Author Topic: "Jundullah" Terrorist Gang (Read 11140 times)

MikePapa1 · « **Reply #50 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:13:24 PM »

well MP1 first of all my name is Pegor and not Pregor.
well

My apologies. I'll try to do better.

in this case I support Qassam.Let us ASSUME for a moment that God actually gave the jews the right of return do you think God is ok with the jews killing women and children just because "it is their land"??

I don’t presume to speak for God nor even understand his actions. I hope that God sanctions neither the murder of Muslims or Jews. Although, a theologian friend of mine has pointed out the Old Testament description of how the Jews came to possess the Holy Land through the wholesale slaughter of its then inhabitants. Joshua at Jericho is an example. I prefer to think of the God who sent Jesus as the Savior of mankind and established a New Covenant. Frankly, though I think neither of us are empowered to speak for God.

well everyone in the world agreed and found out that israel had a previously made and approved plan by the USA to attack Hizbollah and it used the kidnapping of the 2 soldiers as an excuse, and even if israel didn't have a that plan the reaction was inproportional.

well just to tell you before 2006 when Hizbollah kidnapped israeli soldires israel responded by artilery bombing and airstrikes for a few hours and that was it, but as I said because israel had a plan it launched a war that is an inproportional response.

That Pegor, is a great answer. Unfortunately, however, it did not answer my question. Care to try again?

well if you ask me it all the fault of the germans they started WW1 then WW2 which led to the creation of israel. well let me assume that you are a father and a stranger beat your son up(God forbid) your normal reaction would be to beat this stranger to death, the same is the case with Hizbollah, and you might even hurt his family. so yes Hizbollah has the right to respond but becareful Hizbollah responded during a war situation nad it had every right to kidnapp israeli soldiers because israel had Lebanese prisoners.

Hmmmm. Then by your reasoning warmongers in the US could justify many of their aggressions. Do you really want to set that as the precedent? Clearly, under your reasoning when Iran took US diplomats hostage, the US could have and should have responded with overwhelming force. Thank God, that it did not. Similarly, clearly, you support the US war in Afghanistan because it is in response to 9-11. Is that really what you mean to say?

Pegor · « **Reply #51 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:20:48 AM »

Quote from: MikePapa1 on October 22, 2009, 07:36:16 PM

well everyone in the world agreed and found out that israel had a previously made and approved plan by the USA to attack Hizbollah and it used the kidnapping of the 2 soldiers as an excuse, and even if israel didn't have a that plan the reaction was inproportional.

Not everyone in the world agreed. Pregor, but I understand your point. I’m curious though, I’ve had some military training but I don’t recall anything about proportional response. I’m not really sure what that means in a military context. It sounds more like a civilian policing concept to me. Based upon your scenario, what would have been an appropriate response by Israel to the rocketing and cross border incursions?

Does proportional response mean that if my enemy kills or captures 10 of my men, then there is some new law or more’ that I can only kill or capture 10 of his? Frankly, Pregor, this seem a tad silly to me. War is war and if one side hits the other then the other should be able to strike back with all it has, so long as such response is targeted at the enemy and not innocents.

Well for your knowledge when these random rockets were launched form Lebanon the israelis responded with artilery, they bombed the locations from which the missiles were launched, and if you know israel is constantly violating Lebanese airspace since 2000. as for the 2006 kidnapping operation israel should bombed a couple of Hizbollah offices and military targets and then moved on to negotiations.

Hmmmm. Then by your reasoning warmongers in the US could justify many of their aggressions. Do you really want to set that as the precedent? Clearly, under your reasoning when Iran took US diplomats hostage, the US could have and should have responded with overwhelming force. Thank God, that it did not. Similarly, clearly, you support the US war in Afghanistan because it is in response to 9-11. Is that really what you mean to say?

well in fact the Iranian revolution was a response to the british and american interference in the life of iranians in addition to the shah and his secret police which where supported by the british US and israel. as for the US war in Afghanistan there several controversies about the attack such as the presence of ac connetction between ossama bin laden and bush. IN my view 9/11 was a set up in order to allow the US to invade Iraq and Afghanistan for petrolium purposes.

in this case I support Qassam.Let us ASSUME for a moment that God actually gave the jews the right of return do you think God is ok with the jews killing women and children just because "it is their land"??

I don’t presume to speak for God nor even understand his actions. I hope that God sanctions neither the murder of Muslims or Jews. Although, a theologian friend of mine has pointed out the Old Testament description of how the Jews came to possess the Holy Land through the wholesale slaughter of its then inhabitants. Joshua at Jericho is an example. I prefer to think of the God who sent Jesus as the Savior of mankind and established a New Covenant. Frankly, though I think neither of us are empowered to speak for God.

well let me refine my statment. do the teachings and ethics and morals of God in all three Holy Books say that if something belongs to you and it was taken you can get it back by force???

Catsoo · « **Reply #52 on:** October 25, 2009, 05:30:14 AM »

The video was taken by the terrorists:


Iranian AH-1 super cobra attack on terrorists	Small \| Large

catsoo

Pasdar · « **Reply #53 on:** October 25, 2009, 06:12:04 AM »

Need to detect them with IR and then bomb them all to judgement day.

Ambassador · « **Reply #54 on:** October 26, 2009, 12:09:29 AM »

^

Yeah, that's what I think also.

It is my belief that many Iranian scientists and engineers have enough knowledge to build IR equipments, but for some reason Iran doesn't build any in substantial number.

Also, I thought Iran's AH-1's were Sea Cobras, not Super Cobras.

Ayyash · « **Reply #55 on:** October 26, 2009, 01:09:15 AM »

I couldn't tell in the video if they were TOW-capable cobra's.

If they are they could have IR in the nose, or if they're not, they could have it in the ball under the fuselage.

mamdali · « **Reply #56 on:** October 26, 2009, 03:48:17 AM »

Go to 2:51. What is that pointed at the Cobra? An RPG? I can't tell for sure but I hear them saying 'RPG!' 'RPG' in the same approx. timeframe.

Ayyash · « **Reply #57 on:** October 26, 2009, 04:42:23 AM »

Quote from: mamdali on October 26, 2009, 03:48:17 AM

Go to 2:51. What is that pointed at the Cobra? An RPG? I can't tell for sure but I hear them saying 'RPG!' 'RPG' in the same approx. timeframe.

I think so, a little bit before that scene you can see one of them readying the warhead.

Moon · « **Reply #58 on:** October 26, 2009, 09:00:18 AM »

Posted by: MikePapa1

Ah, Moon, there you are wrong. I don’t unconditionally support Israel, I simply support its right to exist.

Its right to exist where and at whose expense?Is this support not unconditional?

Now, Moon, you and I have spoken in the past, always in a civil and respectful manner. You know I am able to reason. To suggest otherwise is, as you know, disingenuous.

Where is the reason in defending the Zionist Israel?You and I can talk ourselves to death,the reality is that Palestinians are STILL oppressed,STILL displaced,STILL getting killed.Whats the point of talking?

Far from it. The truth, Moon, is that both sides commit atrocities and war crimes. Both sides should be punished for it. The problem with most here is that they only see war crimes by Israelis and justify those by forces with which they agree. I would think, Moon, that you are intellectually honest enough to admit that.

What war are you talking about?You call it war when Israel bombs Gaza when Hamas has no Air Force,no Navy,no army?There is as arms embargo on Gaza,they cant have weapons of their choice while Israel is free to do her shopping anywhere in the West.Infact Israel doesnt have to shop,they West freely grants her weapons of her choice.You call this equation war?Is this fair?Is it just?Let alone the reasons bringing about this conflict,the sheer disproportion of it is alarming.

Well, I guess, you being so much more knowledgeable and sophisticated can tell me how firing rockets, mortars and suicide attacks on buses and markets are not war crimes. I await your explanation.

Again,this is not war but genocide.As I pointed out to you above,by using the term who you inferring that there are two armies warring here.Its not the case,its genocide.

MikePapa1 · « **Reply #59 on:** October 26, 2009, 06:52:39 PM »

Its right to exist where and at whose expense?Is this support not unconditional?

Yes, its right to exist. Likewise, I believe that the Palestinians also have the same right.

Where is the reason in defending the Zionist Israel?

I certainly think so, yes.

You and I can talk ourselves to death,the reality is that Palestinians are STILL oppressed,STILL displaced,STILL getting killed.Whats the point of talking?

With that attitude, Moon, no dispute is amenable to solution.

What war are you talking about?

The war that has existed since Israel’s creation.

You call it war when Israel bombs Gaza when Hamas has no Air Force,no Navy,no army?

Yes, I do.

There is as arms embargo on Gaza,they cant have weapons of their choice while Israel is free to do her shopping anywhere in the West.Infact Israel doesnt have to shop,they West freely grants her weapons of her choice.You call this equation war?

Yes, Moon, I do. It may not be “fair” but it clearly is a war. People on both sides keep dying at the hand of the other. That is, war.

Is this fair?

Wars are rarely fair.

Is it just?

Wars are rarely just.

Let alone the reasons bringing about this conflict,the sheer disproportion of it is alarming.

Sounds to me like all the more reason for the Palestinians to seek peace rather than continuing to fired mortars and rockets at Israeli civilians.

Again,this is not war but genocide.

Genocide? Really? Interesting. If this is really genocide it is the first in history where the population that is sought to be eradicated increases as opposed to declines. I guess you are seeking to redefine the term genocide.

As I pointed out to you above,by using the term who you inferring that there are two armies warring here.Its not the case,its genocide.

As I pointed out is the first genocide where the population increases rather than decreases.

mohsin · « **Reply #60 on:** October 27, 2009, 05:40:20 AM »

Quote

As I pointed out is the first genocide where the population increases rather than decreases.

what a discussing and inhumane comment.

mods i believe a warning and removal of this comment is required.

kibolbo · « **Reply #61 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:56:58 AM »

Not sure if this was posted earlier.

Quote

Pakistan holds Iran border guards
27.10.2009 07:53

Pakistan holds Iran border guards

Pakistan has detained 11 Iranian "security officers" on its border after giving chase to some smugglers, BBC reported.

Earlier, local officials had said they were members of the elite Revolutionary Guards force, but later reports made no reference to this.

The Iranians were detained near Mashkel district, after shooting out the tyres of the smuggler's car, reports say.

Iranian state TV says some of the men were "border guards hunting smugglers who had accidently entered Pakistan."

A Pakistani security official said the Iranians were arrested about four miles (seven km) from the border with Iran.

Pakistan officials said the detainees had been travelling in two cars without travel documents.

The Iranian official state news agency interviewed the commander of Sistan-Baluichstan's border guards, who says eight of his personnel were detained.

General Gholam-Nabi Kuhkan said: "Pakistani local security forces arrived [at the scene] and arrested the [Iranian] police members as well as three smugglers.

"Pakistan's police have contacted [Iran]... saying they could not distinguish the police from the smugglers... and had to arrest them all.

"Final arrangements are being made to release the police personnel," he added.

The arrests come just over a week since a suicide bomb killed 42 people, among them six Revolutionary Guard commanders, in Iran's Sistan-Baluchistan province.

Iran said a Sunni militant group had launched the attack from Pakistan. Islamabad denied any involvement.

http://en.trend.az/regions/world/ocountries/1566883.html

I wouldn't have believed that Pakistan would arrest Iran's border guards. I am quite surprised as I had estimated Iran to be far stronger than Pakistan.

MikePapa1 · « **Reply #62 on:** October 29, 2009, 03:31:18 AM »

Why do my comments disturb you so, Mohsin? They are true. If the Israelis are, in fact, committing genocide they are the worst at it in history. The Palestinian population has consistently increased during this "genocide."

mohsin · « **Reply #63 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:08:46 AM »

it disturbs me because you think that killing palestinians on a mass scale is ok because their population is growing. your comment indicates that its ok for Zionists to contain palestinian population through genocide.

Moon · « **Reply #64 on:** October 29, 2009, 12:05:55 PM »

Posted by: MikePapa1

Yes, its right to exist. Likewise, I believe that the Palestinians also have the same right.

I asked you at whose expense,you ignored me.

With that attitude, Moon, no dispute is amenable to solution.

Is it my attitude causing havoc or that Zionist cancer?You need to get your head thinking straight.

Yes, Moon, I do. It may not be “fair” but it clearly is a war. People on both sides keep dying at the hand of the other. That is, war.

You like a brocken record.I asked you about the embargo on Gaza while Israel has none,you ignored me again.I dont have time to play seek and hide with you.Thats why I say you cant reason.

Sounds to me like all the more reason for the Palestinians to seek peace rather than continuing to fired mortars and rockets at Israeli civilians.

In other words Palestinians must roll over?Let me tell you this,Hamas will never give up Palestine.They know that God promised them victory in the end,they will resist,persevere,struggle...do all it takes for their right.Moreoever no sane Muslim will give up Al Aqsa,we will bleed to death for the Holy Land.Our time will come Mp1,you can play God for now,spreading injustice and curruption,but know this,our Hour will come.Walk around earth hitting our chest,rejoice and plunder the world,however do know that our time will come.You can play around now,spreading propaganda and hiding the truth,do all these knowing that time is against you.

Genocide? Really? Interesting. If this is really genocide it is the first in history where the population that is sought to be eradicated increases as opposed to declines. I guess you are seeking to redefine the term genocide.

Its been discreasing since 1948.Did you not know that Jews were few hundred thousands pre 1948?What is the population now?Its numbering millions,while Palestinians have drastically been decreased both in number and their land.Now you can sit there in your America,with you stomach shining because of your genetically modified food and play seek and hide games.When it comes to Palestine,its not a game for me.Its a very serious matter,its a matter of life and death.

MikePapa1 · « **Reply #65 on:** October 29, 2009, 12:14:58 PM »

it disturbs me because you think that killing palestinians on a mass scale is ok because their population is growing.

That's an interesting twist, Mohsin. I certainly never said any such thing. Let me set out for you what I think is OK. I think it is OK to attack military targets of ones enemy, regardless of the scale of casualties so long as war is still pursued by their enemy.

your comment indicates that its ok for Zionists to contain palestinian population through genocide.

With respect, Mohsin, that is simply nonsense. Genocide is a word that has a meaning. It means to systematically exterminate a population because of a specific characteristic of that population, generally racial or ethnic. My problem with the claim of the Palestinian "genocide" is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Israelis are engaged in the systematic extermination of Palestinians. None. This is not to excuse the brutal behavior of either side in that ongoing and senseless war. Claims of genocide, however, where there is no genocide, simply undermines the real truth of Palestinian suffering, harming their cause by bringing into question real stories of abuse.

The problem with demonizing enemies, Mohsin, is that if your stories are so over the top as to be obviously false, as in this silly genocide claim, it causes people to doubt even the truthful stories of abuses that might help their cause. While I am hardly an objective observer, having stated belief repeatedly on what I think is a logical and acceptable solution to the ongoing hostilities, outright silly constructions like this genocide nonsense, only undermines the legitimate suffering and abuse of the Palestinians as a result of their leaders outright refusal to consider any peace that allows the existence of Israel.

MikePapa1 · « **Reply #66 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:09:14 PM »

I asked you at whose expense,you ignored me.

Nothing is done without expense, Moon. Clearly, the Israelis have increased the size of Israel at the expense of their Arab enemies, who from the beginning were determined to drive the Jews from the land. People who lose wars, as the Arabs have repeatedly, tend to suffer as a result. You ask at whose expense, frankly, I thought your question was rhetorical, as I would have thought the answer was obvious. The Arabs who fought and lost, together with their descendants are paying the price for their failure.

Is it my attitude causing havoc or that Zionist cancer?You need to get your head thinking straight.

My thinking is quite straight, Moon. So long as you view the situation as solvable by only one solution, the destruction of Israel, no other solution is possible. Your refusal to see that Israel might exist is the problem, not Israel’s existence.

You like a brocken record.I asked you about the embargo on Gaza while Israel has none,you ignored me again.I dont have time to play seek and hide with you.Thats why I say you cant reason.

I know you claim that, Moon. The embargo of Gaza is an act of war. Just like the German attempts in both world wars to embargo the UK, and the allies succeeded in embargoing Germany. You can ignore the truth, Moon, if you wish, but the embargo of Gaza is clearly an act of war in an ongoing world the started even before the UN acceptance of partition.

In other words Palestinians must roll over?

I would suggest that acceptance of their hopeless position, would be a more accuarate statement.

Let me tell you this,Hamas will never give up Palestine.

Yes, I know they believe they must destroy Israel.

They know that God promised them victory in the end,they will resist,persevere,struggle...do all it takes for their right.

When did God do that? Did I miss it?

Moreoever no sane Muslim will give up Al Aqsa,we will bleed to death for the Holy Land.

You mean the way that Muslims deprived Jews the right to visit the Western Wall while they controlled Jerusalem?

Our time will come Mp1,you can play God for now,spreading injustice and curruption,but know this,our Hour will come.

Stirring rhetoric, Moon. It sounds almost intolerant of the presence of others. Is that really what you mean, Moon, Islam uber alles, by the force of arms? Surely that’s not what you are advocating.

Walk around earth hitting our chest,rejoice and plunder the world,however do know that our time will come.You can play around now,spreading propaganda and hiding the truth,do all these knowing that time is against you.

My, my, my. I am hardly doing anything of the sort, Moon. Such histrionic rhetoric, Moon, is more than a bit amusing. Simply because I believe that both sides in the conflict are entitled to a homeland of their own. That is a bit much.

Its been discreasing since 1948.

The Palestinian population? Nonsense. Before 1967, they weren’t even Palestinians, they were simply Arabs living under Jordanian or Egyptian control. Since their emergence as a distinct people, their numbers have increased. I vividly remember the threads in the prior IMF incarnation about their ultimate victory through demographics, that they would overwhelm the Jews by their sheer numbers. Such talk, as I recall applauded by you, is hardly consistent with a population being subjected to genocide.

Did you not know that Jews were few hundred thousands pre 1948?What is the population now?

Jews have expanded vastly through immigration, yes. Now its population is on the order of a bit over 5 million.

Its numbering millions,while Palestinians have drastically been decreased both in number and their land.

Land, yes. Population, no. I looked up the Wiki article on the Palestinians and they claim that between “Palestinians” living in Israel and in the Palestinian territories, the current population is roughly 5 million. The last figures available from the mandate in 1947 placed Muslim inhabitants of the mandate at 1.1 million. No one really knows how many were there but lets even assume there were 2-3 million. When one considers those who fled in 1948 with those remaining today, there is no method that can be used to substantiate any claim of genocide.

Now you can sit there in your America,with you stomach shining because of your genetically modified food and play seek and hide games.

A very poetic image, Moon. Is my stomach really shining so brightly?

When it comes to Palestine,its not a game for me.Its a very serious matter,its a matter of life and death.

I am very much aware of that, Moon. You decry the death of Palestinians and applaud the death of Israelis. I really understand very well the stakes here and do not view it as a game at all. It is as I said before a war. A very ugly war with one side, the side that has been losing for the last 60 years, dreaming incessantly of the extermination and absolute destruction of the other, while those who have won continue to fight to contain this murderous intent of the other. So long as the goal remains the destruction of Israel, I see nothing but more death and suffering on both sides. Tragic, but it seems that is what you want to see. I, on the other hand, do not.

MO_SOBOH · « **Reply #67 on:** October 29, 2009, 03:26:22 PM »

Quote by mike "

Land, yes. Population, no. I looked up the Wiki article on the Palestinians and they claim that between “Palestinians” living in Israel and in the Palestinian territories, the current population is roughly 5 million. The last figures available from the mandate in 1947 placed Muslim inhabitants of the mandate at 1.1 million. No one really knows how many were there but lets even assume there were 2-3 million. When one considers those who fled in 1948 with those remaining today, there is no method that can be used to substantiate any claim of genocide."

Reallyyyy very very interesting mike, so that means there's also no way of counting how many jews went to the gas chambers? am i right? or are you going to dig up an old piece of paper and claim it as your evidence??? How did the Amerikkkans and Izraelis calculate millions of death regarding the holocaust? Your not making sense at all zionist! Explain ur self! That means you also proved President Ahmadinejad point that the holocaust doesnt exist! If that is true mike then why are you still defending Israel's right to exist? without the Holocaust Izrael doesnt exist! So why are you defending Izrael?

Alone till this day Izrael is responsible for over half a million Palestinian and Arab deaths! can u justify that?? go on!! its like justifying Hiroshima and Nagasaki but worst! because they died instantly God Rest their souls. As for Us we are till this day suffering and getting killed gradually! I dont need a lawyer to answer this question Mike I need a human being! If you cant answer it like that then dont! This is why we Izrael is a oppressive regime that cannot be trusted and must not exist! this is why we are DEFENDING OUR SELVES!

Qassam · « **Reply #68 on:** October 29, 2009, 04:04:04 PM »

Mike quote
I would suggest that acceptance of their hopeless position, would be a more accuarate statement.

Quit making me laugh, we will NEVER bow down to anyone. Palestinians are a strong and proud people much like our Iranian brothers, Lebanese, etc. Are you saying we are in a hopeless position? You got it all wrong MP1. The only one in the hopeless position is your buddy Israel or should I say heading there. Sooner or later Israel will be no more if they keep doing what they have been doing. Our struggle has nothing to do with being hopeless and it actually makes us stronger. More people are waking up too Israels true nature as inhumane criminals. The longer Israel builds illegal settlements, keeps on demolish homes, building apartheid walls, killing civilians, etc. The more Israels survival becomes slimmer and slimmer. Israel is heading to a point where they will not be able to turn back. Right now with all the illegal settlements in the West Bank and how they have been strategically placed it is already almost impossible for a two state solution. Palestinians will soon be the majority even inside of the fake regime now called "Israel" not including the West Bank and Gaza. Israel is just delaying its eventual destruction instead of preventing it.
Now ask yourself who is truly hopeless?

@ MO_SOBOSH Ahamdinjad never claimed the holocaust did not happen. He was just denying how they use the holocaust to do their evil deeds.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23579.htm
Read this article it explains it better than I can.

MikePapa1 · « **Reply #69 on:** October 29, 2009, 04:37:24 PM »

Reallyyyy very very interesting mike, so that means there's also no way of counting how many jews went to the gas chambers?

Frankly, Mo, I’m not sure what the Holocaust has to do with this discussion, but to answer your question, an exact count, no. The Nazis were, however, excellent record keepers and did keep records of the people, Jews and others, sent to the camps and killed. There were many more killed before they got to the camps. There is no perfect count, no.

am i right? or are you going to dig up an old piece of paper and claim it as your evidence???

Evidence? You mean Nazi records of the camps isn’t evidence as to what went on there? You really can’t be serious, Mo.

How did the Amerikkkans and Izraelis calculate millions of death regarding the holocaust?

Partially from the records kept by the Nazis, part based upon the decline of populations in Europe from before the war and after the war. This included Jews, Roma and others.

Your not making sense at all zionist! Explain ur self!

Well, you are entitled to your view, Mo, no matter how misguided and uninformed it might be.

That means you also proved President Ahmadinejad point that the holocaust doesnt exist!

As Qassam has pointed out, that’s not what President Ahmadinejad said. Frankly, I agree with him that the numbers often bandied about for politic purposes, i.e. 6 million Jews is not accurate. I support research as to the true number, which based upon my research should be closer to 4.9 million, but I’m really not sure what difference it makes. Is the murder of 4.9 million souls simply for being who they are any less hideous than murdering 6 million for the same reason? I think not.

If that is true mike then why are you still defending Israel's right to exist?

My position that Israel has a right to exist has nothing whatsoever to do with the Holocaust.

without the Holocaust Izrael doesnt exist!

Wouldn’t have existed? You are probably right about that. Clearly, the Holocaust was the impetus behind the world recognizing the right of the Jews to a homeland in the Holy Land.

So why are you defending Izrael?

Because I believe that Jews should be entitled to a homeland in the Holy Land, of course.

Alone till this day Izrael is responsible for over half a million Palestinian and Arab deaths!

The Palestinian and Arab leaders seeking to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the sea don’t have any responsibility, Mo? War is a terrible thing. People die in war. All the more reason for the Arabs to seek peace rather than continuing war.

can u justify that??

Justify? No. Understand? Yes.

go on!! its like justifying Hiroshima and Nagasaki but worst! because they died instantly God Rest their souls.

Unfortunately, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary to force Japan to accept their defeat and surrender. As horrible as those deaths are, they saved millions, bot Americans and Japanese.

As for Us we are till this day suffering and getting killed gradually!

No question about that, Mo. All the more reason to want peace rather than continued war.

I dont need a lawyer to answer this question Mike I need a human being!

Well, you are talking to both.

If you cant answer it like that then don’t!

I have answered them.

This is why we Izrael is a oppressive regime that cannot be trusted and must not exist! this is why we are DEFENDING OUR SELVES!

Seeking to utterly destroy others is not self defense. You can attempt to spin all you’d like but so long as you seek war, people on both sides will continue to suffer. Unfortunately, because of the disproportionate military might between the two sides, the Palestinians will continue to suffer more. This fact, however, is hardly proof of a genocide. Quite the contrary. It is evidence that fanaticism and an irrational desire to believe things that simply aren’t true, leads to death and suffering that could easily be avoided by the simple willingness to compromise. You can continue to be intransigent, but those who die as a result are on your hands not the Israelis.

MikePapa1 · « **Reply #70 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:18:30 PM »

Quit making me laugh, we will NEVER bow down to anyone.

That is fine, Qassam. I would suggest though that if that is true it is a tad hypocritical to decry the logical results of this decisioni.e., that more Palestinians will die at the hands of Israelis.

Palestinians are a strong and proud people much like our Iranian brothers, Lebanese, etc.

Yes, they are.

Are you saying we are in a hopeless position?

Yes, I am. If your goal is the destruction of Israel to “reclaim” this land as Palestine, that is a hopeless dream.

You got it all wrong MP1.

Perhaps, but, so far, history is on my side.

The only one in the hopeless position is your buddy Israel or should I say heading there. Sooner or later Israel will be no more if they keep doing what they have been doing.

Time will tell, but I fully don’t expect to live to see it.

Our struggle has nothing to do with being hopeless and it actually makes us stronger.

Then why are you complaining? If it is good for you, then why complain?

More people are waking up too Israels true nature as inhumane criminals. The longer Israel builds illegal settlements, keeps on demolish homes, building apartheid walls, killing civilians, etc. The more Israels survival becomes slimmer and slimmer. Israel is heading to a point where they will not be able to turn back. Right now with all the illegal settlements in the West Bank and how they have been strategically placed it is already almost impossible for a two state solution. Palestinians will soon be the majority even inside of the fake regime now called "Israel" not including the West Bank and Gaza.

I really don’t understand, Qassam. Israel is growing, expanding into conquered territory, and is committing “genocide” against the Palestinian people, but you say, “Palestinians will soon be the majority even inside of the fake regime now called "Israel" not including the West Bank and Gaza.” If Israel is committing genocide, as some here have alleged, how is it possible for them not only to become a majority, not only in the Palestinian Authority but in Israel itself? I’m sorry, Qassam, but both cannot be occurring at the same time.

Israel is just delaying its eventual destruction instead of preventing it.

Time will tell, but, so far, they seem to be surviving just fine.

Now ask yourself who is truly hopeless?

You mean as opposed to deluding themselves?

MO_SOBOH · « **Reply #71 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:19:59 PM »

Quote from: MikePapa1 on October 29, 2009, 04:37:24 PM

As Qassam has pointed out, that’s not what President Ahmadinejad said. Frankly, I agree with him that the numbers often bandied about for politic purposes, i.e. 6 million Jews is not accurate. I support research as to the true number, which based upon my research should be closer to 4.9 million, but I’m really not sure what difference it makes. Is the murder of 4.9 million souls simply for being who they are any less hideous than murdering 6 million for the same reason? I think not.

Ok, but say I dont agree with you, and say I think its far FAR more less... say i think its around 100,000 thousand, then what would you say to a person like me who is asking for SOLID PROOF!

My position that Israel has a right to exist has nothing whatsoever to do with the Holocaust.

Your position has everything to do with the Holocaust, Your a zionist.... not a Jew... there's a big deference if you havent noticed Mike! So that means you support the right for the State of Izrael to exist not the Jews or the Christians OR the muslims! Izrael like you said wouldnt have existed if it werent for the Holocaust! There for It has everything to do with this!

Wouldn’t have existed? You are probably right about that. Clearly, the Holocaust was the impetus behind the world recognizing the right of the Jews to a homeland in the Holy Land.

Ofcourse it was!

Because I believe that Jews should be entitled to a homeland in the Holy Land, of course.

Yes, I also agree all religions be entitled to a homeland, but Izrael has to go to the moon, im sure ull dig up a solution there or something, See Jews, Christians, Muslims are already living with each other..... Izrael doesnt want that, it doesnt want peace otherwise by now since the tables are hot it would have recognized a two state solution instead of babbling about it... and by now they would have stopped the settlement that are FAAR beyond deconstruction! These arent ordinary JEWS these are ZIONISTS who only think about oppression and the distruction. You see again Jews have defferent views to Zionists! They are not the same thing!

The Palestinian and Arab leaders seeking to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the sea don’t have any responsibility, Mo? War is a terrible thing. People die in war. All the more reason for the Arabs to seek peace rather than continuing war.

They wouldnt If they were seeking peace! + Arab most Arab leaders are in ur pocket.... so what the hell are u talking about??? You see again Izrael doesnt want peace it wants War... If it did then it would recognize the points I made earlier. Btw I didnt mention the Prisoners held in Izraeli jails... you might also want to look into that. War is a thing you create and Izrael is the only one in that region that starts wars!

Justify? No. Understand? Yes.

Then Explain it!

Unfortunately, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary to force Japan to accept their defeat and surrender. As horrible as those deaths are, they saved millions, bot Americans and Japanese.

Necessary force $:-\$ first time i heard you say that... and you feel sympathy of course.. wow. Accept Defeat? I never knew you guys would win the war without an atom bomb.... Saved millions?? How ON EARTH did you figure that out? wow, shocking! please, i am very interested in hearing more about this....

No question about that, Mo. All the more reason to want peace rather than continued war.

no thanks ill stick to fighting till death! If by peace you mean Oppression, Rape, Murder, Humuliation, False im prisonment, Home demolition, Rights reduced to dog then I already answered your question... but when its REAL peace your looking for then the FIRST thing Izrael has to do THE FIRST THING is release the prisoners aof all ages... this step would more than ease the tentions... then little by little they remove the settlers one by one until the 1948 borders..... Supply open routes to borders and Allow the palestinians a state of their own without IZRAELI intervention! but this is allll a fairy tale to you mike because you dont think like a normal person you think like a zionist! These are things Izrael cannot commit to because they DONT WANT PEACE! and if you say they do then ur either a zionist or a liar!!!!

Well, you are talking to both.

wow I never the human being side of you that would be intersting to study, but unfortunaltey you cant be both.... you have to choose... you cant be a lawyer and a human being at the same time, and if you say yes to that then you have seen too many holly wood movies!

I have answered them.

Ok then answer some more!

Seeking to utterly destroy others is not self defense. You can attempt to spin all you’d like but so long as you seek war, people on both sides will continue to suffer. Unfortunately, because of the disproportionate military might between the two sides, the Palestinians will continue to suffer more. This fact, however, is hardly proof of a genocide. Quite the contrary. It is evidence that fanaticism and an irrational desire to believe things that simply aren’t true, leads to death and suffering that could easily be avoided by the simple willingness to compromise. You can continue to be intransigent, but those who die as a result are on your hands not the Israelis.

We are not destroying other as i pointed out above we are living with the other, jews christians and muslims together, with no defernces, Im not spinning nothing im just getting to the bottom of this.

Palestinians dont suffer more! Izraelis do because they didnt earn the land honestly... the people made a choice and wanted to stand for the oppression that why they elected Hamas in order to restore the stolen land? do you also think Izrael has the right to continue building illegal settlements? Is that the usuall punishment for not shaking the killers hand? Throw rockets and we will demolish and build more settlments.... come on stop excusing this! HARDLY PROOF OF GENOCIDE!!! now you are really becoming a jerk! A liar who cant admit that Izrael is delibratley targetting civilians not rockets being shot without guided missle! im not excusing either but there's a limit to howmuch for you can use on a human being. white phosfurus? You even using napalm in the past as well!

On my hands? I dont go to any Palestinian and force them to fight thats why God gave you will to decide... that means its their descion came completley voluntary in order to defend their right to exist from this oppression! Izrael forces it on the people... Izrael is the army.. without it it would crumble!

This ALL mike just goes to show really you are far worst brainwashed than i ever thought u were... only a undecent human being would do that to him self! Its impossible to have peace if every Izraeli has your attitude! The Palestinian blood and every single blood spilled from any innocent victim let it be a baby mearly months old IS ON UR HANDS for supporting this you zionist!

MO_SOBOH · « **Reply #72 on:** October 30, 2009, 12:22:45 PM »

Quote from: MikePapa1 on October 29, 2009, 06:18:30 PM

I really don’t understand, Qassam. Israel is growing, expanding into conquered territory, and is committing “genocide” against the Palestinian people, but you say, “Palestinians will soon be the majority even inside of the fake regime now called "Israel" not including the West Bank and Gaza.” If Israel is committing genocide, as some here have alleged, how is it possible for them not only to become a majority, not only in the Palestinian Authority but in Israel itself? I’m sorry, Qassam, but both cannot be occurring at the same time.

Total fertility rate (2008)
In Israel, the total fertility rate (TFR) is 2.96 children born per woman.
TFR was 2.88 for Jews (2.69 in 2005, 2.67 in 2000), 3.84 for Muslims (4.03 in 2005, 4.57 in 2000), 2.49 for Druze (2.59 in 2005, 2.87 in 2000), 2.11 for Christians (2.15 in 2005, 2.35 in 2000) and 1.57 for Others (1.49 in 2005, 1.55 in 2000).
TFR is very high among Haredi Jews. For Ashkenazi Haredim, the TFR rose to 8.51 in 1996 from 6.91 in 1980. The figure for 2008 is estimated to be even higher. TFR for Sephardi/Mizrachi Haredim rose from 4.57 in 1980 to 6.57 in 1996.[18]

here u go mike this explains Qassam's theory that he is correct! Just because the population is big doesnt prove that Izrael isn't creating Genocide!.... lets look at it ur way then.. Genocide:Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

That means you don't actually have to destroy the WHOLE population of 1 race in order for u to call it Genocide! you simply need the will which Izrael has.... and it proved it more than ever in the last January war!

++ regarding the status for the fertility rate clearly you can see that jews are part of the zionist community as the fertility rate, Where as Palestinians can be Christians and Muslims and Jews at the same time and alone the Muslim population holds a faaar more better fertility rate than any other religion! This alone should quite u down a bit and hopefully allow ur brain to understand! Although wiki defends the Jewish with non fact. the fact remains they will lose in the future eventually to a majority Muslim population!

maiser · « **Reply #73 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:30:08 PM »

Quote from: Moon on October 23, 2009, 08:32:38 AM

Posted by: MikePapa1

Reason, Moon? Is that what you call mindless hatred? If that is what passes for reason here, I’m glad I’ve missed it.

Mp1 your mind operates in a one-way stream,that is unconditionally supprting Israel and act as their propaganda mouthpiece to hide Israel's actrocities.This is the premise of your position,this hardly qualifies as reasoning.What you call or want us to believe is mindless hatred,is actually an attempt to cover the truth.That kind of propaganda flies very well in the US as the people there arent really clued up about world affairs,diplomatically speaking that is.However is doesnt work with people who know world affairs,they can identify it for what it is,a propaganda piece.

Well said!

Qassam · « **Reply #74 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:57:07 PM »

That is fine, Qassam. I would suggest though that if that is true it is a tad hypocritical to decry the logical results of this decisioni.e., that more Palestinians will die at the hands of Israelis.
Now you are trying to turns things around on the Palestinians. Bravo Bravo they sure taught you well on excusing Israeli atrocities. Palestinians defending against occupation, kidnappings of their family members, stealing of their land, etc. is because of the actions of like you said "hands of Israelis".

Yes, I am. If your goal is the destruction of Israel to “reclaim” this land as Palestine, that is a hopeless dream.
Israel is causing the destruction of itself.

Perhaps, but, so far, history is on my side.
History? Palestinians have remained strong against our oppressors.

Time will tell, but I fully don’t expect to live to see it.
We will see

Then why are you complaining? If it is good for you, then why complain?
Never said it was good for us but I am saying it is making us stronger.

I really don’t understand, Qassam. Israel is growing, expanding into conquered territory, and is committing “genocide” against the Palestinian people, but you say, “Palestinians will soon be the majority even inside of the fake regime now called "Israel" not including the West Bank and Gaza.” If Israel is committing genocide, as some here have alleged, how is it possible for them not only to become a majority, not only in the Palestinian Authority but in Israel itself? I’m sorry, Qassam, but both cannot be occurring at the same time.
Didn't I already give you the UN definition of genocide and already discussed it? I believe so......MO_SOBOH makes some good points above.

Time will tell, but, so far, they seem to be surviving just fine.
We will see.....

You mean as opposed to deluding themselves?
Other factors come in play just pointing out their actions that are dooming themselves.