Author Topic: New Claims: Saeqeh capable launch PGM and radar guided, heat seeking missiles (Read 7623 times)

M-ATF · « **on:** September 26, 2011, 01:52:36 PM »

IRNA published an Interview with one of the commanders of IRIAF, Abdollah Kashani Fard.
He says now we could to produce 100 % of parts of Saeqeh by ourself.
Saeqeh could to launches different types of light and heavy armaments, training ammnition, actual ammuntion, and also PGM's successfully and destroy determinded targets.
By having Saeqeh which is a light and cost effective aircraft we will be no longer affected for supply spare parts and armaments of it by other countries.
Being light and needing to less time and personels for preaparation of aircraft for flight is of features of Saeqeh .
He added Saeqeh can contribute in air intercepting and reconnaissance air threats missions well and is capable to do tactical operations.
he mentioned this aircraft that is under mass production is capable to launch radar guided and heat seeking missiles.

in another parts of interview he talks about F-4 and Su-24.

http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/68649/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%98%DA%AF%DB%8C-%D9%87%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%AE%D8%A7%D8%B5-%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%BE%DB%8C%D9%85%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%AE%D9%88-24-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86

Quote

ویژگی های خاص هواپیمای سوخو 24 ایران
امير "كاشاني فرد" گفت: از قابليت‌هاي ويژه سوخو 24 كه مشابه هواپيماهاي جنگنده بمب افكن اف111 آمريكا است، پرواز اتوماتيك در ارتفاع پست و مصون ماندن آنها از ديد رادارهاست.

به گزارش گروه دفاع و امنیت مشرق، امير خلبان 'عبدالله كاشاني فرد' روز دوشنبه در گفت وگو با خبرنگار حوزه دفاعي ايرنا، هفته دفاع مقدس را به ملت ايران و فرمانده معظم كل قوا تبريك گفت و ياد و خاطره جانفشاني هاي رزمندگان اسلام در هشت سال مقاومت و پايداري را گرامي داشت.
وي با بيان اين كه امروز متخصصان متعهد ايراني توانسته‌اند به دانش طراحي و ساخت هواپيماهاي جنگي دست يابند، اظهار داشت: در اين راستا، امروز توانسته‌ايم از صفر تا 100 هواپيماهاي جنگي صاعقه را كه از جمله هواپيماهاي نسل چهارم است در كشور توليد كنيم و اين هواپيما در رزمايش بزرگ فدائيان حريم ولايت حضوري موثر داشت.
معاون طرح و برنامه نيروي هوايي ارتش افزود: هواپيماي جنگي صاعقه در اين رزمايش توانست با موفقيت در مراحل تمريني و اصلي عمليات با استفاده از انواع مهمات سبك و سنگين، مشقي، جنگي و همچنين هوشمند نقطه زن، اهداف تعيين شده را با موفقيت منهدم كند.
وي با بيان اين‌كه در مراحل بعدي پيش‌بيني‌هاي خوبي براي ارتقاي سامانه‌هاي مختلف هواپيماي بومي صاعقه شده است گفت: با برخورداري از هواپيماي صاعقه كه از نوع هواپيماهاي جنگنده سبك و مقرون به صرفه است، ديگر گرفتار تامين سلاح و قطعات آن نخواهيم بود.
امير سرتيپ كاشاني‌فرد افزود: از ويژگي‌هاي هواپيماي صاعقه، سبك بودن و نياز به تعداد نفرات كمتر براي آماده‌سازي و نياز به حداقل زمان لازم براي شروع پرواز است.
معاون طرح و برنامه نيروي هوايي ارتش خاطرنشان كرد: هواپيماي جنگنده صاعقه مي تواند بخوبي در رهگيري هوايي و شناسايي تهديدهاي هوايي شركت كند و قابليت اجراي عمليات تاكتيكي را دارد.
به گفته اين مقام نظامي، هواپيماي بومي صاعقه كه در حال توليد انبوه در كشور است، از قابليت استفاده از موشك هاي راداري، حرارتي و سامانه تيراندازي برخوردار است.

** هواپيماي جنگنده بمب افكن اف4
اميرسرتيپ كاشاني‌فرد در ادامه با اشاره به جايگاه هواپيماهاي جنگنده بمب افكن اف4 در نيروي هوايي ارتش جمهوري اسلامي ايران گفت: اين جنگنده يك هواپيماي چندمنظوره است كه قابليت پرواز در تمامي شرايط جوي و انجام عمليات را دارد.
معاون طرح و برنامه نيروي هوايي ارتش افزود: هواپيماي اف 4 از قابليت حمل انواع موشكهاي حرارتي، ليزري، راداري و تلويزيوني با سطح حجم تسليحاتي سبك تا سنگين برخوردار است.
وي حضور هواپيماي اف 4 در رزمايش اخير فدائيان حريم ولايت 3 را نيز چشمگير خواند و خاطرنشان كرد: هواپيماي اف 4 در اين رزمايش به صورت دسته اي عمليات هاي مختلف رهگيري، تيراندازي، حمل انواع بمب هاي با وزن‌ مختلف و شناسايي اهداف و بمباران آنها را با موفقيت انجام داد.
امير سرتيپ كاشاني فرد اظهارداشت: از ويژگي‌هاي منحصربه فرد هواپيماي جنگنده بمب افكن اف 4، سوخت‌گيري در شب است كه رده پروازي اين نوع هواپيما را از يك هزار و 500 كيلومتر به بالا افزايش مي دهد.
وي در ادامه از عمليات 'اچ 3' توسط جنگنده بمب‌افكن‌هاي اف 4 به عنوان نمونه اي از افزايش مدت زمان پروازي براي اين نوع هواپيما ياد كرد كه در دوران هشت ساله دفاع مقدس و در عمق خاك عراق و با انجام دو مرحله سوخت‌گيري در آسمان انجام شد.
اين مقام نظامي يادآور شد: سامانه‌هاي موشك هاي ليزري هواپيماي جنگنده بمب افكن اف 4 توسط متخصصان توانمند نيروي هوايي ارتش راه اندازي شده است كه در عمليات تاكتيكي اين نيرو تمرين مي شود و در صورت نياز و با توجه به نوع تهديدات دشمن مي توانيم از اين سامانه‌ها براي دفاع از كشور بهره گيريم.

** جايگاه هواپيماهاي جنگنده سوخو 24 در نيروي هوايي ارتش
معاون طرح و برنامه نيروي هوايي ارتش همچنين گفت: جنگنده بمب افكن سوخو 24 از ديگر هواپيماهاي راهبردي است كه به عنوان يكي از تجهيزات سازماني نيروي هوايي مورد بهره برداري قرار گرفته است.
امير سرتيپ كاشاني فرد افزود: از ويژگي‌هاي منحصر به فرد اين نوع هواپيما آن است كه در صورت روشن بودن رادار دشمن در منطقه و به دليل توانايي حمل موشك هاي ليزري قادر است كه هرگونه فركانس موشكي دشمن را شناسايي و با متمركز شدن بر روي مراكز راداري و هواپيماهاي دشمن، به طور اتوماتيك اين مراكز و هواپيماها را به طور صددرصد منهدم كند.
معاون طرح و برنامه نيروي هوايي ارتش با بيان اينكه اين نوع هواپيماها از توانمندي‌هاي بيشتري برخوردار است، گفت: اين نيرو در حال ارتقاي توانمندي‌هاي ديگر اين هواپيما و رساندن آن به جايگاه خود به عنوان يك هواپيماي راهبردي است.
امير سرتيپ كاشاني فرد افزود: از قابليت‌هاي ويژه اين هواپيما كه مشابه هواپيماهاي جنگنده بمب افكن اف111 آمريكا است، پرواز اتوماتيك در ارتفاع پست و مصون ماندن آنها از ديد رادارهاست.
معاون طرح وبرنامه نيروي هوايي ارتش تصريح كرد:از ديگر توانمندي‌هاي اين هواپيما در جنگ الكترونيك پيشرفته است كه توسط متخصصان اين نيرو ايجاد شده و مي تواند كارآيي‌هاي بالايي در انجام ماموريت‌ها داشته باشد.
وي گفت: هواپيماي سوخو 24 توانايي از كار انداختن تمامي رادارها و موشكهاي دشمن در منطقه را دارد و مي تواند به عنوان هواپيماي پيشرو، سامانه جنگ الكترونيك را به كار گيرد و هواپيماهاي ديگر به دنبال آن براي بمباران اهداف دشمن وارد عمل شوند.

Lur · « **Reply #1 on:** September 26, 2011, 03:40:16 PM »

Iran to improve Saeqeh warplane

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:47AM GMT

Reddit

Domestically-made Iranian Saeqeh (Thunderbolt) warplane

A senior commander of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) says Iran plans to carry out technical improvements in the domestically-made Saeqeh (Thunderbolt) warplane.

Deputy Commander of the IRIAF Abdollah Kashanifard said that enhancing military capabilities of the aircraft has been put high on the agenda of competent Iranian experts, IRNA reported on Monday.

Kashanifard went on to say that the unique design of the jet fighter, which is a light and efficient aircraft, has facilitated the process of supplying its weapons and accessories.

The Iranian commander further explained that the pre-flight preparations for Saeqeh require fewer personnel and take less time in comparison with other types of warplanes.

Kashanifard pointed out that the Iranian aircraft, which can be equipped with thermal missiles, is on the mass production line.

Saeqeh was successfully used and tested in the aerial maneuvers of "Defenders of Velayat Sanctuaries 3" that were held earlier in September in northwestern Iran, Kashanifard said.

HSN/MMA/MGH

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/201203.html

nomad · « **Reply #2 on:** September 26, 2011, 06:10:01 PM »

Suitable and capable longer range BVR air to air missiles will address any shortcomings in range or speed or altitude . Greater numerical superiority will address any capability imbalance . Short range intercept without heavy load will improve agility .

Emirzaad · « **Reply #3 on:** September 27, 2011, 12:19:09 AM »

I wonder if Saeqeh is equipped with Phozatron N Series Radar

elsid130 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 27, 2011, 01:17:26 AM »

I don't think the IRIAF has revealed the real Saegheh yet, I think these are just modified aircrafts carrying different tests until the real deal is revealed, whether these aircrafts are from scratch or from the existing airplanes are not important, what is important is that IRIAF knows the existing so-called Saegheh doesn't stand a chance against an even basic version of the new fighters, hence IRIAF is keeping his cards very close to his chest

PERSPOLIS · « **Reply #5 on:** September 27, 2011, 03:08:25 AM »

IRIAF has a new role for f5 and saeghe and that is to use them against cruise missiles and complement to f7s

for this they had changed and upgraded the f5 radars the range is 90 km now and some rumors say they are using f7 upgraded

radars on f5s ....

parsipride · « **Reply #6 on:** September 27, 2011, 04:20:41 AM »

what is mass produce , does it mean 10 aircraft a year 30, 100 ?

Nightstrike · « **Reply #7 on:** September 27, 2011, 04:50:00 AM »

Quote from: parsipride on September 27, 2011, 04:20:41 AM

what is mass produce , does it mean 10 aircraft a year 30, 100 ?

Well if Jamaran is a destroyer, by the same token 'mass production' probably means 1-2 saeghes a year.

Numbers · « **Reply #8 on:** September 27, 2011, 05:32:39 AM »

Quote from: elsid130 on September 27, 2011, 01:17:26 AM

What is important is that IRIAF knows the existing so-called Saegheh doesn't stand a chance against an even basic version of the new fighters.

Of course. Saegheh is not Stealth Air Plane. US Stealth Air Plane F-35 can easily see Saegheh on its Radar. While Saegheh can not see F-35 on its Radar.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 27, 2011, 05:42:34 AM »

PERSPOLIS,

Using aircraft such as the F-5 and F-7 to take out cruise missiles is not only pretty wasteful it's not practical. During the Cold War both sides made aircraft that were claimed to be able to take out cruise missiles, but cruise missile threat at the time was not conventionally armed cruise missiles but nuclear armed ones. The difference? Nuclear-armed cruise missile barrages would be much smaller in terms of missiles used (for obvious reasons). Not to mention the aircraft both sides built that could handle this job were quite few. The MiG-31 was the only Soviet design that could feasibly and effective accomplish the task because of it's armament of 4-6 R-33 AAMs (equivalent to the AIM-54) while the US only had the F-14 to do the task. This was because other aircraft like the Su-27 and F-15s were primarily armed with SARH (Semi-Active Radar Homing) which are not ideal to use against low-flying targets like a cruise missile.

By that basis alone a F-5 and F-7 would be worthless due to their limited ability of only carrying 4 missiles total. Cruise missile strikes involved hundreds of missiles and therefore Iran would need to deploy their entire F-5 and F-7 fleet at once to try and stop them all. It's not practical nor logical use of these aircraft. Iran's F-14s are the only aircraft capable of tackling such a task with any real chance of success and there are likely not enough to stop a large-scale cruise missile strike (though they could certain put a dent in it). This is likely why Iran is designing systems like the Mesbah-1, in conjunction with the TorM1, to counter the cruise missile threat effectively (both cost-wise and ability-wise).

And to date all reports of F-5Es getting a major radar upgrade (other than improvements to the original) have never been proven. Specifically reports of attempts to use Russian radars to upgrade them are completely bunk, and are in the same category of "myths" as reports in the 90's of Russia helping to re-engine Iran's F-14s..Completely without basis.

M-ATF · « **Reply #10 on:** September 27, 2011, 06:20:46 AM »

Eagle
There is no official reports about Perspolis statements.
I dont know whats his source.

M-ATF · « **Reply #11 on:** September 27, 2011, 06:39:58 AM »

IF Iran can mass produce engines with 25-30 kn dry thrust. IF Iran can build capable radar and fit it on Saeqeh, and If Iran can build missiles in the class of R-77 or AMRAAM AIM-120 and use it on Saeqeh.
Then surely, Saeqeh with support of ground radars and airdefences inside Iran territory has chance against todays fighters.

Seems Iran has reached to the technology for production of ground and naval phased array radars, and plannar array antenna for Shalamcheh/Shahin. I wonder can they build a phased array radar for fighters.

recently there was a report about unveiling a prototype of Turbofan engine. we dont know anything about it but seems it is based on J-85 engines. One of our friends said (Ray-ATK) Iran has built some prototypes of Turbofan version of J-85 with 25kn dry thrust.(I dont know his claims is true or not, unfortunately he is absent after his remarks about these engines and also he has removed his remarks about these engines), I guess if all things advances well we should wait at least 2-3 years for mass-production of first Iranian turbofan.

There are different reports about modification of different air-launched missiles.Iran also produces Sejil . recently we also have seen, modified-refurbished phoenix missiles in parade and installed on F-14s. Also there were reports about production and models of AIM-9 some years ago. There are reports about a Heat Seeking missile with 40 and 100 km range too.
I think except Sejil there is no certain evidence for production of air-to-air missile till now.

Numbers · « **Reply #12 on:** September 27, 2011, 08:18:40 AM »

Quote from: M-ATF on September 27, 2011, 06:39:58 AM

IF Iran can mass produce engines with 25-30 kn dry thrust. IF Iran can build capable radar and fit it on Saeqeh, and If Iran can build missiles in the class of R-77 or AMRAAM AIM-120 and use it on Saeqeh.

Then surely, Saeqeh with support of ground radars and airdefences inside Iran territory has chance against todays fighters.

Even armed with AIM-120 missile Saeqeh can not engage Stealth Aircraft like F-35. AIM-120 is actively guided by its own Radar which can not see Stealth at all.

nomad · « **Reply #13 on:** September 27, 2011, 09:36:18 AM »

Then against low RCS plane must use IR guided at shorter range or cannon . Also no plane is really stealth , if it uses it's radar to locate other plane then it give location away . Even B2 or F22 can not effectively use radar ! They use tactic of lead plane use radar and chase plane with 50 KM distance behind it firing missile . This way chase plane is invisible but still lead plane is visible and is hit . Also if Iran uses ECM then the radar become less effective . Even if they use frequency hopping radar . As physical countermeasure of drones and chaff will drown their radar . All this means intercepting on Iranian airspace with lots of ground support in preapered locations at short range . That's why I always said WVR tactic is needed with low RCS planes . If low RCS technology is not available the still use ECM . The low RCS plane only usefull without RADAR at short range anyway .

However the number of low RCS plane in US inventory is few compared with normal planes . Especially those capable of dog fighting . B2 and B1 and F117 can not do dogfighting . Only F22 . The main threat is from about 600 F18 carrier based .

Numbers · « **Reply #14 on:** September 27, 2011, 10:03:55 AM »

Quote from: nomad on September 27, 2011, 09:36:18 AM

Then against low RCS plane must use IR guided at shorter range or cannon.

Also no plane is really stealth, if it uses it's radar to locate other plane then it give location away. Even B2 or F22 can not effectively use radar! They use tactic of lead plane use radar and chase plane with 50 KM distance behind it firing missile.

Yes.

If Saeqeh uses AIM-120 missile than missile can not even lock onto Stealth Aircraft like F-35.

F-35 can be used as Tactical Bomber flying all way along without Radar. That way F-35 will not even give its location away to any ground ESM or Passive Radar. That is how F-117/B-2/F-22/F-35 were supposed to be used.

I know F-22/F-35 can be used with Radar. I was just mentioning how they can be used for Tactical Bombing.

shiageorgia · « **Reply #15 on:** September 27, 2011, 04:13:47 PM »

F-35 is not in service in significant numbers and will not be at least 7-8 years...

Lord of the Rings · « **Reply #16 on:** September 27, 2011, 04:32:20 PM »

Iran needs to sort its airforce out. this is not good enough.
BTW guys what happened to project integral? is that shafaq?

Lord of the Rings · « **Reply #17 on:** September 27, 2011, 04:33:15 PM »

Quote from: farbod on September 27, 2011, 04:32:20 PM

Iran needs to sort its airforce out. this is not good enough.
BTW guys what happened to project integral? is that shafaq?

Catsoo · « **Reply #18 on:** September 27, 2011, 06:32:36 PM »

On Saegheh topic, it is rumored that the reason it has yet to carry AAM on its wing tips is because of the change in airflow in the rear of the aircraft in some speeds cause flutter. I don't have any hard evidence but this rumor could be the truth knowing that the single rudder was changed to two. Again if this is true, it must be in high angle of attack air flow regime.

I guess one can check this out by making a CAE model and run CFD analysis!

Catsoo

ahriman46 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 27, 2011, 06:55:51 PM »

Quote from: shiageorgia on September 27, 2011, 04:13:47 PM

F-35 is not in service in significant numbers and will not be at least 7-8 years...

its too expensive!

M-ATF · « **Reply #20 on:** September 27, 2011, 07:14:16 PM »

Catsoo
I dont think so.
One of the Saeqeh's has rail on tip of wings like F-5's.
I beleive they havent decided to use AA missiles on Saeqeh till now, if they want to use AA missile and using it on wing tips causes problems, they can use it under wings. we also havent seen any guided Air-to-ground missile too.
So the reason we havent seen any AA on Saeqeh isnt that it cause problems, it is that they havent shown us or havent had any plan to use it till now due to some reasons like development a new domestical radar for it or other reasons.

Catsoo · « **Reply #21 on:** September 27, 2011, 08:27:47 PM »

Quote from: M-ATF on September 27, 2011, 07:14:16 PM

Catsoo
I dont think so.
One of the Saeqeh's has rail on tip of wings like F-5's.
I beleive they havent decided to use AA missiles on Saeqeh till now, if they want to use AA missile and using it on wing tips causes problems, they can use it under wings. we also havent seen any guided Air-to-ground missile too.
So the reason we havent seen any AA on Saeqeh isnt that it cause problems, it is that they havent shown us or havent had any plan to use it till now due to some reasons like development a new domestical radar for it or other reasons.

M-ATF,

Well, a new development would be to use AAMs mounted under the wing which means a new rework on the system. However, This plane came with wing tip mounts for the AAMs but there is no such application yet. Ordinarily we should have seen this configuration in the latest maneuvers in tests, but we didn't!

What is fact is that Saegheh is very late in AAM application which is its standard configuration. The question is why not? This problem, whatever it may be, must be resolved ASAP otherwise a squadron of Saegheh will remain in service with only machine gun and dumb bombs, not a smart plane at all with no or very little protection!

Catsoo

Lur · « **Reply #22 on:** September 27, 2011, 08:31:24 PM »

PERSPOLIS · « **Reply #23 on:** September 27, 2011, 10:27:31 PM »

Quote from: Eagle2009 on September 27, 2011, 05:42:34 AM

PERSPOLIS,

Using aircraft such as the F-5 and F-7 to take out cruise missiles is not only pretty wasteful it's not practical. During the Cold War both sides made aircraft that were claimed to be able to take out cruise missiles, but cruise missile threat at the time was not conventionally armed cruise missiles but nuclear armed ones. The difference? Nuclear-armed cruise missile barrages would be much smaller in terms of missiles used (for obvious reasons). Not to mention the aircraft both sides built that could handle this job were quite few. The MiG-31 was the only Soviet design that could feasibly and effective accomplish the task because of it's armament of 4-6 R-33 AAMs (equivalent to the AIM-54) while the US only had the F-14 to do the task. This was because other aircraft like the Su-27 and F-15s were primarily armed with SARH (Semi-Active Radar Homing) which are not ideal to use against low-flying targets like a cruise missile.

By that basis alone a F-5 and F-7 would be worthless due to their limited ability of only carrying 4 missiles total. Cruise missile strikes involved hundreds of missiles and therefore Iran would need to deploy their entire F-5 and F-7 fleet at once to try and stop them all. It's not practical nor logical use of these aircraft. Iran's F-14s are the only aircraft capable of tackling such a task with any real chance of success and there are likely not enough to stop a large-scale cruise missile strike (though they could certain put a dent in it). This is likely why Iran is designing systems like the Mesbah-1, in conjunction with the TorM1, to counter the cruise missile threat effectively (both cost-wise and ability-wise).

And to date all reports of F-5Es getting a major radar upgrade (other than improvements to the original) have never been proven. Specifically reports of attempts to use Russian radars to upgrade them are completely bunk, and are in the same category of "myths" as reports in the 90's of Russia helping to re-engine Iran's F-14s..Completely without basis.

Eagle 2009

again we are talking about iran. what you say is true for US but not for Iran. Iran has few f14 s lets say 60. this is not enough

to hold bachk cruise missiles attack, on the other hand using 200 f7 f6 f5 gives you a much better chance , plus cruise missiles are not manouvering dogfighting chaffing ecm etc , one can take them out with gun. so having 4 missiles is not bad. plus these cruise missiles are subsonic. So as you can see f5 f6 f7 have some superiority over them.

I think I had seen a picture of airguard radar saying it is a f5 radar.

So in case of war f14 and mig 29 will do air to air cambat and also helping f5 f6 f7 to locate the cruise mossiles

f4 Su24 do the bombings. something like that. try to put yourself in IRIAF shoes and come up with a solution.

Nightstrike · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2011, 11:17:05 PM »

The only hope for Iran's airforce is building an air superiority fighter and MASS producing it. Any war with the United States, and Iranian airspace will be saturated by hundreds of advanced fighters. The other option is to build and mass produce a mobile long range SAM.