have to rely on Novator KS172 and Agat liquid cooled seekers on the R-77. 4.5 Generation solution is to use Passive Detection of F-35, F-22.
Again.....Agat seekers in R-77's and KS172's are a fact of life. So is the Su-30MK, and so is the T-50 and S300's.

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ir
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
I m up for local production and development + Getting more Fulcrums operational .

If we look outside for purchase then Only one aircraft can fit in the required criteria for IRIAF right now and that is SU-30MK ...


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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Emir jon......Russia will never sell us the Su-30 because it will totally alter the balance of power in the region.

Already IRGC is very strong in its missile force and outclasses all regional rivals in both tactical and strategic areas.

Iran's large population and reserves also dictate that Saudi's cannot fight us.

If we get su-30's......then whatever hope these Gulfy's have will go right in the toilet.

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ALF = Alien Life Form
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hu
Private (سرباز عادى)
J10b interesting that what would be perfect. Iran does not seem the type of interest. J10B is supposed to AESA radar mounted.

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ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
I agree with the above comments that the USA economy is worse than it seems.

For example, Bloomberg.com:
Quote
Demand for transportation equipment fell 6.1 percent, restrained by a 19 percent plunge in civilian aircraft orders. Boeing Co., the largest U.S. aircraft maker, said it received 150 orders last month, down from 287 in December.

Today’s report showed bookings for non-defense capital goods excluding aircraft, a proxy for business investment in items such as computers, engines and communications gear, decreased 4.5 percent, the most in a year.

Orders slumped 10.4 percent for machinery, the most in three years, and primary metals demand dropped 6.7 percent.

Gasoline prices in the USA continue to rise,

Also according to Bloomberg:
Quote
Home prices in 20 U.S. cities dropped more than forecast in December to the lowest level since the housing crisis began in mid-2006, indicating foreclosures are hampering the industry’s recovery.

The S&P/Case-Shiller index of property values in 20 cities fell 4 percent from a year earlier, after decreasing 3.9 percent in November


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au
3rd lieutenant (ستوان سوم)
Below is picture of detection ranges of Russian Radars and Passive Infrared Seeker.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker.html#mozTocId332358

0.001 RCS of F-35 can be detected by N011M Bars (yellow line) from 12.5 miles or 6.75 kilometers.
0.01 RCS of F-22 can be detected by N011M Bars (yellow line) from 6.25 miles or 3.38 kilometers.

While F-35, F-22 can shoot down Su-30 from much larger distance of 72 kilometers by AIM-120D Air to Air Missile.

To fight 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft you need 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft. You can not come close enough to 5th Generation F-35, F-22 on 4th Generation Su-30.
Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 02:53:37 AM by Numbers

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ir
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
Emir jon......Russia will never sell us the Su-30 because it will totally alter the balance of power in the region.

Already IRGC is very strong in its missile force and outclasses all regional rivals in both tactical and strategic areas.

Iran's large population and reserves also dictate that Saudi's cannot fight us.

If we get su-30's......then whatever hope these Gulfy's have will go right in the toilet.

i was just talking theoretically ... let suppose if Iran goes the shooping route to equip its airforce then only Su-30 MK series comes to mind that can fit with IRIAF  requirements right now ... but again its a strike aircraft and its sale would make alot of noise ...

I m definitely up for local production of a 4 + interceptor platform with alot of room for up-gradation in future ... + creating UCAV next generation of karrar and Sofreh Mahi , probably some VTOL design if possible;e ( if We can get some access to abandoned Yak-141 design ) ... and as of now ... only possible  solution is to get more fulcrums operational ... 40 - 50  more upto M standard would do that for IRIAF ... they will be good for next 10 years and will provide IRIAF to concentrate on local production and R & D ... seems like the best plan to me ...

immediate needs r R-77 , more RD-33s and additional Zhuk Mersch ... 

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