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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Guys to be very honest it's about time that the IRIAF gets an upgrade.

As important from a defensive point of view is to urgently procure an initial batch of Flankers from Russia. The Su-30 series can form the nucleus of a recreated IRIAF.

I am very disappointed with the IRIAF leadership for not lobbying their case for an upgrade with the Government. They can keep ignoring the IRIAF at their own peril. 

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de
Major (سرگرد)
I tried it so much at the spanish "Sorteo de Navidad" and "ElGordo" to get 40 mill buying one SU-30. But i still have no luck till yet  :(
================================================================================
Me like this statement

http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=19216.msg171013.#msg171013

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Vahdat, Moghavemat, Ezzat
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ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
Iran is more interested in air defense systems, then purchasing fighter jets. IRIAF already has plans on building domestic fighter jets, but at the moment the main focus is air defense systems.

The cost for fighter jets are too much and they would need 1,000 of them to be able to hold up against US/NATO, but with a good air defense network they can shoot out anything that enters the Islamic Republics air space.

Ya Ali, molla Ali (as)

"There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" - Imam Ali (as)

"''melate ma neshan dade'ast ke be hadaf haye khod momen, va dar rahe on, ta nesar'e jaan eestade'ast.. chenin melati, az america va az hiiich ghodrati nemitars'ad, va be yaari'e khoda neshan khahad daad ke pirooz az on' e hagh, va momenan be hagh ast!"

- Rahbar'e moazzam'e Enghlab'e Islami Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei

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np
S.M. Sergeant (استوار دوم)
Exactly, we need air defense more right now..
You are once again threatened my beloved homeland,
I shall defend you until the last breath,
We embrace death if that's what it takes to save you, we have lived by Bushido code all along.

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lt
Private 1st Class (سرباز یكم)
Iran has its priorities right - IRIAF has no chance against NATO fighters in the air dog fights, unless it gets 500+ Su-30-35, thats 25+ bln., and Russia probably wouldnt even sell those.

Stack air defense, and thats what Iran is focusing on. Its 100 times cheaper to kill super-expensive US/EU fighters  ;)

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ve
Private (E-2) (سرباز دوم)

I'm with Harry and YMJ
http://demagocracy.livejournal.com
http://asymmetronix.livejournal.com

"Bunker"Bill, aka the "Member Formerly Known as Parthenon" (MFKAP)

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ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
YM and Harry, you guys are somewhat right, but even if we invest billions in our airdefence the coalition forces will be still be able to do some bombing in our coujn
our country (unless you think not even 1 fighter would be able to cross our airspace because of our super duper airdefence)
we must counter them in the skies, right now we are somewhat paralyzed. to be honest the fighter jet development is going slow, it is not statisfying at all
we need to put up a clear fighter jet project with a long term succesful plan. our airforce will for sure give a up a tough fight but it will get defeated at the end
we must acquire modern jets to counter these american warmongers

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Vahdat, Moghavemat, Ezzat
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ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
"we must acquire modern jets to counter these american warmongers "

Air defense is much more cost effective, for now, than buying air craft from a foreign country. A domestic produced fighter jet, will come in due time. When it will be displayed, who knows.

"to be honest the fighter jet development is going slow, it is not statisfying at all"

- How do you know this exactly? Prior to the Iraq war, you would not have known how advanced Iran's missile technology had become, but once push came to shove Iran started to display its arsenal one by one. What makes you think they are not just hiding it for security reasons and an element of surprise?

Investing billions of dollars in purchasing fighter jets, would be an absolute waste of money.

I'm not sure how good Iran's air-defense is, but in today's modern warfare arena, a good air defense NETWORK can block out an enemy aircraft pretty well.

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ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)

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ir
Major (سرگرد)
YM and Harry, you guys are somewhat right, but even if we invest billions in our airdefence the coalition forces will be still be able to do some bombing in our coujn
our country (unless you think not even 1 fighter would be able to cross our airspace because of our super duper airdefence)
we must counter them in the skies, right now we are somewhat paralyzed. to be honest the fighter jet development is going slow, it is not statisfying at all
we need to put up a clear fighter jet project with a long term succesful plan. our airforce will for sure give a up a tough fight but it will get defeated at the end
we must acquire modern jets to counter these american warmongers

You're thinking too symmetrically.  Iran's defense against ANY aggression is its asymmetric missile deterrent and its policy of nuclear ambiguity.  If aircraft get through and inflict damage Iran will respond by destroying regional assets not to mention closing the Persian Gulf.   In an ideal situation, Iran doesn't even need an air defense system. But considering a layered approach to defense, it has an effective and SUFFICIENT one today. Additionally, airforces will move away from manned craft sooner rather than later and, considering this transition, investing in manned aircraft is foolish. Thinking in terms of a 1-to-1 matching of abilities (aircraft vs. aircraft, boat vs boat, etc, etc) is foolish as well.  Iran's defense doctrine is almost entirely asymmetric so always think in those terms. Iran's current indigenous dabbling in manned craft is almost surely to build a knowledge base for development of future unmanned systems (I believe).  Iran will almost certainly never acquire advanced MANNED aircraft and it will be foolish to do so (I believe).

Mamdali
(Note:  I hope I'm being redundant by saying that given the state of misinformation and factless and unsupported content that is rife on the 'internet' today, naturally, I cannot endorse, believe, support, or accept any of links posted by me or others.  I personally find them interesting, however, as they open new perspectives for me.  I leave it to the reader to glean what they can or want from them).
Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 05:04:50 AM by mamdali

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de
Major (سرگرد)
....Additionally, airforces will move away from manned craft sooner rather than later and, considering this transition, investing in manned aircraft is foolish.
Thinking in terms of a 1-to-1 matching of abilities (aircraft vs. aircraft, boat vs boat, etc, etc) is foolish as well.  Iran's defense doctrine is almost
 entirely asymmetric so always think in those terms. Iran's current indigenous dabbling in manned craft is almost surely to build a knowledge base
 for development of future unmanned systems (I believe).  Iran will almost certainly never acquire advanced MANNED aircraft and it will be foolish to do so (I believe).

Mamdali

Yes, the future is for the robots. So, investing in very agile autonomous UAVs with high AI and good dogfight capabillity is investing in the future.
 And dont forget the "swarm-abillitys" where hundrets connected together and agitate like one  8)

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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Saddam also believed that he didn't need an Airforce! He was totally proven wrong, when his Air defences were suppressed and systematically eliminated.

I totally disagree with the notion that Iran does not need an Airforce anymore.

Without a powerful defensive Airforce Iran is at the mercy of the aggressor.

This will bite us on the ass, and will leave the NATO and US fighters free domain over our air space. They can come in and go as they please.

Iran should lobby Russia to start the supply of the Su-30's to replace all of the obsolete F-4, F-5 and F-14's immediately. Iran's leadership should request CHina to start helping out on a J-20 type local development on an urgent basis.


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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
I also don't believe that the shafagh is anything more than a Yak-130.

If the Iranian defense establishment have something up their sleeve, they better accelerate its development, because the prospect of a big war is not far. We have a lot of threats now, and better get our Air force back quickly

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ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
Quote
Saddam also believed that he didn't need an Airforce! He was totally proven wrong, when his Air defences were suppressed and systematically eliminated.

I totally disagree with the notion that Iran does not need an Airforce anymore.

I don't think Iraq and Iran are comparable, its apples and oranges. The terrain alone is completely different, the size of the countries are different, the airdefense networks are different
 and no one says Iran does not need an airforce.

The conclusion that many have come to is that for the short term, Iran needs to invest into airdefense and missile technology rather than purchasing fighter jets.
 It's an economical reasoning and long term planning.
This doesn't mean that they do not need an airforce, or are not developing a fighter jet.



Without a powerful defensive Airforce Iran is at the mercy of the aggressor.

This will bite us on the ass, and will leave the NATO and US fighters free domain over our air space. They can come in and go as they please.

Iran should lobby Russia to start the supply of the Su-30's to replace all of the obsolete F-4, F-5 and F-14's immediately. Iran's leadership should request CHina to start helping out on a J-20 type local development on an urgent basis.



I'm not sure, but i think the F-4's, F-5's and F-14's Iran have are highly upgraded. How much this upgrade will be able to compete against modern jets, is up to question, but many many people say its not the fighter that is important but the AA missiles, radars and pilot skills which will determine the dog fight.

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al
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
I would imagine because Iran has priorities.
Right now Iran does not have unlimited resources.
The highest priorities right now are defense, in terms of missile defense, air, space, cyberpace, land, water, and intelligence &c..
Not projecting force ATM.

For every dollar that goes into a shiny new jet that won't see action, is one dollar less to spend on WMD deterrent and SAM. Priorities can overwhelmingly decide the outcome of any 'big'-war.

Iran should overwhelmingly invest in R&D for mass-production of AA battery as well as nuclear weapon tech. and ballistic missile tech. to mount the warheads. Secondly, intelligence and cyber security. Third priority would be the ability for Iran to project force into Persian Gulf, take out enemy ships and mine the gulf...
Lastly, land and air force.

Surveillance satellites, and perhaps someday kamikaze satellites to take out the enemy's, in LEO will also become something of a priority in the future.
"The sword is victorious over money, the master-will subdues again the plunderer-will. . . A power can be overthrown only by another power, not by a principle, and only one power that can confront money is left. Money is overthrown and abolished by blood. Life is alpha and omega . . . It is the fact of facts within the world-as-history."

- Oswald Spengler
Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 12:03:18 AM by Apollyon

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ir
Major (سرگرد)
Yes, the future is for the robots. So, investing in very agile autonomous UAVs with high AI and good dogfight capabillity is investing in the future.
 And dont forget the "swarm-abillitys" where hundrets connected together and agitate like one  8)

Just to be clear, by 'unmanned' I mean craft without a human pilot inside.  This does not exclude remotely controlled craft by humans.  Although automated systems are very interesting, I think they are still at least 10 years off from being fielded in true combat conditions  Remotely controlled combat craft, however, are well within reach of Iran, I believe, and can probably be fielded much earlier.

Mamdali

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de
Major (سرگرد)
Yes, fully AI is on the long run, but is a must in military research. Remotly controlled UAV like the Predator-Drone is still in progress and will  rule the battlefield in combination with e.g. drone Tanks in the next 10-20 years.

Due to lack of funds the way Iran is going is ok. Me miss the mach 10 ATM with KE-head...........ok ok maybe we see that never  :P

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au
Private 1st Class (سرباز یكم)
i think that iran is investing in the short-term. R&D for fighter planes would take much longer than developing already working SAMs and ballistic missiles. i think iran has its priorties right. the current inventory of the air force, i think, would put up a decent fight in the air but would sooner rather than later be destroyed. most the jets iran has atm, i think, would just be useless for ground attack and naval attacks. however, in an event of a war, iran can use its fighters (f-14, Mig-29) like the vietnamese did during the Vietnam War. It can use hit and run tactics; fire all missiles at enemy fighters and hit the after burners and fly away from their reach. iran atm does not have the technology or the know-how to produce fighters capable of going head to head with an American/israeli fighter.
And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. Quran (3:103)

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au
Corporal (سرجوخه)
If Iran does not control the airspace above the battlefield, nothing will save it!

The end result will be like Saddam and Qaddhafi. Neither saddam nor Qaddhfi had air forces to deny the enemy access to attack the ground forces.

Iran has its priorities wrong!

Putin is personally involved in the program now:



Vladimir Putin has put the strongest emphasis on resurrecting the Red Airforce again, and the PAk-FA is a clear example of that. The Russians know very well what happens when you allow the enemy in your airspace uncontested.
Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 12:04:59 PM by lulldapull

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de
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@lulldapull

The starting point is very different. Russia starts with hundreds >MIG 31 and hundreds >SU-24. They also can reinvest money
in new birds by selling birds to other countries.

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moores law driving force of innovation
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ir
Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
iraq and lybia did not have s-300
Iran Khodro largest auto maker in larger middle east

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWwHIPoQdw8&list=UUMF4vfECnuAPAfW0s6lMpyg&index=1&feature=plcp

<a href="http://www.quickiqtest.net" title="IQ Test"><img src="http://www.quickiqtest.net/graphic/badges/sf114.gif" width="150" height="75" alt="IQ Test" border="0"></a><br>QuickIQTest.net - <a title="Quick IQ Test" href="http://www.quickiqtest.net">IQ Test</a>

this is the fixed video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn-T-5k0_4E&list=UUMF4vfECnuAPAfW0s6lMpyg&index=1

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Freeloader (اش خور)
You guys are right about surface to air capability, but Iranthebest is also right when he says there is a real need for new aircraft.

It wouldn't require hundreds in the albeit unlikely event of an attack on Iran, since they would be flying over home territory, and backed by the aforementioned surface to air batteries, BUT even so a proper and complete defence is not possible without new aircraft.

I think only the last round of sanctions made it impossible for Iran to get them from the Russian Federation.

I hope Russia gets tired of the west's constant belligerence in this regards and decides to lift the sanctions unilaterally.  They are already showing signs that they have grown weary of America and Britain's constant harassment over "sanctions"

80-100 advanced Flankers would be good.


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ir
Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
You guys are right about surface to air capability, but Iranthebest is also right when he says there is a real need for new aircraft.

It wouldn't require hundreds in the albeit unlikely event of an attack on Iran, since they would be flying over home territory, and backed by the aforementioned surface to air batteries, BUT even so a proper and complete defence is not possible without new aircraft.

I think only the last round of sanctions made it impossible for Iran to get them from the Russian Federation.

I hope Russia gets tired of the west's constant belligerence in this regards and decides to lift the sanctions unilaterally.  They are already showing signs that they have grown weary of America and Britain's constant harassment over "sanctions"

80-100 advanced Flankers would be good.


that would never happen.

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au
Private 1st Class (سرباز یكم)
even if iran gets 80-100 flankers, it would take years to train the pilots and set up facilities to house and cater for the fighters. plus iran would have to spend millions in purchasing missiles, radars, etc. i dont think this is practical in the current political enviromoent.

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au
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If Iran does not spend the billions, not millions right now to get Flankers from Russia, and quickly train its pilots to fly them, the junk that the IRIAF currently flies will last 2 weeks against a NATO or USAF attack.

Only the latest Flankers or this PAK-FA can put up a fight against a massive NATO or USAF attack.

Even the primitive looking UAE people boast the latest F-16's with massive capability. Some one in the Iranian government responsible for the IRIAF needs to be shot

Forget the USAF or NATO, even the fuk*** Araab are laughing at us now.

even if iran gets 80-100 flankers, it would take years to train the pilots and set up facilities to house and cater for the fighters. plus iran would have to spend millions in purchasing missiles, radars, etc. i dont think this is practical in the current political enviromoent.
Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 11:49:03 AM by lulldapull

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