Iran Military Forum







Author Topic: Iranian Air Launched Weapons  (Read 31886 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline fafnir

  • سرباز عادى
  • *
  • Posts: 118
  • nz
  • Respect: +79
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #200 on: April 30, 2013, 12:15:17 PM »
+3
From where do you get it? I read somewhere that the cooling-system is included in Fakur-90, but never read some stats about range or agility.
The original model of the aim54 used thermionic valves/tubes and needed an external cooling loop,the later models did away with this,personally I doubt that very much of the original electronics would remain in the iranian produced version,indeed I suspect that just like with the iranian hawks the only thing that remains from the original is probably the external appearance,after all both were designed back in the sixties and technology has improved a little since then.What is especially interesting is that they appear to have continued with developing an a2a version of the hawk,I wonder why,the aim54 is superior,could it have been as a back up in case the program to reengineer the aim54 was unsuccessful,are there differences between the a2a version and the sam version of the hawk,I guess I`ll have to wait for the answers
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 12:21:32 PM by fafnir »

Offline Catsoo

  • Global Moderator
  • سرتیپ
  • *
  • Posts: 10309
  • Respect: +4623
Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #201 on: April 30, 2013, 12:43:48 PM »
0
Quote
Looks like Zubin Anti Ship Missile has Electro Optical camera for guidence.

Zoobin was not designed to be an ASHM rather a stand off missile.


Catsoo

Online bluesky

  • سرباز یكم
  • *
  • Posts: 534
  • bd
  • Respect: +787
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #202 on: April 30, 2013, 12:52:58 PM »
+1
What happened to the Fatter, the Iranian versions of the AIM-9 Sidewinder? We don't see it on parades, but IIRC two versions were made.

Offline Eagle2009

  • سرهنگ دوم
  • *
  • Posts: 3548
  • Respect: +464
Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #203 on: May 01, 2013, 03:33:44 AM »
+2
Catsoo,

To be fair, it could easily be used as an AshM, just as the IRIAF used AGM-65As during the Iran-Iraq War (and with great effect). The only problem is, since it seems to use the same seeker technology as the AGM-65A (no magnification of the image), it's effective range is limited and would only be effective against vessels with little or no AD capability. Then again, its larger warhead would pack a MUCH greater punch than the AGM-65A.

Bluesky,

The "Fater" to my knowledge was never paraded publicly. It's only been shown in a few images. In one of those rare images (which look fairly old), it shows two Fatter missiles, one marked "Fater-1" and the other "Fater-2". Here's the thing, the two missiles are identical and thus their numbering is most likely meaningless. To date I have never seen any official statements on the missile or its capabilities or if any variants exists.

Now, here is my theory: the "Fater" program exist/existed but not in the way we may have thought initially. Let me explain..

Something that is not often talked about when discussing how old Iran's American combat aircraft are and how amazing it is that Iran has managed to maintain them so well after all these years, is the fact that all those AIM-7s, AIM-9s, and AIM-54s delivered before the Revolution (and those delivered during the war via Iran-Contra) are WELL past their shelf lives. Even if perfectly maintained and stored, AAMs simply don't have very long shelf lives, certainly not 34 years! With that understood, the immediate question you have to ask yourself is, how on Earth are Iran's American combat aircraft still seen carrying Sidewinders, Sparrows and Phoenixes? The answer is very simple: They have de facto reverse-engineered them all. Here's how:

Part of the problem of maintaining AAMs over long periods of time is the solid-fuel used by the motor becomes unstable with time and dangerous so Iranian engineers would have HAD to have reverse-engineered the motors to keep the missiles operational and safe. Next, the seeker technologies used by all these missiles also doesn't hold up well over that long a period of time, so Iranian engineers would have HAD to have reverse-engineered the guidance systems for these missiles as well (the AIM-54 logically taking the longest given its complexity).

So by simple deduction, Iranian engineers have likely had the ability to build at least two (AIM-7 & AIM-9), possibly all three missiles, for well over a decade for them to still be operational today. IMHO, the "Fater" was the name given to the effort to reverse-engineer the AIM-9P, an effort that was likely meant mainly to refurbish existing stocks of missiles and also, if needed, built brand new AIM-9Ps from scratch. Logically, there is a similar AIM-7 program out there as well that we simply have never heard of.

Now, IMHO, I think it is unlikely Iranian engineers would be content with ending the Fater program by simply reverse-engineering the old AIM-9P. Given Iran's problematic arms procurement situation, the inability to import large numbers of more modern replacement AAMs for these older American-built missiles, it's only logical to assume Iranian engineers have been working on improved versions of potentially all three missiles. We know now that they have indeed developed their own variant of the AIM-54 and thus I think its quite likely there are improved domestic variants of the AIM-9 and possibly the AIM-7 in the works now (or already in production for all we know).

Of course, that last part is pure speculation on my part, but the point is: IF Iran wanted to, they could have building "clones" of the AIM-9P, AIM-7E, and AIM-54A for some time now and regardless of whether they did choose such a path or simply refurbish their existing stocks, the important thing is we know they've HAD the ability..

Here is a fairly rare image of the "Fater" missile, IMHO taken sometime in the 90's (though I am not certain about that):
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 03:40:47 AM by Eagle2009 »
"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
- Harry Truman

Offline Catsoo

  • Global Moderator
  • سرتیپ
  • *
  • Posts: 10309
  • Respect: +4623
Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #204 on: May 01, 2013, 04:14:14 AM »
0
Eagle,

I guess I should have added the term "primarily" to my sentence. ASHM could be its secondary role as Maverick have played naturally!


catsoo

Online M-ATF

  • سرگرد
  • *
  • Posts: 2806
  • ir
  • Respect: +2754
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #205 on: May 01, 2013, 11:53:53 AM »
0
Catsoo,

To be fair, it could easily be used as an AshM, just as the IRIAF used AGM-65As during the Iran-Iraq War (and with great effect). The only problem is, since it seems to use the same seeker technology as the AGM-65A (no magnification of the image), it's effective range is limited and would only be effective against vessels with little or no AD capability. Then again, its larger warhead would pack a MUCH greater punch than the AGM-65A.

Bluesky,

The "Fater" to my knowledge was never paraded publicly. It's only been shown in a few images. In one of those rare images (which look fairly old), it shows two Fatter missiles, one marked "Fater-1" and the other "Fater-2". Here's the thing, the two missiles are identical and thus their numbering is most likely meaningless. To date I have never seen any official statements on the missile or its capabilities or if any variants exists.

Now, here is my theory: the "Fater" program exist/existed but not in the way we may have thought initially. Let me explain..

Something that is not often talked about when discussing how old Iran's American combat aircraft are and how amazing it is that Iran has managed to maintain them so well after all these years, is the fact that all those AIM-7s, AIM-9s, and AIM-54s delivered before the Revolution (and those delivered during the war via Iran-Contra) are WELL past their shelf lives. Even if perfectly maintained and stored, AAMs simply don't have very long shelf lives, certainly not 34 years! With that understood, the immediate question you have to ask yourself is, how on Earth are Iran's American combat aircraft still seen carrying Sidewinders, Sparrows and Phoenixes? The answer is very simple: They have de facto reverse-engineered them all. Here's how:

Part of the problem of maintaining AAMs over long periods of time is the solid-fuel used by the motor becomes unstable with time and dangerous so Iranian engineers would have HAD to have reverse-engineered the motors to keep the missiles operational and safe. Next, the seeker technologies used by all these missiles also doesn't hold up well over that long a period of time, so Iranian engineers would have HAD to have reverse-engineered the guidance systems for these missiles as well (the AIM-54 logically taking the longest given its complexity).

So by simple deduction, Iranian engineers have likely had the ability to build at least two (AIM-7 & AIM-9), possibly all three missiles, for well over a decade for them to still be operational today. IMHO, the "Fater" was the name given to the effort to reverse-engineer the AIM-9P, an effort that was likely meant mainly to refurbish existing stocks of missiles and also, if needed, built brand new AIM-9Ps from scratch. Logically, there is a similar AIM-7 program out there as well that we simply have never heard of.

Now, IMHO, I think it is unlikely Iranian engineers would be content with ending the Fater program by simply reverse-engineering the old AIM-9P. Given Iran's problematic arms procurement situation, the inability to import large numbers of more modern replacement AAMs for these older American-built missiles, it's only logical to assume Iranian engineers have been working on improved versions of potentially all three missiles. We know now that they have indeed developed their own variant of the AIM-54 and thus I think its quite likely there are improved domestic variants of the AIM-9 and possibly the AIM-7 in the works now (or already in production for all we know).

Of course, that last part is pure speculation on my part, but the point is: IF Iran wanted to, they could have building "clones" of the AIM-9P, AIM-7E, and AIM-54A for some time now and regardless of whether they did choose such a path or simply refurbish their existing stocks, the important thing is we know they've HAD the ability..

Here is a fairly rare image of the "Fater" missile, IMHO taken sometime in the 90's (though I am not certain about that):
At recent Army Day parade,all of air launched weapons such as R60, R-73, R-27, AIM-9 and AIM-7 were paraded and introduced as "Modified Air Launched Weapons".

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Offline gwoprisko

  • سرباز دوم
  • *
  • Posts: 317
  • us
  • Respect: +272
Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #206 on: May 01, 2013, 02:42:34 PM »
0
This specifically means that Iran can use these skills to develop a new generation of
effective Air Launched weapons much lighter, or with improved range, or with improved target
acquisition, or with improved accuracy, or with guidance more resistant to jamming, or more maneuverable.


OR

With some combination of these characteristics.

So,  can Iran design/build a clone of the AIPKWS  70mm guided missile with 12 km range?    From the banner
F-4 photo, Iran has and uses 70mm rockets.   So they must have experience with them too.

INDY

Online M-ATF

  • سرگرد
  • *
  • Posts: 2806
  • ir
  • Respect: +2754
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #207 on: May 01, 2013, 04:28:25 PM »
+1
What happened to the Fatter, the Iranian versions of the AIM-9 Sidewinder? We don't see it on parades, but IIRC two versions were made.

I'm very interested to know what happend to that 100+ km thermal seeker AA missile was tested 5 years ago:

Quote
آزمايش موشک هوا به هوای حرارتی
فرمانده نيروي هوايي ارتش از آزمايش موشک هوا به هواي حرارتي و طراحي هواپيماي رادارگريز در اين نيرو خبر داد.
برنا: امير سرتيپ حسن شاه صفي در حاشيه برگزاري مراسم جشن ازدواج دسته جمعي کارکنان نيروي هوايي ارتش که به مناسبت سالروز ازدواج حضرت علي(ع) و حضرت فاطمه(س) برگزار شد، از آزمايش گرم يکي از موشک هاي هوا به هواي حرارتي با برد 100 کيلومتر خبر داد و گفت: امروز در صورت مساعد بودن شرايط جوي، تست گرم اين موشک هوا به هواي حرارتي که در رزمايش اخير شمالغارب کشور به نوع ديگري آزمايش شده بود را در يکي از ميدانهاي تير اين نيرو انجام مي دهيم.

وي افزود: پرتاب اين موشک که تمام مراحل بازسازي آن در بخش نوآوريهاي نيروي هوايي صورت گرفته به اين صورت است كه از طريق يكي از هواپيماها هدفي شليك مي‌شود و هواپيماي دوم اين موشك را شليك و موشك هدف را تعقيب کرده و تا انهدام در آسمان دنبال مي کند.
شاه صفي برد اين موشک را 40 کيلومتر عنوان و تصريح کرد: برد اين موشک با توجه به ارتفاع، تا بالاي 100 کيلومتر قابل افزايش است.

وي اظهار داشت: آزمايش اين موشك براي برد 40 كيلومتر انجام مي ‌شود ولي هدف ما بالاي 100 كيلومتر است كه به دانش فني آن هم رسيده ‌ايم.

فرمانده نيروي هوايي ارتش از طراحي هواپيماي رادارگريز در اين نيرو خبر و ادامه داد: طراحي اين هواپيما انجام شده و اكنون در مرحله ساخت نمونه‌ اوليه در حجم بسيار كوچك ‌تر هستيم و پس از انجام آزمايش ‌هاي لازم وارد بخش واقعي‌ تر آن خواهيم شد.

وي در پايان تاکيد کرد: اميدواريم تا پايان سال جاري تمام بخش هاي تحقيقاتي اين هواپيما به پايان رسيده و وارد بخش توليد شويم.


http://www.fardanews.com/fa/news/67636/%D8%A2%D8%B2%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%B4-%D9%85%D9%88%D8%B4%DA%A9-%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D9%87-%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AA%DB%8C

Although development of Fakur-90 is very valuable, But Iran still needs a lighter missile (specially for lighter fighter jets than F-14), in the same class of AIM-7 or even lighter but longer range and with "fire-and-forget" capability (with thermal or active radar seeker for terminal phase engagement).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 04:33:50 PM by M-ATF »

Offline aryana

  • سرهنگ دوم
  • *
  • Posts: 3857
  • ir
  • moores law driving force of innovation
  • Respect: +340
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #208 on: May 01, 2013, 05:05:36 PM »
-4
iran needs new planes not missiles for the planes it does not have,
Iran Khodro largest auto maker in larger middle east

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWwHIPoQdw8&list=UUMF4vfECnuAPAfW0s6lMpyg&index=1&feature=plcp

<a href="http://www.quickiqtest.net" title="IQ Test"><img src="http://www.quickiqtest.net/graphic/badges/sf114.gif" width="150" height="75" alt="IQ Test" border="0"></a><br>QuickIQTest.net - <a title="Quick IQ Test" href="http://www.quickiqtest.net">IQ Test</a>

this is the fixed video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn-T-5k0_4E&list=UUMF4vfECnuAPAfW0s6lMpyg&index=1

Offline Catsoo

  • Global Moderator
  • سرتیپ
  • *
  • Posts: 10309
  • Respect: +4623
Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #209 on: May 01, 2013, 05:21:34 PM »
0
M-ATF,

Just so everyone knows, the article posted by you in your last post is about five years old!

Thanks for digging it out!

Catsoo

Online M-ATF

  • سرگرد
  • *
  • Posts: 2806
  • ir
  • Respect: +2754
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #210 on: May 01, 2013, 05:46:18 PM »
0
M-ATF,

Just so everyone knows, the article posted by you in your last post is about five years old!

Thanks for digging it out!

Catsoo
Catsoo,
I can't understand what do you mean?

Offline WUDANGMASTER

  • سرباز عادى
  • *
  • Posts: 239
  • us
  • Respect: +101
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #211 on: May 01, 2013, 07:15:28 PM »
0
What is especially interesting is that they appear to have continued with developing an a2a version of the hawk,I wonder why,the aim54 is superior,could it have been as a back up in case the program to reengineer the aim54 was unsuccessful,are there differences between the a2a version and the sam version of the hawk,I guess I`ll have to wait for the answers

Based on responses to my previous query regrading this subject, I'm lead to believe that the two missiles are both very valuable and work sufficiently differently to warrant their continued production.  Both appear to be quite lethal in their respective ranges.  I wonder if the sedgeel can be or already is modified to act as PGM.

Offline WUDANGMASTER

  • سرباز عادى
  • *
  • Posts: 239
  • us
  • Respect: +101
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #212 on: May 01, 2013, 07:18:02 PM »
0
iran needs new planes not missiles for the planes it does not have,

koodak think before posting nonsense; all of these missiles are used by Iran's CURRENT fleet and future fleet.  These missiles were crucial in the iraq imposed war! 

Offline Catsoo

  • Global Moderator
  • سرتیپ
  • *
  • Posts: 10309
  • Respect: +4623
Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #213 on: May 01, 2013, 08:05:47 PM »
+1
M-ATF,

I just wanted everyone to know that the article you posted first appeard five years ago, that is all.


Catsoo

Offline aryana

  • سرهنگ دوم
  • *
  • Posts: 3857
  • ir
  • moores law driving force of innovation
  • Respect: +340
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #214 on: May 01, 2013, 10:07:35 PM »
-6
May 01, 2013, 10:07:35 PM - Hidden.

Offline Eagle2009

  • سرهنگ دوم
  • *
  • Posts: 3548
  • Respect: +464
Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #215 on: May 02, 2013, 01:16:37 AM »
0
M-ATF,

Except the color/appearance of those missiles indicates they are all training rounds (hence why the R-27 displayed has no seeker). They may very well be Iranian-built training rounds, but I'm quite certain they are still just training missiles.

Offline fafnir

  • سرباز عادى
  • *
  • Posts: 118
  • nz
  • Respect: +79
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #216 on: May 04, 2013, 03:50:36 AM »
+1
This specifically means that Iran can use these skills to develop a new generation of
effective Air Launched weapons much lighter, or with improved range, or with improved target
acquisition, or with improved accuracy, or with guidance more resistant to jamming, or more maneuverable.


OR

With some combination of these characteristics.

So,  can Iran design/build a clone of the AIPKWS  70mm guided missile with 12 km range?    From the banner
F-4 photo, Iran has and uses 70mm rockets.   So they must have experience with them too.

INDY

Iran has already begun production of laser guided artillery rockets,heres a thread about it
http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/air-forces/%27kor%27-laser-guided-rockets-a-new-weapon-for-iranian-uav%27s/

Offline Numbers

  • گروهبان
  • *
  • Posts: 1417
  • au
  • Respect: +109
Re: Iranian Air Launched Weapons
« Reply #217 on: May 05, 2013, 03:03:47 AM »
0
Iran has already begun production of laser guided artillery rockets.

That is great. Now Iran can have Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) with guided rockets.

MLRS will target enemy Infantry with precision.

 

SMF 2.0.4 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.93 seconds with 30 queries.