Iran Military Forum

I agree with M-ATF on this, Does anyone know if they showed the homemade jet engine they said they would show?

Catsoo,

Actually there is an image out there of a Saeghe cockpit and it is identical to the F-5E cockpit. I had the picture on my old computer but can't find it now but it was at an event where the Defense Minister was sitting in the cockpit.

M-ATF,

I too once believed the Saegheh was a demonstrator but that makes little sense today. For one, differences between the original Saeghe and the 4 that followed is confusing. Now if each Saeghe was slightly different from the others than your theory would make more sense to me but they arent. The four newer Saegheh are virtually identical in appearance and are also alike in their differences from the original (unmodified intakes, having traditional radomes, and how the tails are mounted). These differences suggest the original was a new built aircraft while the others are conversions. Would it not make more sense to modifiy a F-5 for the original instead of building it from scratch? It's almost like the program is backwards, building a new aircraft first and then converting old airframes afterwards. This is why the whole program makes little sense to me.

Rakhsh786,

My observation has nothing to do with aesthetics. It has to do with how they compare to the original Saeghe. When you compare the original to the others, the original's skin is much smoother. Now if they were all new built aircraft they should have similar looking skins otherwise it would be a sign of poor craftmanship. I dont think Iranian engineers are poor craftsman so to me that is strong evidence the newer Saeghe are just converted airframes. Now to mention the fact of how different the tails are mounted from the original to the newer aircraft. This suggests two possibilites. Either the modifications made to the original Saeghe were not good adequete or the newer aircraft are converted airframes. I choose to believe that later.

Hello Together

My first post here!  I'm a big fan of Military Aviation and so of Iranian Air Force with their Tomcats, MiG-29 and own stuff.

First everybody who says: "Saeqeh is a F-5 with 2 tails." is basicly wrong. There are some skills every Aircraft has (or has not) and which makes it to what it is. Speed, aerodynamics, design, wight, maneuvrability, cockpit, engine, electric senses (rader etc,) bordcomputer, range, armament, defense-shield and e-warfare are probably the most important.

Of all this conditions Saeqeh is same with F-5: the design. Which does not mean that aerodynamics is similar, small may change a lot at 1.500 km/h. With super computers which you can buy for 1000 bugs in supermarket it's today so much easier to create a Aircraft. So Saeqeh is definitly much more better than 1960 F-5. Question is how good it is?  And how much better is 5th Generation of Saeqeh compared to First one? How Stealth is Saeqeh? How fast? What can you fire at it and it can take or defend it?

And Iran is blessed to not get USA weapons and no other weapons, too. Retiered F-16 on credit want no country and Iran is forbidden to get it. How have you done this? We still have F/A-18 and Mc Donalds here, help us :-)

Still, Saeqeh has no future with this desing. It has two basic mistakes, one out of F-5 (and quite every aircraft today has it) and one out of F/A-18. First is that the below is smaller than the above, if you know what i mean. It should be like a bird: the below (stomach) is much bigger than the top to create a ascending force.
You can not see it very good on the image, but if you look at a flying crow or at a sparrow, you will see exactly what i mean. The stomeace is so much bigger than the back is, which is at every bird quit straight when flying to avoid dowing force. Next Iranian Aircraft has a fish as model, which is a big step ahead because for fishes is waterdynamic as important as for the jet aerodynamic. Next step would be a real bird as model ;-) I come back later to that point and the ongoing same faults made at a lot after WWII Jets.

Second Mistake at Saeqeh is the V-Tails. Just don't make sense. Not at F/A-18, not at F-22 not at F-35, not on F-15 Silent Eagle and not on Saqeh. What would make sense is /\ Tails, like at Model F-19:

Because V-Tail has the following effect: If you turn right, the aircraft rolls left, so it is then like when your on a rollercoaster and go downwords when allready very fast: you get pressed in your belt. It should be the other way round: If you turn right, the aircraft sould turn right (like every bird does). /\ Tails would bring this, F-4 pilots maybe no that because there back is a little bit 'down':


What does this mean? Basicly this: If you are pilot of a F/A-18 or Saeqeh, you should alway fly on the back, then you have the best aircraft. Otherway you might need Fly-by-Wire...  ;-) (small joke against modern pilots: What is a UAV? A: A Unmaned Aerial Vehicle, a Aircraft that is flown by a un-man-ed pilot sitting on a chair...)

So under the line Saeqeh is a good thing for Iran because it is a threat to thouse who might want attack. And if you have that plane you can build up on that. On what do you want build up when you have nothing? And there are open questions which I need to know because I can still not class saeqeh. Is it F-20 Tigershark came reality? Or is it a hidden F-22? Or a Flying Fart? Who knows? Say it, by answering these questions:
- Maximum Speed at low and high
- Maximum hight (very important against AWACS and B-52)
- Dry thrust of Engines in kn (go to hell, lbf)
- range and ferry range
- numbers built and armend and ready to fight
- How Stealth?

Would be great to know, but may be they want to have some "unknowns".

Cheers

Hi Medroit, welcome, you mentioned intrestiong points thanks.

Eagle,
have you seen this report about production of new cabin for fighters (consist of new canopy and cockpit ) by Iran Electronic Industries Company and Opttic Industries of Isfahan Company?(report is in persian language):

http://www.aja.ir/portal/Home/ShowPage.aspx?Object=News&CategoryID=9ce0ffff-6667-4cc8-8cc7-7d8be06f03e4&WebPartID=2e7955f8-26ce-4f17-8474-d27311d970c3&ID=f1fb1a0e-6ffb-4479-8a79-82217b111a30


so i think Saeqeh is a multiphase project,maybe in the first phases of project new cockpit hadnt been their priority and they used F-5 cockpit and many other parts of F-5, but in each phase they design and produce new components for example new radar or ... ,

recently we heard about production stealth body for Iranian fighters, it can be for Saeqeh or Tomcats, if it is for Saeqeh we can consider it as another phase.

and we heard about production of engines and radars for fighters , so we can consider it as another phase for really mass production of a fighter.

two years after unveiling Saeqeh , Iran inagurated production line of supersonic landing gear.

about differences of Saeqeh's i have read in some reports that Iranian commander say there are three generations of Saeqeh, but we see just two different Saeqeh (external difference), so it is possible the differences of them are internal .

Because they didn't ...

Could this be photoshopped?

Catsoo

... and also this:

Pretty hard to comment on this jet ..

Looks promising yet not details .

Only way to asses if its a reliable design is to wait an see if this aircraft comes into mass production .

what are these saeqehs carrying ?

Outwardly, the Saeqeh is of a conventional design and layout, appearing as something of a slight cross-breed consisting of the American-made Northrop F-5 Tiger and the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet. It is more in the class of the former, however, due to Iranian experience in the operation of the F-5 from decades prior. The cockpit is situated in the forward fuselage which consists of a long nose cone housing a radar system. The cockpit is covered over in a large canopy and only the rear view is covered by the fuselage spine -  the rest of the views out of the cockpit are unobstructed. Wings are low set monoplane assembly fitted to amidships. The fuselage is straddled by a pair of intake ducts that run three-quarters of the fuselage length and aspirate the two engines. Each intake features a smallish rectangular opening at the front and exhausts through a pair of circular rings at the rear. Instead of the F-5 Tiger's single vertical tail fin, the Saeqeh fields a pair of outward canted vertical fins similar in scope to the F/A-18 Hornet. The undercarriage is of a conventional tricycle design made up of two main legs and a nose leg. The main legs retract inwards towards center line while the nose leg retracted forward, under and ahead of the cockpit floor. The twin engine arrangement and twin vertical tail fins are the key differentiating features of the Saeqeh when compared to the F-5.

Due to the lack of available information, some technical aspects of the Saeqeh are either assumed or estimated - some even based on the capabilities of the F-5 itself. The aircraft will most likely feature a modernized digital cockpit with avionics and armament systems that allow it to compete on the modern battlefield. Her armament stable will most likely be largely Russian in origin and include access to the latest in guided-missile and bomb technology. Her defensive suite is said to be entirely locally-produced within the Iranian military complex. negating the need to procure expensive or limited-function systems from foreign parties. The Saeqeh is not a 5th Generation design by any scope and does not incorporate any known stealth technologies as may be found in the America f-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II series of jets or the upcoming Russian Sukhoi T-50. In fact, the Saeqeh may be nothing more than a modernized, highly-modified indigenous version of the American F-5E Tiger II and thusly showcase similar agility and only limited multi-role qualities, While Iranian authorities compare the Saeqeh favorably tho the United States Navy's F/A 18 Hornet mount. its true capabilities remain to be seen. To date. at least five Saeqeh aircraft have been known produced by the Iran Aircraft Manufacturing Industrial Company with a further 24 to be expected. The first squadron to field the Saeqeh has already been created.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=766

@kaman

That plane doesn't look recently built, looks refurbished or modified older F-5E.

@kaman

That plane doesn't look recently built, looks refurbished or modified older F-5E.

Indeed. I am 99.99% certain that these are refurbished F-5s. They didn't even bother replacing the ejection seats with newer Zevzda ones. On the other hand I believe that the Simorgh integrates more domestic components (mainly cockpit, entire nose section etc. Also it is much easier to build an entirely new aircraft rather than replicating one. If you notice, one of the hard points comes from an old F-5 (greenish camo).