Iran Military Forum

western PR news services are on it:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Saansafir

look, u dont have to listen far, the fact they call "Jundullah" a "Sunni Muslim group" or worse a "Sunni Resistance group" is evident where their government's agendas fall.

I don’t believe I said that, Qassam. I was commenting that I hoped Catsoo’s predictions of more bloodshed were wrong.
ok

Oh, you mean Iran-Contra? Where Iran bought US weapons so the money could go to the anti-Communist guerrillas in Nicaragua could defeat the imposed dictatorship? That Nicaragua?

To be honest I do not know anything about that. I got class in a bit but when I get back I'll look into it.

As I recall, the US shut down the School of the Americas. Perhaps Iran should emulate that decision and shut down the camps where it provides training to Hezbullah and Hamas terrorists.

Difference....You are on OUR land killing OUR people. They are not terrorists more like freedom fighters.You call them terrorists for defending themselves from the occupation and Israeli murderers. Last I heard they just changed the name.

Not a problem, Qassam.
ok
Yes, there are many countries in which terrorists are being trained, including Sudan and Somalia.
Yeah and those terrorists are U.S. forces and their pawns.

Since, Gentlemen, both of your replies were of the same kind, I’ll address them as one.

Difference....You are on OUR land killing OUR people.

No, Qassam, I am not.

 They are not terrorists more like freedom fighters.

That, is decidedly disingenuous. They may well see themselves as freedom fighters and you may see them as that as well. There is, however, irrefutable evidence of their terrorist activities. If you commit terrorism, regardless of your good intentions, you are still a terrorist. After all, isn’t that what you accuse America of being? The hypocrisy of your decrying one set of terrorists while praising another reeks.

You call them terrorists for defending themselves from the occupation and Israeli murderers. Last I heard they just changed the name.

No, they are not terrorists for defending themselves against Israeli occupation. They are terrorists because of the manner in which they do so. Launching unguided missiles at civilian targets is a terrorist act, regardless of who does it or why they do so.

Apples and Oranges our Zionist wana-be member. Apples and Oranges.

LOL.  So you say, Izi, so you say.

The equivalent of what you are saying is if Iran goes to help Mexico to cross the border and attack the US.

If the US were training terrorists in a neighboring country to commit acts of terrorism in Iran, you would be right. So far, however, I have seen no proof that is occuring, despite some assertions that it is.

What Iran is doing in helping the Hezbollah (which are not a Terrorist Organization by any definition you may give to Terrorism) which is fighting to kick out an occupied force from its own country, but if Iran had invaded Pakistan and the US was helping the locals to kick Iran out of Pakistan then and only then you would have a point.

Really, Izi? What part of Lebanon is currently occupied by Israel? You see, Izi, you have a tendency to play a little fast and loose with the facts when it suits you. Israel is not occupying Lebanon but Hezbollah continues acts of terrorism across the Israeli border. That is a fact.

Additionally you should know that the US has a history of bad judgment by supporting the wrong groups where it has always kick the US back in the long run. Supporting the Taliban, Al Quida, Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia…… This is not going to end any better or any different. These Terrorist which the US an the UK are supporting will turn on the them in a few years and then dump asses will cry why do they hate us.

The US has a history of being very naive about realpolitik in foreign relations, there’s no question about that. Americans are, at their core, idealists. It’s also true that there are hand wringers who fret about why they hate us. I, frankly, am not one of them. I couldn’t care less why they hate us. The fact that they do and drawing from that hate are willing to kill in the old, the young and the innocent to make their point is enough for me. Make enemies at your peril.

Innalillahi wa innailaihi rajiun.

I mean exactly like that, Qassam. You see you are so quick to decry those activities but absolutely refuse recognize equally horrible conduct by Hezbullah and Hamas. Why do you think that is?

Till Hamas and Hezbollah invade and occupy Israeli land then you can come talk. The only thing Hamas and Hezbollah is guilty of is refusing to not resist to Israeli terror.


With respect, Qassam, that’s simply bovine excrement. Both Hamas and Hezbollah regularly rocket and mortar Israeli towns, full of civilians and in complete disregard or the rules of war. Is there a reason you only want them to apply to Israeli conduct and not those with whom you sympathize?

hmmm lets see here I think you forgot to mention that those towns that were hit WERE Palestinian towns NOT Israeli.I did not see anyone say anything about Sderot(or other towns) until it was sucked up by Israeli Zionist thieves. Those rockets are unguided and are a sign of resistance. Israel on the other hand DIRECTLY targets civilians knowing full well what they are doing.

EDIT: MP1 why do the Palestinians have to pay for the holocaust that the West committed? Why do the Jews have the right to go on land they have NEVER been on occupy it and build their own country? Was it the Palestinians that committed the holocaust? What gives fleeing Jews the right to force Palestinians out of their homes, demolish their homes, etc. or face death? What gives the Jews who fled to Palestine during WW2 the right to claim Palestinian land and force them out?

What are you going to do.... bring the British Mandate BS? Is that how you live with yourself to approve this atrocity? Is that what makes you think it makes it all better?

Can I go in your home claim god has given it to me and force you out? If so when can I go?

With respect, Qassam, that’s simply bovine excrement. Both Hamas and Hezbollah regularly rocket and mortar Israeli towns, full of civilians and in complete disregard or the rules of war. Is there a reason you only want them to apply to Israeli conduct and not those with whom you sympathize?

I wonder what this Bozo's excuse would be if these rockets did not produce anymore than a handfull of casualties on the Israeli side? he would probably point to Palestinian kids throwing rocks then!

I am getting sick of his bellow waist reasonings. Why do we have to bear garbage individuals like this well written, totally racist coward and sick individual here? I suggest to charge this as..ole for every word we allow him to type here. That would be the least this forum can benefit from his appearance here. There is nothing more that he adds to our forum!!!!!!

catsoo

Again, as all these responses have the same tenor, I’ll respond to them as a group.

Qassam

Till Hamas and Hezbollah invade and occupy Israeli land then you can come talk. The only thing Hamas and Hezbollah is guilty of is refusing to not resist to Israeli terror.

Let me make sure I understand you point, Qassam: Unless Hamas and Hezbollah invade somewhere, they are free to commit any war crime they please? Is that really your position? That they are free to target civilians, sponsor and commit attacks on shopping malls, falafel shops and the like all they please but with impunity? Really, Qassam, doesn’t that make them the same bloodthirsty war criminals as those Zionists you decrey?


hmmm lets see here I think you forgot to mention that those towns that were hit WERE Palestinian towns NOT Israeli.

Not Israeli? Oh, I see, you are one of those that believe Israel can and should be destroyed no matter how many Jews must die, right? Qassam, whether you like it or not, they are Israeli towns, filled with Israeli civilians. If you believe that it is OK to target civilians because they are Israelis, just be man enough to say so. That, of course, though will highlight your hypocrisy because you condemn the Israelis for killing civilians, why can’t you be morally consistent and condemn targeting of civilians no matter who does it or what their goal?

I did not see anyone say anything about Sderot(or other towns) until it was sucked up by Israeli Zionist thieves.

That’s because they weren’t being attacked.

Those rockets are unguided and are a sign of resistance. Israel on the other hand DIRECTLY targets civilians knowing full well what they are doing.

So, you admit it then. It is OK for one side to murder but not the other. Really, Qassam, what an immoral position, justifying the murder of innocents simply because you agree with why they were murdered.


EDIT: MP1 why do the Palestinians have to pay for the holocaust that the West committed? 

Not the West, Qassam, a particular nation in the West. Israel was the home of the Jews and they were simply exercising their own “right of return.” I thought you advocated that right. Didn’t you?

Why do the Jews have the right to go on land they have NEVER been on occupy it and build their own country?

Are you seriously suggesting that the Jews have NEVER been in Jerusalem? I guess Solomon and David and Herod were what, Tasmanian?

Was it the Palestinians that committed the holocaust?

No, but the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, their titular leader, was certainly an accomplice.

What gives fleeing Jews the right to force Palestinians out of their homes, demolish their homes, etc. or face death?

Apparently the UN as it accepted the partition agreement and admitted Israel within the family of states.

What gives the Jews who fled to Palestine during WW2 the right to claim Palestinian land and force them out?

They didn’t. They bought land and settled. They dreamed of being free in their own land. The Arabs did everything they could to exterminate them and failed.

What are you going to do.... bring the British Mandate BS?

It is a historical fact. One might just as well lament the fall of Rome.

Is that how you live with yourself to approve this atrocity?

By “this atrocity,” I take it you mean Israel’s existence. If that is your meaning, then, yes.

 Is that what makes you think it makes it all better?

No, not all better. Far from it. Peace would make it better. Moral people on both sides decrying the murder of innocents regardless of the side would make it better. Ending the quest to destroy Israel would make it better.

Can I go in your home claim god has given it to me and force you out? If so when can I go?

Feel free to come. I will resist you, but I won’t try to kill your mother or your children.

Catsoo

I wonder what this Bozo's excuse would be if these rockets did not produce anymore than a handfull of casualties on the Israeli side? he would probably point to Palestinian kids throwing rocks then!

Maybe you can help me, Catsoo, because you continue to make this argument and I’ve never understood it.  Is an act moral if it kills a few but immoral if it kills many? Is that the basis upon which you decide what is right and wrong?  So the murder of one innocent is OK but the murder of a hundred is not? Tell me, Catsoo, how you justify intellectually, logically, and spiritually such a position.

I am getting sick of his bellow waist reasonings. Why do we have to bear garbage individuals like this well written, totally racist coward and sick individual here?

LOL. Sad, isn’t it that you can’t simply eliminate me because I refuse to accept your warped and perverted view of the world? Wouldn’t life be so much better if all who had the unmitigated gall to disagree could simply be eliminated? That no one could be allowed to question what passes for reason here with impunity? Ah, then you could start eliminating all everywhere who stand up to your petty bullying and life would be sweet wouldn’t it?

 I suggest to charge this as..ole for every word we allow him to type here.

We? I thought Izi was the owner. It is he who allows my presence even though he finds me loathsome as well. You see, Catsoo, he, unlike you, is a man of principle.

That would be the least this forum can benefit from his appearance here. There is nothing more that he adds to our forum!!!!!!

You mean other than a rational thought or two? Exposing the hypocrisy that you and those like you exercise, shedding crocodile tears if an innocent with whom you identify dies but praising God when an innocent you see as beneath you dies. You, Catsoo, are a bully and a would be tyrant, masking your tyranny with the cloak of Islam. Defile it, twisting it so that the murder of some is holy while the murder of others celebrated. Is that what Islam truly teaches, Catsoo? Does it truly mandate your immorality? Of course it does not. You do that on your own.

Moon

Mp1 is like a broken record,he is stuck in his way of thinking.There is no point is reasoning with someone who doesnt use reason.He is who he is and believes what he believes.As Allah says '.....to you be your way and to me mine'.

Reason, Moon? Is that what you call mindless hatred? If that is what passes for reason here, I’m glad I’ve missed it.

First in the case of Lebanon and Hizbollah I would sure like to assure you that Hizbollah doesn't launch rockets on Israel on a regular basis.

It is not doing so now, no, Pregor. It did in 2006 and has boasted that it can do so again with missiles provided to it by Iran. Hamas, however, does launch both unguided missiles and mortars into Israel regularly, despite the so-called cease fire.

As for the missiles that were launched a while ago they were launched by a rouge sunni group that wants to destroy Israel among other things too.

Hamas is hardly a rogue group. They, despite being Sunni, are also supported by Iran.

this group is most likely to be followers of al qaeda and yes al qaeda and all of its followers are terrorists because the way they apply their wishes is terrorism but their cause is NOBLE, and so is that of Hizbollah.

Well, reasonable people can argue over the nobility over the goal of destroying Israel, but regardless of the goal, but the wholesale killing of or indifference to the killing of innocents is simply wrong, whether done by Israel, the US, Hamas, Hezbullah, Jundallah or anyone else is wrong.

well I meant about the rockets launched from Lebanon.

Now that is entirely likely.

well everyone in the world agreed and found out that israel had a previously made and approved plan by the USA to attack Hizbollah and it used the kidnapping of the 2 soldiers as an excuse, and even if israel didn't have a that plan the reaction was inproportional.

Not everyone in the world agreed. Pregor, but I understand your point. I’m curious though, I’ve had some military training but I don’t recall anything about proportional response. I’m not really sure what that means in a military context. It sounds more like a civilian policing concept to me. Based upon your scenario, what would have been an appropriate response by Israel to the rocketing and cross border incursions?

Does proportional response mean that if my enemy kills or captures 10 of my men, then there is some new law or more’ that I can only kill or capture 10 of his? Frankly, Pregor, this seem a tad silly to me. War is war and if one side hits the other then the other should be able to strike back with all it has, so long as such response is targeted at the enemy and not innocents.


well I would to tell you that what Hizbollah Hamas al qaeda, what they do is a reaction to what the israelis and americans have and still are doing.

Really? Is that justification for their actions no matter how vile? So, if any of those groups strike the US or Israel then the US and Israel are entitled to strike back in any manner they chose no matter how vile?

MP1 when you are at war yes civilians must not be targeted, but if one side targets civilians the other will do the same as well.

Well, at least we can agree that civilians should not be targeted. I might point out though, Pregor, that under your rule as stated here, every time US and Israeli civilians are targeted then they could respond in kind. I would prefer the rule that neither side could target civilians, but, if your rule prevails there should be no complaint from either side that its civilians are unjustly targeted.

Latest talk of response is of the IRGC sending a special forces "division" to deal with the group, possibly within Pakistan.

My guess, an heliborne/airborne unit like we saw practicing with the Mi-8's or Antanovs during the 2006 wargames. Hopefully with support from IRGC cobra's.

Aside from the public bluster, I believe most of the action against Rigi and friends has been covert.  I just think IRI has had trouble tracking this scumbag down---much like the other scumbag OBL has been tough tracking down.  It's simply difficult to find these folks although I believe the IRGC has a better chance of success than the 'Allies' have with tracking down OBL.  Additionally, and again ignoring the public bluster, chances are there is deep cooperation with Pakistan too.

On an aside, I'd love to be a fly on wall inside the operations room with the personnel tasked to find this guy.  I wonder what tools are being used and how they're going about doing it.

Latest talk of response is of the IRGC sending a special forces "division" to deal with the group, possibly within Pakistan.

My guess, an heliborne/airborne unit like we saw practicing with the Mi-8's or Antanovs during the 2006 wargames. Hopefully with support from IRGC cobra's.

well in my view I think that Iran should disarm jundullah because it is being funded by the USA and every foreign organization that the US funds will turn against it and then the US will invade that country.
Ex:Iraq (Saddam), Afghanistan (Taliban,al qaeda)