Author Topic: Raad-1/2 Artillery (Read 2855 times)

Ayyash · « **on:** March 23, 2010, 05:04:39 AM »

Raad 1 and Raad 2 SPG's

(and 1 M109 being tested along with it)

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2010, 06:12:27 AM »

There is a great deal of mystery surrounding the Ra'ad-2 howitzer for me and many on the net..The Main one being what engine it uses..Clearly it can't use the 330hp V8 engine used in the Boragh..There are reports on the net (who have no proof just claims) that its uses a Ukrainian engine.Personally, I have another theory..

When you study the Ra'ad-2 you'll notice its roadwheels are nearly identical to T-72 tanks...Which could hint to a Russian/Soviet powerplant..Another hint is thinking about weight..The M109 weighed roughly 28tons which means be able to travel at least 60km/h it would likely need an engine with at least 500hp..While its possible the Ra'ad-2 may weigh a bit more than the M109 but I doubt by very much. From other photos we can see that the side-mounted exhaust of the Ra'ad-2 is very similar to the exhausts of the T-72 tank..So it could be possible that is uses one of engines of the T-72 tanks (likely the 780hp original engine)...But there are a few problems I have with that...is the Hull of the Raad big enough for such an engine? We know the Safir-74 is supposed to use the V46 780hp engine (being bought from either Russia or Ukraine depending on your source) so is Iran importing additional engines for the Ra'ad-2 as well?

Ayyash · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2010, 06:29:09 AM »

I haven't looked at the sources in awhile, but are you sure they aren't referencing the Raad-1 which is based on the Boragh?

I have to go back and read what i wrote on it a awhile ago

Though i do agree the exhaust gives away the origin of the engine

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2010, 07:06:25 AM »

Early reports of the Ra'ad-2 claimed it used a modified boragh chasis though they look nothing alike to me thats why I mentioned it..The interesting thing about it possibly having a T-72 engine is that if it does weigh around 30 tons like I suspect that would give it an impressive Hp/ton ratio..but its pretty clear the hull is smaller than that of the T-72 so I'm a bit questionable bout the needed space but I'm not expert on the Russian engine in question (in terms of weight and dimensions)..

Ayyash · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2010, 07:30:59 AM »

Well, the mystery engine is the V-46-6 from the Safir-74. And just briefly looking at the dimensions, it looks like it should fit and matches the general outward appearances. The engine compartment is at least 3 m wide, 1.4 m long and about a meter deep which fits the engine perfectly. That's my bet at this point.

Ayyash · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:00:13 PM »

It's official, the Raad-2 uses the 840 hp V-84 - but then again, it also weighs an impressive 36 tons

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:11:09 PM »

Official according to whom?

Ayyash · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:20:13 PM »

the MoD

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:27:44 PM »

Great find Ayyash! Thanks..

The only thing that holds this design back is the lack of an autoloader but for Iran's needs it makes an excellent replacement of the M109..Its faster and can fire more long range ammunition. The next upgrade should be the replacement of the old 39 caliber cannon with a more modern and long range 45caliber cannon.

Ayyash · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:31:27 PM »

You should check out the Modlex website where it came from, though for the life of me, i can't find it again. I took some screenshots though because i knew i would be unable to find it again, or in case the sight went down.

The site is a goldmine, it's got good information on a large range of products including stuff i hadn't even heard of before.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:33:31 PM »

I take that back..the original M109 had a 8 man crew and this only has a 5 man crew suggesting it does have an autoloader of some kinda..because the Russian 2S19 also has a 5 man crew and it does have an autoloader..So if the Ra'ad-2 does indeed have a true autoloader then other its "old school" barrel it is more advanced than I thought!

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:37:02 PM »

Wow you're right this is an incredible site! It's got the specs for systems we've looking for for ages lol..Thanks Ayyash!

THough I do have a question..on said site it shows a Ra'ad-2 and a Ra'ad-2M..in which they have the M variant as having a smaller 700hp engine...thoughts?

Shirazi · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2010, 10:57:48 PM »

This site is fantastic.

mamdali · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2010, 05:39:55 AM »

http://modlex.ir/

Incredible. Why haven't we seen this before? Odd.

Ayyash · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2010, 05:46:46 AM »

i haden't actually seen that link before, i was using another webstie - but just WOW, that is literally some of the best information i have EVER seen.

can anyone get the video's to work?

sadeghi85 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2010, 06:41:18 AM »

Quote from: Ayyash on April 05, 2010, 05:46:46 AM

can anyone get the video's to work?

AminCo · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2010, 01:21:47 PM »

nice site found

Aspahbod · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2010, 11:41:49 AM »

I don't understand. Why Iran is funding on barreled artillery systems while it can produce rocket artillery with less price? They have good upgrades of katyusha like Fajr 5 or Shaheen 2. And they are not funding much on armored vehicles nowadays. Are they repainting and showing their Raad 2 in parades each year?

Ayyash · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2010, 06:28:39 PM »

Quote from: Aspahbod on June 25, 2010, 11:41:49 AM

I don't understand. Why Iran is funding on barreled artillery systems while it can produce rocket artillery with less price? They have good upgrades of katyusha like Fajr 5 or Shaheen 2. And they are not funding much on armored vehicles nowadays. Are they repainting and showing their Raad 2 in parades each year?

Tube artillery are area saturation weapons, they don't have the accuracy or the ammunition load to provide sustainable pinpoint fire.

I'm not sure if they're repainting them, but at least some of them have been displayed in unit colors along with other armor from that unit, so i don't think they're just repainting them like with the Zulfiqar or something.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 26, 2010, 07:47:47 PM »

The conversation about whether Iran got its hands on Israeli M-71 howitzer designs just gave me a thought, and a question. Is the Ra'ad-2's cannon based on the M185 cannon (as Janes claims) or the HM41 howitzer? They are the same caliber and since the MAX range of the Ra'ad-2's cannon is the same as the HM41 I personally am leaning that way, but if it is based on the M185 cannon (used on later M109 variants), where did it come from because my sources say the M185 was only fitted on the M109 models A2/A3/A4 and from what I know I thought Iran only received M109A1's? Thoughts?

Lur · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2010, 08:32:46 PM »

so eagle if the raad 2 does use the HM41 how does it compare to the M109A1 cannon? realiability,power,etc?

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2010, 11:05:57 PM »

No we know the specs of the Ra'ad-2 and they are definitely superior to the M109A1 originally delivered to Iran in terms of Speed, rate of fire and range of fire.

Ayyash · « **Reply #22 on:** July 27, 2010, 12:31:06 AM »

The stat's from the 2 guns don't match up. The max range of the HM-41 is advertised as 30 km, while the HM-44 is advertised as having an 18.1 km range, same as the M109, the same as the M109. Also, visually, it's a lot more similar to the HM 44 then the HM 41.

Ayyash · « **Reply #23 on:** July 27, 2010, 02:20:22 AM »

One of the great things that continues to amaze me day after day about the type of open-source analysis we armchair generals do is the sheer power of it; How important the community just truly is.

For instance, i just saw this video posted on youtube, posted on another forum by someone else who was commenting on another section of the video, but the video in question actually also shows the Raad-2 in action during deployment in a wargame.

So now we have confirmation that the Raad-2 is actually deployed. Also, check out the rest of the video as well, it's got cool stuff in it like rifle-mounted RPG's, bridges, grenade launchers and some type of sniper rifle which i cant identify.


IRGC Quds Force القوات الخاصة للحرس الثوري

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 27, 2010, 02:26:42 AM »

Actually according to Jane's the Ra'ad-2 does have a maximum firing range 30km.