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Offline Catsoo

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« on: November 15, 2009, 11:19:23 PM »
+1

IRAN: Deceased airline executive's tale shows civil aviation challenges, dangers

November 15, 2009 |  8:38 am


Contrary to reports in the Iranian news media and this paper, the son of a well-known Aria Airlines executive who perished in a crash aboard one of his company's planes last summer is alive and well, and hoping to clear up some facts about his late dad.


The executive, Mehdi Dadpay, or Dadpei, was a retired U.S.-trained air force fighter pilot.

After the revolution, he risked his liberty to return home, distinguishing himself as a commander of an Iranian air force unit fighting in the Iran-Iraq war. He later organized humanitarian interventions in disaster areas. All this earned him the "grudging respect" of the political leadership, his son Ali Dadpay says.



It was this reputation, and not any particular political connections he had cultivated, that led him to be asked to run Kish Airlines, a small bankrupt firm and an early privatization experiment in Iran's aviation industry, says Ali, who lives in the U.S. and has his own blog (http://bazardispatch.blogspot.com/). 

"In four years, this airline was one of the most successful in Iran, with a large fleet, several offices, a catering center and a training program," Ali says.

The elder Dadpay succeeded despite the jealousies of his peers, eventually serving as the chief of other airlines.

In 2002, he launched the Arta Kish Flight School (http://www.artakish.ir/) , which eventually trained 300 male and female pilots.

Not just anyone gets to start an airline in Iran. Most of those who do are regime acolytes.

But his son says Mehdi Dadpay was a different breed.

By the time he started Aria, he had earned a stellar reputation in the business that let him get ahead without compromising his values, his son says.

"His hard work and independent character did not endear him to any government official or political leader," Ali says. "Officials did not let Aria Airlines operate because it was politically connected; they did so because no one could have argued that Mehdi Dadpay was not qualified."

Mehdi Dadpay's end came as a result of the realities of Iran's aviation industry, which Ali and other critics say is characterized by official mismanagement, crippling sanctions and a lack of resources and decent aircraft.

The "government demands low prices from airlines and imposes severe restrictions on airlines, while they do not have access to either credit lines or Western aircraft," Ali says. "These authorities never pushed for a more realistic policy: an increase in prices, asking for negotiations to lift sanctions or any other solution."

Airlines are forced to use untrustworthy Russian aircraft because they have no choice, given sanctions and government pressure to keep fares low. "None of the last 14 accidents ever motivated anyone to ban the use of Russian aircraft in Iran or to suggest a fare increase," Ali says.

Aviation pros must adapt themselves the best they can, Ali and other observers of the air industry have said.

Even at 69, his father continued to take part in his airline's day-to-day operations, sometimes personally inspecting the aircraft and flying them himself, Ali says.

"Instead of being on an aircraft sharing the fate of his crew and clients, he could have stayed home like other officials and executives," Ali says. "That he could not do. He belonged to his work. He died because he cared."

-- Borzou Daragahi in Beirut


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/11/iran-airline-executives-tragic-end-shows-civil-aviation-dangers.html

Offline Shirazi

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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 06:28:29 PM »
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Prices have to be at market levels, if the government wants to lower them it should subsidise the companies. Higher prices equal larger subnormal profits that can be spent on better Planes.

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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 07:03:14 PM »
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He also make's it seem like you can 'negotiate' with the west, without compramising you'r own interests and ideologies.

Negotiation is a road to compromise.  That means there is "give" and "take" involved with any kind of negotiation.  Otherwise it is not called negotiation.

To understand the situation better lets say the situation was reverse.  Iran was the United States (economically) and United States was Iran.  Would Iran sell its top of the line technology to the United States?  Or would Iran leverage its technology, military, and wealth to get the United States to do what it wanted?
"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
Albert Einstein

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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2009, 09:40:12 PM »
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Hypothetical situation's are pointless.

The reality is America is after world domination; it has been for the last century! No country can have an independent foreign policy if they deal with America, that is evident.

America will NOT compromise; why should we?

America's UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT for the zionist regime is another point, what has negotiations got the arab world for the last 60 years? NOWHERE!

Do you SERIOUSLY beleive you can compromise and NEGOTIATE with America?????

Quote
Higher prices equal larger subnormal profits that can be spent on better Planes.

i agree; however where can Iran under the circumstances buy the planes from?
Ya Ali, molla Ali (as)

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"''melate ma neshan dade'ast ke be hadaf haye khod momen, va dar rahe on, ta nesar'e jaan eestade'ast.. chenin melati, az america va az hiiich ghodrati nemitars'ad, va be yaari'e khoda neshan khahad daad ke pirooz az on' e hagh, va momenan be hagh ast!"

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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 12:12:58 AM »
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Hypothetical situation's are pointless.

I disagree.  They are the essence of understanding the situation.  If someone in Tehran thinks that they can continue to chant death to America and continue to adopt anti-American policies and oppose American agenda in the Middle East and at the same time be granted "Most Favorite Nations" status by U.S. Congress, they are sorely mistaken.  No amount of negotiation will make U.S. to sell its high tech material to Iran without any compromise from the Iranian side.

The reality is America is after world domination; it has been for the last century! No country can have an independent foreign policy if they deal with America, that is evident.

That is right to some extent.  Does Japan have an independent foreign policy? Does Turkey have an independent foreign policy?  Each one has some independence based on its own level of economic power.

America will NOT compromise; why should we?

America will compromise with a worthy opponent like it did with Russia and China.


Do you SERIOUSLY beleive you can compromise and NEGOTIATE with America?????

Yes, if you are willing to compromise.  But nobody is going to give you something for nothing.  If you don’t give anything in a negotiation, nobody will give you back anything in return.


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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2009, 09:10:28 PM »
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I disagree.

I feel its pointless, you feel its a way to make a point.

We must agree to disagree regarding hypothetical situations.


Quote
That is right to some extent.  Does Japan have an independent foreign policy? Does Turkey have an independent foreign policy?  Each one has some independence based on its own level of economic power.

I would boldly say no, Japan nor Turkey have independent foreign policies.

Turkey and Japan have recently shown a bit of independence, but for the last 50 years; foreign policy = inline with American agenda (or at least interwoven with each other)

Quote
America will compromise with a worthy opponent like it did with Russia and China.

I feel like they HAD to, it was the only option for them. To compromise.


Yes, if you are willing to compromise.  But nobody is going to give you something for nothing.  If you don’t give anything in a negotiation, nobody will give you back anything in return.


Regarding compromise, i will leave u with this :

"political power grows out the barrel of a gun"

&

"the only thing power respects, is power"

America is not a nation to compromise with; they are after domination. They have committed so many atrocities they are afraid to ever lose the power they hold.

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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2009, 11:39:34 PM »
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With all due respect YMJ, I am trying to follow your logic here and I am still trying to connect the dots.

I said that I disagreed with what you said.  I did not convey a feeling.  To this you replied "I feel its pointless, you feel its a way to make a point".  ???

Then when I brought the Russian and Chinees example, you started talking about feelings again.  you said:  "I feel like they HAD to, it was the only option for them. To compromise".

Let's stick with facts not feelings.

YMJ America in terms of military hardware, nuclear power, numerous worldwide military bases, as well as the domination of space, is stronger than any other nation on the world.  Of course they want to dominate.  Are you kidding me by even suggesting that I am saying otherwise?  Iran will either be content by living on its own in total isolation from U.S., England, France, Russia, China, and Germany or it needs to have some sort of relations with them.  Just the fact that Iran has held many different rounds of negotiations with these countries signifies that it needs to have political relationship, commerce, and technology from these countries.  It also means that Iran does not want a military confrontation with some or all of these contries, otherwise Iran would have thumbed its nose at them and would not even sit down at the same table with them. 

I am not saying America does not want world domination, it does.  But if Iran wants to buy new Boeing and Airbus aircraft and engines for its obsolete western aircrafts, it needs to sit down and negotiate with America and accept America’s domination and live like every other country in the world. 

However it is very hypocritical to denounce America on one hand, and then on the other hand scramble all over the world to buy old and ready to retire American and European planes at highly inflated prices.  What is more is after the planes are purchased, Iran has to struggle to keep them airworthy and plead for spare parts from the west on humanitarian grounds!!!

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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 12:38:19 AM »
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Let's stick with facts not feelings.

My revision to what i said:

I say its pointless, you say its a way to make a point.

"They are the essence of understanding the situation"

But its hypothetical, not real or factual..... hypothetical situation is based primarily on surmise rather than adequate evidence.

So please, stick to facts, not hypothetical situations. Then dont turn around and tell me "Let's stick with facts not feelings", when you used a hypothetical situation. I merely used the word 'feel' when i shouldve used the word 'say'.

what you bring up later on is more factual.

Quote
Iran will either be content by living on its own in total isolation from U.S., England, France, Russia, China, and Germany or it needs to have some sort of relations with them.Just the fact that Iran has held many different rounds of negotiations with these countries signifies that it needs to have political relationship, commerce, and technology from these countries.

I dont dissagree, but i dont fully agree.

 I dont trust America and I know if we compromise with them, it's because they have put pressure on us. I hope we dont compromise, rather we twist their arm to get what we want. This is what i hope. Can it happen?

12 trillion dollars says yes!!
300 billion dollar trade defecit says yes!!

 America has huge control over most nations; at this time in history there is a possibility to create a multipolar world. Now Iran can'not do this alone. It has to find countries with similiar ideologies and get closer to them rather then America and the west who have always been after hegemony.

Quote
I am not saying America does not want world domination, it does.  But if Iran wants to buy new Boeing and Airbus aircraft and engines for its obsolete western aircrafts, it needs to sit down and negotiate with America and accept America’s domination and live like every other country in the world. 

Personally i dont accept that and i hope the leaders of the Islamic Republic dont accept that. I hope no country accepts American domination.

I hope they do not sell out for "Boeing and Airbus aircraft and engines", but i see the point you are making. Sell out, if you want to have cool new planes for your civil aviation industry.

 Maybe i am too anti'imperialistic with my attitude and am not willing to compromise ideology for their superior technology.




Quote
However it is very hypocritical to denounce America on one hand, and then on the other hand scramble all over the world to buy old and ready to retire American and European planes at highly inflated prices.

What do you want Iran to do? Buy Russian passenger planes?? Make airplanes themselves?

Yes they denounce America, they denounce their hegemony, imperialism, greed, selfish attitude, many atrocities and interference.

Yes they denounce America, they denounce what they have done to our nation through coup d'état in the past, support of a reppressive and useless regime of the Shah. Their support for Saddam. Their support for the zionist entity. Their hegemony over the middle east. Their theft of over 20 billion USD of our foreign reserves after the revoloution.....but

Has Iran denounced technology and progress?!?!?!?!?! Whether its eastern, western, northern, african, asian, chinese or American? 

So have you heard Iran denounce technology and progress (specifically western technology or scientific knowledge)?? so where is the hypocrisy? Just because you denounce someone's evil ways, you must go back to the stone ages or be called a hypocrite?

Who made America what it is today? IMMIGRANTS.... 

You sound like a conceited and egotistic American.



 What is more is after the planes are purchased, Iran has to struggle to keep them airworthy and plead for spare parts from the west on humanitarian grounds!!!



You can only progress, through struggle. Not from getting a hand out. "give a man a fish, feed him for a day..teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime".. this saying never gets old...

the sanctions on Iran's civil aviation is meant to hurt who ? the government?? or the people?? is this not humanitarian grounds?




Offline Catsoo

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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 02:03:42 AM »
+1
A documentry report on Iran Civil Aviation with emphasis on recent Iranian airline crashs:

The Aviation Industry of Iran Small | Large



catsoo
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 07:01:25 PM by Pasdar »

Offline Shirazi

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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2009, 10:31:01 AM »
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You can only progress, through struggle. Not from getting a hand out. "give a man a fish, feed him for a day..teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime".. this saying never gets old...

That is wrong. You don't progress through struggle, are you telling me that the asian tigers progressed by chanting marg bar amrika? That saying has no relevance to what we are debating.

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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2009, 08:11:11 PM »
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That is wrong. You don't progress through struggle, are you telling me that the asian tigers progressed by chanting marg bar amrika? That saying has no relevance to what we are debating.

What do you think is the purpose of "marg bar amrika" chants and slogans?

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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2009, 02:42:19 AM »
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But its hypothetical, not real or factual.... hypothetical situation is based primarily on surmise rather than adequate evidence.
So please, stick to facts, not hypothetical situations.
To solve any kind of problem, you start with a valid hypothesis.  It may be proven right or wrong, but to denounce the scientific process is to ignore evidenced based scientific approach.

I dont trust America and I know if we compromise with them, it's because they have put pressure on us. I hope we dont compromise, rather we twist their arm to get what we want. This is what i hope. Can it happen?
12 trillion dollars says yes!!
300 billion dollar trade defecit says yes!!
You are free to trust or not to trust.  That is not the issue.  You are right to think that Iran is at the negotiation tables because of pressures that it is facing.  Several rounds of UN sanctions, lack of spare parts, high tech equipments, frozen assets, threat of military strike, pressure on banking systems, and the need for further foreign investments are some of the main pressures on Iran.  What gets interesting in reading your post is the notion that Iran can get what it wants by “twisting” America’s proverbial arm.  Well this is a nice thing to accomplish if someone in Iran is talented enough to do it.  While they have America in a chock-hold after twisting its arm, I suggest they get dozens of passenger aircraft and spare parts for the existing planes, hundreds of GE locomotives, frozen Iranian assets, new generation nuclear power reactors, advanced and high tech oil and gas drilling equipment, GTL technology and its license, etc.
By the way there is good profits to be made by United States in selling equipment to Iran, but it will be only a drop in the bucket compared to the 12 trillion dollars you spoke about.
I hope they do not sell out for "Boeing and Airbus aircraft and engines", but i see the point you are making. Sell out, if you want to have cool new planes for your civil aviation industry.
Sell out is different from compromise.  I did not suggest Iran should sell out to anybody.

What do you want Iran to do? Buy Russian passenger planes?? Make airplanes themselves?
The Russians themselves are eager to buy and use Airbus and Boeing aircraft.  No matter how many contracts iran signs with the Ukrainians or the Russians, Iran will not be able to assemble aircrafts in Iran that are superior to Antonov or Tupulev aircraft.  But it is a good start for the sake of transfer of technology and a platform to build upon for the next twenty to thirty years.  But if Iranian airliners want to operate in a free market without government subsidies, they need to be competitive with other world airlines.  That means they need latest model, state of the art aircraft that is not only safe, but is fuel efficient, has low cost of maintenance, and offers the most comfort and luxury to attract more and more foreign and domestic passengers.
Yes they denounce America, they denounce their hegemony, imperialism, greed, selfish attitude, many atrocities and interference.
Yes they denounce America, they denounce what they have done to our nation through coup d'état in the past, support of a reppressive and useless regime of the Shah. Their support for
Saddam. Their support for the zionist entity. Their hegemony over the middle east. Their theft of over 20 billion USD of our foreign reserves after the revoloution.....but
There is no doubt in what you say.  America has interfered in Iran’s internal affairs and acted against Iran’s interest and in line with its own interests.  This is the law of jungle.  The strong will dominate the weak.  You can either dwell in the past for ever or forge a better future for yourself.  I will submit to you that what Russia has done to Iran over several hundred years is by far worst than what the Americans have done.  As the matter of fact, had it not been for the Americans giving military assistance and weapons to Iran during shah’s time, the Soviet Union would have done to Iran what they did to Afghanistan.  I am sure you know the story behind how the American supplied F-14’s put an end to Soviet’s harassment of Iran’s airspace.  At the end of the day no matter how horrible America’s treatment towards Iran was, it was no worse than nuclear attacks on Japan or complete destruction of Germany during WWII.  Just look at how the European’s were at each other’s throats over 60 years ago.  Where are they today?  You can hold a grudge for ever, or sit down, negotiate, and move on with your life.
So have you heard Iran denounce technology and progress (specifically western technology or scientific knowledge)?? so where is the hypocrisy? Just because you denounce someone's evil
ways, you must go back to the stone ages or be called a hypocrite?
Well you made the point for me here.  If Iran denounces America, it has to denounce everything American. As I understand, Iran is the biggest market for smuggled American cigarettes, computer chips and components, hp printers and dell servers, etc.  If you go to Friday prayers and chant death to America while you pay money to American companies for your Levi genes, Marlboro cigarettes, hp printer, and aircraft parts bought indirectly from America, you are a hypocrite.  The Cuban citizen who does not use such products and is a socialist / communist and anti American is less of a hypocrite in this matter.
the sanctions on Iran's civil aviation is meant to hurt who ? the government?? or the people?? is this not humanitarian grounds?
In every country, the government is made of a group of people.  As the matter of fact, the government is made of an elite group of people.  Sanctions affect people and the government alike.  When people are sanctioned, they know their government has to change its ways so they could have a better life.  The people can struggle and vote for a change.  If their vote does not change anything, they come out and protest on the streets.  All of this forces the government to realize that if they want to stay in power and conduct their business as usual, they need to listen what their people need.  So when the public opinion says: we Iranians want and deserve new modern aircraft and we are sick and tired to see our children burn alive in these old aircraft, then maybe someone in the government may listen.
On the other hand, aircraft are also used to bloster a country’s economy.  With a new fleet of Being 777 Ahmadinejad could shuttle his businessmen (not-stop) between Tehran and Caracas as well as other far away destinations around the clock.  This could potentially generate hundreds of millions of dollars for Iran’s economy either directly or indirectly.  In absence of these aircraft, most travelers use European and other middle eastern airliners and pour hundreds of millions of Iranian dollars in their pockets!  Even most of Iranian pilgrims to Arabia are sent there using Saudi airliner! This is what sanctions are designed to do.  To limit Iran’s income and increase its cost of living.
You sound like a conceited and egotistic American.
I am trying to have a factual conversation with you on the topic.  You are not the first one who has resorted to name calling on this forum when they fall short of logic and reasoning.  If I wanted to call you similar names I had  over a dozen names to chose from.  This is the last time you call me a name on this forum if you want to continue to have a conversation with me.







Offline Shirazi

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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2009, 12:58:05 PM »
+1
What do you think is the purpose of "marg bar amrika" chants and slogans?

I was hoping you'd tell me.

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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 02:23:33 PM »
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I was hoping you'd tell me.

If you dont understand it, you'll never understand it.


MARG BAR AMERI'KKK'A!

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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 02:38:31 PM »
+1
If you dont understand it, you'll never understand it.


MARG BAR AMERI'KKK'A!

Well why don't you explain it to me.l

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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2010, 11:45:18 PM »
+1
it means down with usa
Iran Khodro largest auto maker in larger middle east

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWwHIPoQdw8&list=UUMF4vfECnuAPAfW0s6lMpyg&index=1&feature=plcp

<a href="http://www.quickiqtest.net" title="IQ Test"><img src="http://www.quickiqtest.net/graphic/badges/sf114.gif" width="150" height="75" alt="IQ Test" border="0"></a><br>QuickIQTest.net - <a title="Quick IQ Test" href="http://www.quickiqtest.net">IQ Test</a>

this is the fixed video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn-T-5k0_4E&list=UUMF4vfECnuAPAfW0s6lMpyg&index=1

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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 02:42:42 AM »
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1)[Topic: Iran Civil Aviation News]
2)CIA aviation already has plastic Globemaster (plastic cargo plane).
3)Turbojet might be switched to Turboprop due to jungle bird hitting turbines.

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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 04:05:17 PM »
+1
Quote
If you dont understand it, you'll never understand it.


MARG BAR AMERI'KKK'A!

I think we have to unite with opposition in USA against Zionism and use the slogan MARG BAR SAIHONISM (Down with Zionism) Instead.

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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2010, 04:09:13 PM »
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I think we have to unite with opposition in USA against Zionism and use the slogan MARG BAR SAIHONISM (Down with Zionism) Instead.

Sounds like a plan.

 But in iran they say 'marg bar america, marg bar engilis (and then very loudly) MARG BAR ISRAEL' .
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 08:04:45 PM by YMJ »

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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 04:39:27 PM »
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It's "Engliss" in Persian YMJ :sarc:

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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2010, 08:05:05 PM »
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It's "Engliss" in Persian YMJ :sarc:

You mean 'Farsi' ...

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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2010, 08:44:23 PM »
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You mean 'Farsi' ...

There is no such word in the English language.

Offline Pasdar

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« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2010, 11:27:21 AM »
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There is no such word in the English language.


Far·si   [fahr-see]  Show IPA
–noun
the modern Iranian language of Iran and western Afghanistan, written in the Arabic alphabet; modern Persian.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/farsi

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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2010, 11:42:53 AM »
0
Far·si   [fahr-see]  Show IPA
–noun
the modern Iranian language of Iran and western Afghanistan, written in the Arabic alphabet; modern Persian.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/farsi


Well reference.com does not have a say in which words are in the English language and which words aren't. The Oxford dictionary has more authority in this area and in their dictionaries they do not use that word. It is like calling Spanish "Espanol" , here is Iran's Academy of the Persian Language and Literature's (Farhangestān-e Zabān va Adab-e Fārsī) take on it:

Quote
"PERSIAN has been used in a variety of publications including cultural, scientific and diplomatic documents for centuries and, therefore, it connotes a very significant historical and cultural meaning. Hence, changing 'Persian' to 'Farsi' is to negate this established important precedence. Changing 'Persian' to 'Farsi' may give the impression that it is a new language, and this may well be the intention of some Farsi users"
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 11:50:54 AM by Shirazi »

Offline carrycorrie

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Iran Civil Aviation News
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2010, 09:32:59 AM »
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"Negotiation is a road to compromise.  That means there is "give" and "take" involved with any kind of negotiation. "

Yes, there should be a give and take do that the problem will be easily sold.

 

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