Author Topic: Why is the IRIAF being totally neglected? (Read 3229 times)

lulldapull · « **on:** November 24, 2011, 01:18:24 PM »

Guys to be very honest it's about time that the IRIAF gets an upgrade.

As important from a defensive point of view is to urgently procure an initial batch of Flankers from Russia. The Su-30 series can form the nucleus of a recreated IRIAF.

I am very disappointed with the IRIAF leadership for not lobbying their case for an upgrade with the Government. They can keep ignoring the IRIAF at their own peril.

Ich · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2011, 03:07:43 PM »

I tried it so much at the spanish "Sorteo de Navidad" and "ElGordo" to get 40 mill buying one SU-30. But i still have no luck till yet

IronHorse110 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2011, 03:30:45 PM »

Iran is more interested in air defense systems, then purchasing fighter jets. IRIAF already has plans on building domestic fighter jets, but at the moment the main focus is air defense systems.

The cost for fighter jets are too much and they would need 1,000 of them to be able to hold up against US/NATO, but with a good air defense network they can shoot out anything that enters the Islamic Republics air space.

Nonbarbari · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2011, 05:31:15 PM »

Exactly, we need air defense more right now..

Harry_Thomason · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2011, 06:12:23 PM »

Iran has its priorities right - IRIAF has no chance against NATO fighters in the air dog fights, unless it gets 500+ Su-30-35, thats 25+ bln., and Russia probably wouldnt even sell those.

Stack air defense, and thats what Iran is focusing on. Its 100 times cheaper to kill super-expensive US/EU fighters

parthenon · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2011, 06:29:39 PM »

I'm with Harry and YMJ

Iranthebest · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2011, 08:46:37 PM »

YM and Harry, you guys are somewhat right, but even if we invest billions in our airdefence the coalition forces will be still be able to do some bombing in our coujn
our country (unless you think not even 1 fighter would be able to cross our airspace because of our super duper airdefence)
we must counter them in the skies, right now we are somewhat paralyzed. to be honest the fighter jet development is going slow, it is not statisfying at all
we need to put up a clear fighter jet project with a long term succesful plan. our airforce will for sure give a up a tough fight but it will get defeated at the end
we must acquire modern jets to counter these american warmongers

IronHorse110 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 24, 2011, 10:47:43 PM »

"we must acquire modern jets to counter these american warmongers "

Air defense is much more cost effective, for now, than buying air craft from a foreign country. A domestic produced fighter jet, will come in due time. When it will be displayed, who knows.

"to be honest the fighter jet development is going slow, it is not statisfying at all"

- How do you know this exactly? Prior to the Iraq war, you would not have known how advanced Iran's missile technology had become, but once push came to shove Iran started to display its arsenal one by one. What makes you think they are not just hiding it for security reasons and an element of surprise?

Investing billions of dollars in purchasing fighter jets, would be an absolute waste of money.

I'm not sure how good Iran's air-defense is, but in today's modern warfare arena, a good air defense NETWORK can block out an enemy aircraft pretty well.

IronHorse110 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 24, 2011, 10:56:13 PM »


US AIR supremacy threatened by Russia and China	Small \| Large

mamdali · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2011, 04:51:27 AM »

Quote from: Iranthebest on November 24, 2011, 08:46:37 PM

YM and Harry, you guys are somewhat right, but even if we invest billions in our airdefence the coalition forces will be still be able to do some bombing in our coujn
our country (unless you think not even 1 fighter would be able to cross our airspace because of our super duper airdefence)
we must counter them in the skies, right now we are somewhat paralyzed. to be honest the fighter jet development is going slow, it is not statisfying at all
we need to put up a clear fighter jet project with a long term succesful plan. our airforce will for sure give a up a tough fight but it will get defeated at the end
we must acquire modern jets to counter these american warmongers

You're thinking too symmetrically. Iran's defense against ANY aggression is its asymmetric missile deterrent and its policy of nuclear ambiguity. If aircraft get through and inflict damage Iran will respond by destroying regional assets not to mention closing the Persian Gulf. In an ideal situation, Iran doesn't even need an air defense system. But considering a layered approach to defense, it has an effective and SUFFICIENT one today. Additionally, airforces will move away from manned craft sooner rather than later and, considering this transition, investing in manned aircraft is foolish. Thinking in terms of a 1-to-1 matching of abilities (aircraft vs. aircraft, boat vs boat, etc, etc) is foolish as well. Iran's defense doctrine is almost entirely asymmetric so always think in those terms. Iran's current indigenous dabbling in manned craft is almost surely to build a knowledge base for development of future unmanned systems (I believe). Iran will almost certainly never acquire advanced MANNED aircraft and it will be foolish to do so (I believe).

Mamdali

Ich · « **Reply #10 on:** November 25, 2011, 08:38:27 AM »

Quote from: mamdali on November 25, 2011, 04:51:27 AM

....Additionally, airforces will move away from manned craft sooner rather than later and, considering this transition, investing in manned aircraft is foolish.
Thinking in terms of a 1-to-1 matching of abilities (aircraft vs. aircraft, boat vs boat, etc, etc) is foolish as well. Iran's defense doctrine is almost
entirely asymmetric so always think in those terms. Iran's current indigenous dabbling in manned craft is almost surely to build a knowledge base
for development of future unmanned systems (I believe). Iran will almost certainly never acquire advanced MANNED aircraft and it will be foolish to do so (I believe).

Mamdali

Yes, the future is for the robots. So, investing in very agile autonomous UAVs with high AI and good dogfight capabillity is investing in the future.
And dont forget the "swarm-abillitys" where hundrets connected together and agitate like one

lulldapull · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2011, 01:28:52 PM »

Saddam also believed that he didn't need an Airforce! He was totally proven wrong, when his Air defences were suppressed and systematically eliminated.

I totally disagree with the notion that Iran does not need an Airforce anymore.

Without a powerful defensive Airforce Iran is at the mercy of the aggressor.

This will bite us on the ass, and will leave the NATO and US fighters free domain over our air space. They can come in and go as they please.

Iran should lobby Russia to start the supply of the Su-30's to replace all of the obsolete F-4, F-5 and F-14's immediately. Iran's leadership should request CHina to start helping out on a J-20 type local development on an urgent basis.

lulldapull · « **Reply #12 on:** November 25, 2011, 01:32:15 PM »

I also don't believe that the shafagh is anything more than a Yak-130.

If the Iranian defense establishment have something up their sleeve, they better accelerate its development, because the prospect of a big war is not far. We have a lot of threats now, and better get our Air force back quickly

IronHorse110 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2011, 03:17:44 PM »

Quote

Saddam also believed that he didn't need an Airforce! He was totally proven wrong, when his Air defences were suppressed and systematically eliminated.

I totally disagree with the notion that Iran does not need an Airforce anymore.

I don't think Iraq and Iran are comparable, its apples and oranges. The terrain alone is completely different, the size of the countries are different, the airdefense networks are different
and no one says Iran does not need an airforce.

The conclusion that many have come to is that for the short term, Iran needs to invest into airdefense and missile technology rather than purchasing fighter jets.
It's an economical reasoning and long term planning.
This doesn't mean that they do not need an airforce, or are not developing a fighter jet.

Quote from: lulldapull on November 25, 2011, 01:28:52 PM

Without a powerful defensive Airforce Iran is at the mercy of the aggressor.

This will bite us on the ass, and will leave the NATO and US fighters free domain over our air space. They can come in and go as they please.

Iran should lobby Russia to start the supply of the Su-30's to replace all of the obsolete F-4, F-5 and F-14's immediately. Iran's leadership should request CHina to start helping out on a J-20 type local development on an urgent basis.

I'm not sure, but i think the F-4's, F-5's and F-14's Iran have are highly upgraded. How much this upgrade will be able to compete against modern jets, is up to question, but many many people say its not the fighter that is important but the AA missiles, radars and pilot skills which will determine the dog fight.

Apollyon · « **Reply #14 on:** November 25, 2011, 11:48:21 PM »

I would imagine because Iran has priorities.
Right now Iran does not have unlimited resources.
The highest priorities right now are defense, in terms of missile defense, air, space, cyberpace, land, water, and intelligence &c..
Not projecting force ATM.

For every dollar that goes into a shiny new jet that won't see action, is one dollar less to spend on WMD deterrent and SAM. Priorities can overwhelmingly decide the outcome of any 'big'-war.

Iran should overwhelmingly invest in R&D for mass-production of AA battery as well as nuclear weapon tech. and ballistic missile tech. to mount the warheads. Secondly, intelligence and cyber security. Third priority would be the ability for Iran to project force into Persian Gulf, take out enemy ships and mine the gulf...
Lastly, land and air force.

Surveillance satellites, and perhaps someday kamikaze satellites to take out the enemy's, in LEO will also become something of a priority in the future.

mamdali · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2011, 06:13:17 AM »

Quote from: Ich on November 25, 2011, 08:38:27 AM

Yes, the future is for the robots. So, investing in very agile autonomous UAVs with high AI and good dogfight capabillity is investing in the future.
And dont forget the "swarm-abillitys" where hundrets connected together and agitate like one

Just to be clear, by 'unmanned' I mean craft without a human pilot inside. This does not exclude remotely controlled craft by humans. Although automated systems are very interesting, I think they are still at least 10 years off from being fielded in true combat conditions Remotely controlled combat craft, however, are well within reach of Iran, I believe, and can probably be fielded much earlier.

Mamdali

Ich · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2011, 07:07:04 PM »

Yes, fully AI is on the long run, but is a must in military research. Remotly controlled UAV like the Predator-Drone is still in progress and will rule the battlefield in combination with e.g. drone Tanks in the next 10-20 years.

Due to lack of funds the way Iran is going is ok. Me miss the mach 10 ATM with KE-head...........ok ok maybe we see that never

omedAFG · « **Reply #17 on:** November 27, 2011, 11:40:18 AM »

i think that iran is investing in the short-term. R&D for fighter planes would take much longer than developing already working SAMs and ballistic missiles. i think iran has its priorties right. the current inventory of the air force, i think, would put up a decent fight in the air but would sooner rather than later be destroyed. most the jets iran has atm, i think, would just be useless for ground attack and naval attacks. however, in an event of a war, iran can use its fighters (f-14, Mig-29) like the vietnamese did during the Vietnam War. It can use hit and run tactics; fire all missiles at enemy fighters and hit the after burners and fly away from their reach. iran atm does not have the technology or the know-how to produce fighters capable of going head to head with an American/israeli fighter.

lulldapull · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2011, 12:02:01 PM »

If Iran does not control the airspace above the battlefield, nothing will save it!

The end result will be like Saddam and Qaddhafi. Neither saddam nor Qaddhfi had air forces to deny the enemy access to attack the ground forces.

Iran has its priorities wrong!

Putin is personally involved in the program now:


Putin meets 'Stealth': PAK FA T-50 fighter jet presentation	Small \| Large

Vladimir Putin has put the strongest emphasis on resurrecting the Red Airforce again, and the PAk-FA is a clear example of that. The Russians know very well what happens when you allow the enemy in your airspace uncontested.

Ich · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2011, 02:28:39 PM »

@lulldapull

The starting point is very different. Russia starts with hundreds >MIG 31 and hundreds >SU-24. They also can reinvest money
in new birds by selling birds to other countries.

aryana · « **Reply #20 on:** December 01, 2011, 07:07:18 PM »

iraq and lybia did not have s-300

Soslan · « **Reply #21 on:** December 02, 2011, 01:17:13 PM »

You guys are right about surface to air capability, but Iranthebest is also right when he says there is a real need for new aircraft.

It wouldn't require hundreds in the albeit unlikely event of an attack on Iran, since they would be flying over home territory, and backed by the aforementioned surface to air batteries, BUT even so a proper and complete defence is not possible without new aircraft.

I think only the last round of sanctions made it impossible for Iran to get them from the Russian Federation.

I hope Russia gets tired of the west's constant belligerence in this regards and decides to lift the sanctions unilaterally. They are already showing signs that they have grown weary of America and Britain's constant harassment over "sanctions"

80-100 advanced Flankers would be good.

aryana · « **Reply #22 on:** December 02, 2011, 02:26:53 PM »

Quote from: Soslan on December 02, 2011, 01:17:13 PM

You guys are right about surface to air capability, but Iranthebest is also right when he says there is a real need for new aircraft.

It wouldn't require hundreds in the albeit unlikely event of an attack on Iran, since they would be flying over home territory, and backed by the aforementioned surface to air batteries, BUT even so a proper and complete defence is not possible without new aircraft.

I think only the last round of sanctions made it impossible for Iran to get them from the Russian Federation.

I hope Russia gets tired of the west's constant belligerence in this regards and decides to lift the sanctions unilaterally. They are already showing signs that they have grown weary of America and Britain's constant harassment over "sanctions"

80-100 advanced Flankers would be good.

that would never happen.

omedAFG · « **Reply #23 on:** December 03, 2011, 01:13:36 PM »

even if iran gets 80-100 flankers, it would take years to train the pilots and set up facilities to house and cater for the fighters. plus iran would have to spend millions in purchasing missiles, radars, etc. i dont think this is practical in the current political enviromoent.

lulldapull · « **Reply #24 on:** December 04, 2011, 11:44:38 AM »

If Iran does not spend the billions, not millions right now to get Flankers from Russia, and quickly train its pilots to fly them, the junk that the IRIAF currently flies will last 2 weeks against a NATO or USAF attack.

Only the latest Flankers or this PAK-FA can put up a fight against a massive NATO or USAF attack.

Even the primitive looking UAE people boast the latest F-16's with massive capability. Some one in the Iranian government responsible for the IRIAF needs to be shot

Forget the USAF or NATO, even the fuk*** Araab are laughing at us now.

Quote from: omedAFG on December 03, 2011, 01:13:36 PM

even if iran gets 80-100 flankers, it would take years to train the pilots and set up facilities to house and cater for the fighters. plus iran would have to spend millions in purchasing missiles, radars, etc. i dont think this is practical in the current political enviromoent.