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The name of SAM (Launcher Vehicle and Radar) that fires Shalamche Missile is still unknown.

While Mersad is the name of SAM that fires Shahin Missile.


ok thanks you 100% right .

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The name of SAM (Launcher Vehicle and Radar) that fires Shalamche Missile is still unknown.

While Mersad is the name of SAM that fires Shahin Missile.

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Below is the information about Mersad SAM from www.wikipedia.org site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersad

"Mersad (Persian: Ambush) is an Iranian advanced low to mid range Air defense system developed in 2010. It fires Shahin (Falcon) missiles which are reverse engineered, domestically upgraded versions of the American MIM-23 Hawk Surface-to-air missiles."

"The Shahin missile is an improved reverse engineered version of US made MIM-23 Hawk Surface to air missile sold to Iran before the 1979 revolution."

"In November 2010, Iranian air force colonel Faramarz Ruh Afza said that Mersad has a limited ability to intercept ballistic missiles."

"...further upgraded one called Shalamche. Iranian Defense minister Ahmad Vahidi stated that the speed is now about mach 3 with an increase of about mach 0.6. He called the missile state of art because of its new electronics which made it highly resistance to Electronic warfare. He said that the range of this missile is about 40 km and it is going to be increased."

"Variants.

Mersad: Basic variant. Uses the first generation of Shahin missiles.

Mersad Phase I: Second variant. Tested on October 2010, this variant has a higher range and altitude. It is also capable of engaging more targets simultaneously.

Mersad Phase II: Third variant. This variant is currently under development. It will have double the range and altitude as compared to the basic Mersad.

Unknown Designation: Uses Shalamche missiles instead of Shahin."




Unknown Designation: Uses Shalamche missiles instead of Shahin.  ========  ??   ??

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Below is the information about Mersad SAM from www.wikipedia.org site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersad

"Mersad (Persian: Ambush) is an Iranian advanced low to mid range Air defense system developed in 2010. It fires Shahin (Falcon) missiles which are reverse engineered, domestically upgraded versions of the American MIM-23 Hawk Surface-to-air missiles."

"The Shahin missile is an improved reverse engineered version of US made MIM-23 Hawk Surface to air missile sold to Iran before the 1979 revolution."

"In November 2010, Iranian air force colonel Faramarz Ruh Afza said that Mersad has a limited ability to intercept ballistic missiles."

"...further upgraded one called Shalamche. Iranian Defense minister Ahmad Vahidi stated that the speed is now about mach 3 with an increase of about mach 0.6. He called the missile state of art because of its new electronics which made it highly resistance to Electronic warfare. He said that the range of this missile is about 40 km and it is going to be increased."

Numbers: 40 km range is similar to I-Hawk/MIM-23B Missile. Is Shalamche a copy of I-HAWK?

"Variants.

Mersad: Basic variant. Uses the first generation of Shahin missiles.

Mersad Phase I: Second variant. Tested on October 2010, this variant has a higher range and altitude. It is also capable of engaging more targets simultaneously.

Mersad Phase II: Third variant. This variant is currently under development. It will have double the range and altitude as compared to the basic Mersad.

Unknown Designation: Uses Shalamche missiles instead of Shahin."
Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 08:56:46 AM by Numbers

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The Mersad is the whole AD system, though. Shahin and Shalamche are two different missiles (SAMs), which are part of the Mersad and Mersad 2 air defense systems, respectively. Am I right?
EDIT: Sorry, I removed the quotes because you were in the process of updating your post as I quoted you.

 it done now
no need to say sorry . i hope that good enough .



Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 02:46:46 PM by yavar

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The Mersad is the whole AD system, though. Shahin and Shalamche are two different missiles (SAMs), which are part of the Mersad and Mersad 2 air defense systems, respectively. Am I right?

wait i am  making my post please wait .
EDIT: Sorry, I removed the quotes because you were in the process of updating your post as I quoted you.
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Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 01:48:33 PM by JF

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yavar

I'm not questioning your knowledge, but can you explain to us what you mean by "Mersad 2 missile"? Isn't the Mersad the name of the whole AD system (radars + missiles)?  I'm aware of the fact that Shalamche looks very different internally compared to the MIM-23A/B (which Iran bought during the Shah era). Shalamche uses a phased array antenna whereas the MIM-23A/B uses a dish antenna. But, I don't know about the Shahin missile because I've never seen the inside view of it. If you know how it looks internally, I'd really appreciate it if you could post a photo of it.





can you explain to us what you mean by "Mersad 2 missile"? Isn't the Mersad the name of the whole AD system (radars + missiles)? ============= Mersad 2 air defense  is improved version of Mersad one air defense missile .Mersad 2 missile  is been improved on speed & Rocket motor & fuel & maneuverability .the radar got different name  and missile  it can be used with different radar ( Poya or  ALim or  Kashef or ............  )   and the missile can be connected to Iran National air defense


the Mersad 2 missile was show for second time on National Army Day . you see it been reported flow the link below . but picture is wrong used by  press TV

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/04/18/298940/iran-unveils-new-uav-missiles/



Shalamcheh is  just the head for  the missile   . Shalamch is Radar + Seeker +  multiple target destroying mechanism _ the computer in the missile   + the control system .




you can add Shalamcheh head  to different missile like  ( Merdad one or two or Shahin or Ghader or .....) to be come complete missile system with propellent

so the new gen of Shalamcheh  been add to Mersad 2 propellent . to make it complete system  . so the new Gen Shalamcheh got better and faster performance





Shalamcheh missile has multiple target tracking and  multiple target destroying capability using same missile  with one missile can attack 3 target and destroy them the missile ( Shalamcheh ) it can defend it self against  coming missile which been fired from enemy plane or rocket or anything ales .



the Shahin  missile  if you look here  is  totally different in  fuel & rocket motor & radar  to HAWK  or Mersad missile.

Shahin missile it's designed to hit low altitude object like a cruise missile and drone .

if you look at this video you will see the Shahin missile does not go up to sky it just go forward and hit low fly warhead .

the Shahin missile always stays low  and it does not go to high altitude . it stays in low altitude like cruise missile and it it operate like cruise missile.  the computer on board of missile design  to keep the missile low  in same cruise missile




The Mersad is the whole AD system, though. Shahin and Shalamche are two different missiles (SAMs), which are part of the Mersad and Mersad 2 air defense systems, respectively. Am I right? =========== yes some times . some time when they use Shahin missile and Mersad missile the call the system Mersad  but usually the whole system  been called by name of the missile which is b been deployed in the system so if  Shahin missile is deployed then the called Shain system  or if the Mersad  missile is deployed they call it Mersad .

it like S300 system  which got different  missile in it  . the system called Mersad if there is only Mersad missile in . they call it Mersad if  there is Shahin and Mersad in it .   but usually ( some time ) if there is only Shahin missile been used in system  they call it it Shahin system . it bit confusing


Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 02:56:44 PM by yavar

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yavar

I'm not questioning your knowledge, but can you explain to us what you mean by "Mersad 2 missile"? Isn't the Mersad the name of the whole AD system (radars + missiles)?  I'm aware of the fact that Shalamche looks very different internally compared to the MIM-23A/B (which Iran bought during the Shah era). Shalamche uses a phased array antenna whereas the MIM-23A/B uses a dish antenna. But, I don't know about the Shahin missile because I've never seen the inside view of it. If you know how it looks internally, I'd really appreciate it if you could post a photo of it.
Good to know:
Many of the items I post here are done for the sole purpose of sharing, what I perceive as, informative & insightful views, to encourage debate based on the topic at hand without resorting to childish insults, off-topic nonsense & plain trolling. It's not up to me to agree or disagree with the author's points. That's up to the reader to do. Anything I post here will be focused primarily on military, geostrategy & technical matters. If you want to respond to a forum post of mine, stay on topic per forum rules. If you think something is wrong with my posts, please PM me. For off-topic discussions (if it's serious), I welcome PMs. Let's keep Iran Military Forum (IMF) clean & professional. God bless!

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Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 12:33:00 PM by JF

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What I think he was trying to ask if this Shahin(Iranian version of MIM-23 Hawk)SAM has anti-ballistic missile capabilities, like the American MIM-104 Patriot and Soviet/Russian S-300 series.

first as i said before the the Shalamcheh missile  is NOT like  US  HAWK missile or  is NOT Iranian version of MIM-23 Hawk. from inside  .


second American MIM-104 Patriot has NOT got any anti-ballistic missile capabilities what so ever . is just normal long range missile sold missile . ( but the system has not hit shit  in it intair history it does not work just show pics )



the Shalamcheh missile head has multiple target and attacking and  multiple target destroying capability with one missile on Mersad 2  missile .
Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 01:23:19 PM by yavar

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?? ??

What I think he was trying to ask if this Shahin(Iranian version of MIM-23 Hawk)SAM has anti-ballistic missile capabilities, like the American MIM-104 Patriot and Soviet/Russian S-300 series.
Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 09:37:06 AM by Rick

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Dow the Sharon have ABM capability?



?? ??

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Dow the Sharon have ABM capability?
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Too  Catsoo 

please change the change the title this threat to only Shahin missile  not any thing ales

HAWK [Shahin] SAM  =====  Shahin air defense missile is totally different from inside to HAWK  or Mersad missile

Shahin: Iran's new ground-to-air guided missile  if you look here  is  totally different fuel rocket motor & radar  to HAWK  or Mersad missile.

Shahin missile it's designed to hit low altitude object like a cruise missile and drone .

if you look at this video you will see the Shahin missile does not go up to sky it just go forward and hit low fly warhead .


Shahin: Iran's new ground-to-air guided missile


now look at  Mersad missile  . when it fired  it goes up to sky  and try to hit Plane or any medium range flying objects.
look at fuel to Shahin missile   and Mersad missile  and HAWK and Shalamcheh missile  each one got different rocket motor  and fuel & radar.


Iran unveiled "Mersad" anti aerial missile system



Shalamcheh head of missile is different to all others  it can do multiple targeting and it can hit 3 target and  Shalamcheh missile it bit longer than others.Shalamcheh head can be fire by Mersad  missile or Shahin missile  rocket motor .


Ministry of defense deliver anti air Shalamcheh missile to air defense headquarter
Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 09:26:32 PM by yavar

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Shahin missiles

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how many shahin sytems (3 missles) are operational
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A question, what are the radars used in mersad system? Are they the same as MIM-23 HAWK's radars?

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I haven't read through to see what it actually says, i just saw "IIR" under the entry. So i'll reserve judgment until i am able to.

But you do bring up a good point that i've actually been considering as i've read this magazine. The point is, how much weight do we actually give government/military sources? I've always given them the benefit of the doubt because, they're official sources so one presumes them to be correct, but that might not be the guess. At any rate though, it's better then Global Security's numbers.

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Ayyash,

Which makes me wonder the credibility of the source since we have plenty of images of the Fateh-110's nose section and there is no way it uses an IR seeker since it would need a smooth glossy cover just as a EO seeker would require.
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The specifications are definitly closer to the Shahin rocket then the Shahin SAM despite it being posted in conjunction with a picture of the SAM.

The thing is that it doesn't match the specifications for either variant of the Shahin rocket though either.

It's part of a whole article on BMs that includes what looks to be valuable information on the the Nazeat, Zelzal, and Shahab series, i'm pretty sure it even mentions the Fateh-110 having an imaging infrared seeker.

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Ayyash,

Those Range figures seem a bit off..

The Basic HAWK (MIM-23A) had a range of 25km while the I-HAWK missile (MIM-23B) has a range of 40km. By the time of the revolution as far as I know all HAWK systems were upgraded to the I-Hawk standard including the missiles so its a bit puzzling Iran's Shahin-1/2 are so far off compared to the HAWK models Iran has in inventory.

EDIT- Just thought of something, What if these figures belong the Shahin-1/2 artillery rockets?
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I was checking out the latest issue of the Military's "Saff" magazine and it had a feature on Iranian missiles, and within it was a section about the Shahin.

It mentioned two different variants, the Shahin-1, and the Shahin-2, it even included specifications on the two.

Shahin-1:
Weight: 384 kg
Max. Range: 13 km
Warhead: 190 kg, HE
Max. Velocity: 450 m/s

Shahin-2:
Weight: 530 kg
Max. Range: 20 km
Warhead: 180 kg, HE-FRAG (not sure on the FRAG part, maybe it's a continuous-rod warhead?)
Max. Velocity: 660 m/s

HAWK: (Wikipedia)
Weight: 590 kg
Max. Range: 24 kg
Warhead: 54 kg HE-FRAG
Max. Velocity: 816 m/s

I'm more baffled at these numbers then the caps on the new Noor missile canisters. These numbers reflect such a steep departure from the HAWK missile when it comes to physical size that they can't possibly be right.

Here is the magazine with the section on the Shahin which can be found on P.17
http://aja.ir/portal/Home/ShowPage.aspx?Object=News&CategoryID=6b87bf91-59f2-4e18-8ff5-a829069a4482&WebPartID=c1d4b049-fa6d-4674-96e7-428abfed0167&ID=65e35b9e-6a3f-4917-8d58-b8c23be8e449

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Jet Vanes are possible of course since they are present in the various missiles used by the S-300 SAM system. However they use both jet vanes and traditional fins because neither is adequete in properly controlling such a missile so you can not delete the fins entirely. The decrease in drag would somewhat increase range but I doubt by very much.

When it comes to using a Phoniex missile rocket motor (Rocketdyne Mk 47) for a possible SAM motor..It is of course possible but such a missile will have not have the same range as the Phoniex simply because the amount of lift and thrust required to achieve the wanted speed when launched from the ground is much greater than when launched from the air on a F-14. Simple physics dictate this but there is another complication as well when talking specifically about the Phoniex.

The secret to the Phoniex missiles great range actually lies with its trajectory when launched from the air. It does not relay on its motor to achieve its great range, the phoniex missile is designed to climb quickly to roughly 80,000 feet and than dives towards the target using the extra kinetic energy from the dive to hit targets well beyond 100km. Such a trajectory is obviously not nearly as useful for a SAM since it would require much more fuel to achieve the same feat fired from the ground.

So, a SAM using the Phoniex missile's motor would likely not have nearly as great a range as the Phoniex itself. How great a range such a SAM could have is quite difficult to speculate because of the many factors involved. I am not saying that the Phoniex's motor would be a bad choice, simply dont expect that kind of range from a SAM using the same motor.
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Can the delta wings be replaced by Jet vanes? That's one way they could increase its range as it would create much less drag. With the jet vanes they could also put them in canisters and make them mobile.

Another way to increase the range would be to use the rocket motors used on the pheonix missiles (which has a range of 180km and is only slightly lighter than the hawk).
Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 03:27:30 AM by Shirazi

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