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Author Topic: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)  (Read 1522 times)

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Online Ayyash

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What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« on: January 21, 2012, 04:42:15 AM »
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This vehicle is located in the motor-pool of the division head-quarters of the 81st armored division in Kermanshah. In addition to M60s, M109s and BMP/BTRs, there are also smaller AFVs that are dimensionally slightly larger then an M113, but with roughly the same proportions.

- Length: ~5.5 m, Width: ~3 m
- Circular feature on the roof/deck that would normally call to mind a turret.
- It's about a meter short of being a ZSU-23-4.

Any thoughts on what it could be?
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Offline kyuss

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 09:37:31 AM »
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ZSU-57-2?
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Online Ayyash

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 10:08:05 AM »
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Good suggestion! Thanks.
It's still a bit short, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility since the difference isn't that large (~.7 m)
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Online M-ATF

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 05:30:44 PM »
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its a question to me, Why while Iran is working and producing 100 mm Sa'ir, 35 mm Samavat, and 23 mm Mesbah-1, But dont upgrade these ZSU-57-2's or ZSU-23-4's with modern radar and electro-optical, laser tracking systems and new modern fire control system.

Maybe one of reasons is that they are very old. I think they are around 40 years old. but it seems they are still using them.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 06:45:27 PM by M-ATF »
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Online Ich

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 05:47:02 PM »
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Maybe 240/280 rounds per minute is to slow for modern war.
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Offline WUDANGMASTER

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 11:40:16 PM »
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Maybe they are used for training and getting people accustomed to handling the machinery, then they graduate to the better systems actually fielded?
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Online Ayyash

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2012, 04:43:06 AM »
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Quote from: M-ATF on January 21, 2012, 05:30:44 PM
its a question to me, Why while Iran is working and producing 100 mm Sa'ir, 35 mm Samavat, and 23 mm Mesbah-1, But dont upgrade these ZSU-57-2's or ZSU-23-4's with modern radar and electro-optical, laser tracking systems and new modern fire control system.

Maybe one of reasons is that they are very old. I think they are around 40 years old. but it seems they are still using them.
I think the answer to your first question lies in doctrine. Because Iran is such geographically large area, their forces have tended to gravitate towards 'islands' of protection centered around key sites. This of course overlaps with the general distrust of maneuver warfare. That is, Iran doesn't need fast, highly-responsive gun/missile platforms if they're not required to keep up with armored battalions and defeat attack helicopters. MANPADSs would represent an attempt to provide organic air defense to units without the bells and whistles that would be required in genuine maneuver warfare.

I think you're right though. Producing Mesbahs and Samavats is not that far away from producing a modern SPAAG. The thing about the Zu-57-2 however is that they're completely obsolete in almost every way. The large-caliber guns have fallen out of favor for AAA use because of their ROF and large size (weight); they were also manually controlled and sighted. The turret itself was quite literally just a raised steel wall surrounding the gun. I wonder if it wouldn't be easier just to put a 23 mm or 35 mm gun on the hull with a condensed version of their associated fire control mechanism and surrounded with a rudimentary turret. In the grand scheme of things it wouldn't cost all that much more then a towed version (or at least I should say, I can't think of any reason it should cost dramatically more) and be largely equivleent to what would be required to modernize the Zu-25-2 in the first place.

Of course, it's worth mentioning that many of the recent SPAAGs have been built on automotive platforms rather then armored ones because they're far cheaper. Everyone can see that this shift would appeal to Iran since they are big advocates for substituting motorization for mechanization. We still return to the same fundamental question though which is; why hasn't Iran fielded a mobile version of the Samavat or Mesbah?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 04:47:09 AM by Ayyash »
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Offline Aspahbod

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2012, 02:34:40 PM »
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Quote from: Ayyash on January 22, 2012, 04:43:06 AM
I think the answer to your first question lies in doctrine. Because Iran is such geographically large area, their forces have tended to gravitate towards 'islands' of protection centered around key sites. This of course overlaps with the general distrust of maneuver warfare. That is, Iran doesn't need fast, highly-responsive gun/missile platforms if they're not required to keep up with armored battalions and defeat attack helicopters. MANPADSs would represent an attempt to provide organic air defense to units without the bells and whistles that would be required in genuine maneuver warfare.

I think you're right though. Producing Mesbahs and Samavats is not that far away from producing a modern SPAAG. The thing about the Zu-57-2 however is that they're completely obsolete in almost every way. The large-caliber guns have fallen out of favor for AAA use because of their ROF and large size (weight); they were also manually controlled and sighted. The turret itself was quite literally just a raised steel wall surrounding the gun. I wonder if it wouldn't be easier just to put a 23 mm or 35 mm gun on the hull with a condensed version of their associated fire control mechanism and surrounded with a rudimentary turret. In the grand scheme of things it wouldn't cost all that much more then a towed version (or at least I should say, I can't think of any reason it should cost dramatically more) and be largely equivleent to what would be required to modernize the Zu-25-2 in the first place.

Of course, it's worth mentioning that many of the recent SPAAGs have been built on automotive platforms rather then armored ones because they're far cheaper. Everyone can see that this shift would appeal to Iran since they are big advocates for substituting motorization for mechanization. We still return to the same fundamental question though which is; why hasn't Iran fielded a mobile version of the Samavat or Mesbah?

I don't recall when but I remember one of the IRGC commanders saying in an interview that they are working on "short range air defense vehicle". It was on Iranian TV. Maybe it is the self propelled Samavat or Mesbah.
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Online comandantecarlos

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2012, 06:10:18 PM »
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I say, these vehicles would be a shame to waste. After a modernization of the original system ground targets, robot aircraft which could be applied successfully. The modernization and would not cost much.
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Offline mustavaris

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 05:51:25 PM »
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Finland operates 23mm systems and once had ZSU-57-2s too. Those systems have their useful life times.. You can put only that number of rounds through the barrel before it has to be replaced, rest of the gun gets old too. The ZSU-57-2 is also very old school vehicle as a whole.. not much more than WWII-era. If Iran concentrates on limited number of systems that it can manufacture on her own, that is better in the long run. Getting rid off usable systems is not smart but once they are old and you can make your own... maintaining them ain´t too wise.

Those 100mm pieces are odd though. Maybe they do not count on their short range missiles..

Quote from: M-ATF on January 21, 2012, 05:30:44 PM
its a question to me, Why while Iran is working and producing 100 mm Sa'ir, 35 mm Samavat, and 23 mm Mesbah-1, But dont upgrade these ZSU-57-2's or ZSU-23-4's with modern radar and electro-optical, laser tracking systems and new modern fire control system.

Maybe one of reasons is that they are very old. I think they are around 40 years old. but it seems they are still using them.
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Offline Simple Bubba

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 06:10:52 AM »
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Quote from: Ayyash on January 21, 2012, 04:42:15 AM
This vehicle is located in the motor-pool of the division head-quarters of the 81st armored division in Kermanshah. In addition to M60s, M109s and BMP/BTRs, there are also smaller AFVs that are dimensionally slightly larger then an M113, but with roughly the same proportions.

- Length: ~5.5 m, Width: ~3 m
- Circular feature on the roof/deck that would normally call to mind a turret.
- It's about a meter short of being a ZSU-23-4.

Any thoughts on what it could be?


not an expert...   but ZSU-57-2 is probable (BUT  I dont see shadow of twin barrls from turret)
... also look at TRV's or ARV's  (tank/armored recovery vehicles) USA might have sold Iran M32 or M74's (have to do research, but most likely did...) ...   the M32 fits within your measurements...   

not saying it is a M32.... just throwing another option out there...   Engr and Air Defense  could both be located near Hq area of base...

can you post lat/long... so I can take a closer look...  thx
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 06:14:17 AM by Simple Bubba »
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Offline Numbers

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Re: What is this armored vehicle (Google Earth)
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 04:37:53 AM »
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Quote from: Ayyash on January 22, 2012, 04:43:06 AM
Everyone can see that this shift would appeal to Iran since they are big advocates for substituting motorization for mechanization. We still return to the same fundamental question though which is; why hasn't Iran fielded a mobile version of the Samavat or Mesbah?

Iran has shown some motorised ZU-23-2. Except I do not know what kind of Guidence they got. Probably still Manually guided.

Putting Mesbah-1 on motorised chassis is priority for Iran. Mesbah-1 has Infrared and Radar Guidence.
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