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Offline mp5

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U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« on: May 30, 2011, 10:02:53 PM »
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احتمالي
ماهواره‌هاي نظامي آمريكا در تيررس موشك‌هاي دوربرد ايران
خبرگزاري فارس: روند رو به رشد ايران در ساخت پرتابگرهاي قدرتمند و برنامه ايران براي فرستادن انسان به فضا بين سال هاي 2020 تا 2025 ميلادي اين هشدار را به آمريكا مي دهد كه در يك برخورد نظامي احتمالي، ماهواره هاي نظامي اين كشور از امنيت كامل برخوردار نخواهند بود.

به گزارش خبرگزاري فارس، در پاييز سال 2009 رهبر انقلاب ايران كه فرماندهي كل نيروهاي مسلح را در اين كشور بر عهده دارد، با صدور فرماني افراد جديدي را در سمت هاي فرماندهي سپاه پاسداران و ستاد مشترك نيروهاي مسلح ايران منصوب كرد.
شايد اين مسئله به خودي خود مسئله چندان مهمي محسوب نشود و تنها شامل چند جابجايي عادي در ترتيبات فرماندهي باشد، اما رهبر انقلاب براي اولين بار در احكام نظامي خودشان از عنوان نيروي "هوا-فضا " براي يگان هاي هوايي سپاه پاسداران استفاده كردند كه تبديل به نامي مرسوم براي تغيير نام اين نيروي مستقل در مجموعه يگان هاي مسلح ايران شد.
تغيير نامي كه به طور حتم تنها محدود به مكاتبات اداري نخواهد ماند و تاثيرات مهمي در ماموريت ها و اهداف اين نيرو در آينده خواهد داشت.

*يك نگاه به فضا و نيم نگاهي به آسمان

نيروي هوا- فضاي سپاه پاسداران در مجموعه نيروهاي مسلح ايران اصلي ترين كاربر موشك هاي بالستيك به عنوان مهم ترين ابزار تهاجمي در مقابل هرگونه تعرض خارجي است.
نكته اي كه سرلشگر صفوي فرمانده پيشين سپاه پاسداران و مشاور كنوني نظامي رهبر انقلاب آن را به عنوان راهكاري برگزيده در مقابل توانمندي هاي دشمنان احتمالي در بخش تهديدات هوا-پايه و ضعف هاي سخت افزاري متقابل ايران ذكر مي كند.
نظاميان ايراني كه در دوران نبرد هشت ساله با همسايه شرقي خود شاهد هدف قرارگرفتن منافع حياتي و شهرهاي پرجمعيت خود توسط موشك هاي اسكاد ساخت اتحاد جماهير شوروي بودند، پس از برقراري صلح با تمام توان شروع به توسعه زرادخانه موشك هاي بالستيك زمين پايه خود كردند.
به تدريج و با گذشت زمان ايران قدرتمندترين زرادخانه موشكي در خاورميانه را ايجاد كرد كه از لحاظ فناوري با به طور مدام در حال رشد و تكامل بود.
دستيابي به تكنولوژي ساخت موشك هاي جامد و تست اولين نسل از پرتابه هاي اين چنيني با برد بيش از دو هزار كيلومتر به نام سجيل، عملياتي شدن نسل جديدتر موشك هاي تاكتيكي به نام فاتح با برد 350 كيلومتر و همچنين تجهيز كلاهك هاي موشك سوخت مايع به سيستم هاي هدف گيري چندگانه (MVR ) بخشي از پيشرفت هاي ايران در اين بخش بوده است.
از همين رو همواره توانمندي هاي اين نيرو كه پيش از آن تنها پسوند هوايي را يدك مي كشيد، در اين بخش به هواگردهاي متعارف كه بيشتر متكي به جنگنده هاي پشتيباني نزديك SU-24 روسي و هواپيماهاي توربو پراب توكانو برزيلي است، برتري داشته است.

*اميد، پنجره ورود ايران به عصرفضا

در كنار اين توسعه برنامه فضايي ايران پيوند نزديكي با پيشرفت هاي ايران در بخش پرتابه هاي نظامي ايران دارد. ايران كه برنامه فضايي آن پيش ازانقلاب تنها محدود به ساخت مشترك ماهواره با كشورهاي خارجي بود، پس از انقلاب همزمان با توسعه موشك هاي بالستيك به احياي برنامه فضايي خود پرداخت.
اين تلاش ها در نهايت با پرتاب ماهواره بومي اميد و پرتابگري موسوم به سفير از يك پايگاه پرتاب موشك در نزديكي سمنان به نتيجه رسيد و ايران را وارد عصر فضا كرد.
هم اكنون نيز تلاش هاي ايران درعرصه فضايي با توسعه پرتابگرهاي قدرتمند تر و ساخت ماهواره هاي قدرتمند تر در زمينه هاي مخابراتي، نظامي و تحقيقاتي هم چنان ادامه دارد.

*فشار بر رگ حياتي نظامي آمريكا

ايران حتي در كوتاه مدت هم نمي تواند به تلاش هاي رقباي خود در عرصه تكنولوژي فضايي بي اعتنا بماند. تلاش آمريكا و به طور كلي غرب براي ساماندهي و فرماندهي نيروهاي خود در سرتاسرجهان به شدت متكي بر ماهواره هاي ارتباطي و مخابراتي مستقر در مدار زمين است.
اين وابستگي در دهه اول قرن بيست و يكم و ارائه مفهوم جنگ نت محور نيز به شدت افزايش پيدا كرده است. اگر در جنگ هاي قرن بيستم توانايي جهت يابي سربازان متكي به تكنيك هاي دستي و نقشه هاي كاغذي سنتي بود، در قرن بيست و يكم اين سيستم هاي مكان يابي جهاني هستند كه اين وظيفه را با دقتي باورنكردني انجام مي دهند.
اصلي ترين سامانه اي كه با ظرفيت كامل و به صورت جهاني در اين حوزه فعاليت مي كند، سيستم آمريكايي GPS است كه با 28 ماهواره فعال در مدار زمين در اختيار دارد.
البته روسيه با سيستم گلوناس و اتحاد اروپا و چين نيز با سيستم گاليله درصدد رسيدن به توانايي هايي مشابه سيستم آمريكايي در بحث جهت يابي هستند.
نيروهاي آمريكايي براي رهگيري و هدف قرار دادن نيروهاي متخاصم به شدت متكي به اين سيستم و سامانه هاي مكمل جاسوسي و مخابراتي هستند.بمب هاي آمريكايي به مدد همين سيستم قابليت هدف قرار دادن اهداف خود با دقت چند ده سانتيمتري هستند و ارتباط يگان ويژه آمريكايي با مراكز فرماندهي به مدد همين ارتباطات ممكن است.
هرگونه تخريب هدفمند در چنين سيستمي تبعات سنگيني براي نيروهاي آمريكايي و سيستم هاي هدايت و فرماندهي C4I اين كشور در پي دارد و علاوه بر اخلال در روند اجراي عمليات نظامي در صورت شدت يافتن مسئله مي تواند به فلج شدن نيروهاي آمريكايي از لحاظ تاكتيكي منجر شود.

*زره "نفوذ پذيري " كه قرار بود "نفوذ ناپذير " باشد

گرچه مراكز فرماندهي نيروهاي مسلح آمريكا مدعي ضربه ناپذيري سيستم هاي مخابراتي و نظامي فضايي خود هستند، اما يك پژوهش مستقل كه در سال 2001 از سوي آكادمي نيروي هوايي اين كشور انجام شد، بر آسيب پذيري سيستم هاي هدايت و كنترل ماهواره اين كشور و امكان اختلال در سيگنال هاي آن تاكيد داشت.
انهدام يك ماهواره هواشناسي از رده خارج از سوي ارتش آزاديبخش چين توسط يك موشك هوا به زمين زنگ خطر را براي آمريكا به صدا درآورد.
حتي كشور جنگ زده و تحت تحريمي همانند عراق نيز در جريان نبرد سال 2003 تلاش كرد تا از طريق ايجاد اختلال در گيرنده هاي GPS بمب ها و موشك هاي كروز آمريكايي، هدايت پذيري آنان را به حداقل برساند.
گرچه اين تلاش عراق به دليل كمبود امكانات به جايي نرسيد اما نشان از توجه دشمنان آمريكا نسبت به نقاط ضعف احتمالي اين كشور داشت.
همين مسئله تلاش آمريكا را براي نظامي كردن فضا دو چندان كرده است و اعتراضات ساير كشورها در خصوص مغايرت اين اقدام با قوانين بين المللي تاثير چنداني در متوقف كردن آن نداشته است. آزمايش هواپيماهاي بدون سرنشين با سرعت 24 ماخ و استقرار رادارهاي فضا پايه بخش از تلاش هاي ايالات متحده در اين راستا محسوب مي شوند.

*گزينه هاي محدود، اما تاثير گزاز

اما نيروهاي عمل كننده ايراني در اين حوزه و به خصوص نيروهاي هوا- فضاي سپاه پاسداران كه فضا در حوزه عملياتي آن قرار دارد، مي توانند با سرمايه گذاري بر راهبردهايي مشخص توان آفندي خود را به خوبي ارتقا دهند.

*هدف، ماهواره دشمن

اصلي ترين چشم انداز متناسب با توان فني ايران براي ايجاد توان پدافندي سرمايه گذاري در تسليحات انهدام ماهواره با موشك هاي بالستيك است. پرتابگرهاي ايراني مي توانند براي حمل كلاهك هاي ضد ماهواره به سرعت بهسازي شوند و براي انهدام ماهواره هاي مدار پايين استفاده شوند.
قدرتمند ترين پرتابگر ايراني موسوم به سيمرغ كه هنوز وارد خدمت نشده است، مي تواند محموله هاي سبك را تا مدارهاي كم ارتفاع ((LEO تا محدوده زير 1000 كيلومتري سطح زمين تامين كند.
اين در حالي است كه اغلب ماهواره هاي جاسوسي و مخابراتي ايالات متحده و اسراييل در مدار ژئوسنكرون در ارتفاع 36 هزار كيلومتري از سطح زمين مستقر است.
با اين حال روند رو به رشد ايران درساخت پرتابگرهاي قدرتمند و برنامه ايران براي فرستادن انسان به در فضا بين سال هاي 2020 تا 2025 ميلادي اين هشدار را به آمريكا مي دهد كه در يك برخورد نظامي احتمالي رودررو ماهواره هاي نظامي اين كشور از امنيت كامل برخوردار نخواهند بود.

*نبرد امواج در قلب فضا

ايران در يك رويكرد ميان مدت از توانايي هاي ديگري براي مقابله با توانمندي هاي فضايي آمريكا در حوزه ارتباطي برخوردار است.
يكي از اين توانايي ها ايجاد اختلال الكترو مغناطيسي در سيستم هاي الكترونيكي جرم هدف در مدار زمين است. ايران تاكنون تنها از اين توانايي در حوزه ايجاد اختلال در ماهواره هاي تلويزيوني مخالف استفاده كرد.
در يك مورد شدت امواج ارسالي بر ماهواره شبكه نايلست در جريان موج تخريبي رسانه هاي غرب در فنته سال 88 به قدري سنگين بود كه اين شبكه مجبور به خارج كردن اين ماهواره از جريان سرويس دهي براي جلوگيري از خسارات شديدتر بود.
با اين حالي هيچ ارزيابي مستقلي از توانمندي ايران در اين حوزه منتشر نشده است و به نظر مي رسد ايران نيز تاكنون از حملات اين چنيني عليه منافع آمريكا استفاده نكرده است.

*آيا جنگ ستارگان رنگ واقعيت به خود بگيرد

استفاده از نيروي نور متمركز يا ليزر درعرصه فضا سابقه به نسبت بلندي دارد. در اوج رقابت اتحاد جماهير شوروي و آمريكا در جنگ سرد استفاده از ليزر در قدرت نمايي هاي فضايي نقش مهمي را بر عهده داشت.
در برنامه بلند پروازانه رونالد ريگان رييس جمهور اسبق آمريكا براي بي اثر كردن توانمدي هاي موشكي اتحاد جماهير شوروي موسوم به جنگ ستارگان نقش اصلي برعهده ايستگاه هاي فضايي مجهز به توپ هاي ليزري بود. گرچه اين برنامه بسيار بلند پروازانه تر از آن بود كه عملي شود، اما استفاده اتحاد جماهير شوروي از اشعه ليزر براي ايجاد اختلال در برنامه شاتل چالنجر يك واقعيت است.
از سوي ديگر ليرز تاكتيكي هوابرد موسوم به (ABL ) كه يكي از اجزاي مهم برنامه دفاع موشكي آمريكا را تشكيل مي دهد،‌ به صورت بالقوه امكان نابودي اجسام فضايي در حال حركت از جمله ماهواره ها در اختيار دارد.

با اين حال محققان كشورمان تلاش هاي جديدي را در اين عرصه آغاز كرده اند و مدعي داشتن مقام دوم پس از ژاپن در توليد ليزرهاي پر انرژي هستند.
مركز ملي علوم و فنون ليزر(INCL) كانون تحقيق و پژوهش در چنين حوزه اي در ايران محسوب مي شود كه بنا بر اخبار خبرگزاري ها تاكنون توان توليد ليزرهايي با توان دو كيلو وات را پيدا كرده اند.

*حمله اي همانند يك تهاجم هسته اي

ايران و آمريكا دشمنان سرسختي در حوزه هاي گوناگون محسوب مي شوند، اما بايد ديد كه آيا دشمني به عرصه فضا نيز كشيده است.
ايران و آمريكا نشان داده اند كه دورترين چشم اندازها را براي منافع امنيتي خود در نظر مي‌گيرند و فضا جايي است كه حتي هم اكنون به امنيت هر دو گره خورده است.
شايد براي نشان دادن اهميت آن كافي است به سخنان يكي از اعضاي انيستيوي "رند " را در نظر بگيريم كه گفته بود: " انهدام يك ماهواره آمريكا در فضا شايد به اندازه انداختن بمب اتم بر واشنگتن مهم نباشد، اما به طور حتم مانند اصابت بمب اتم به شهري همانند گالستون است ".

http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9003093204

Offline M-ATF

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 03:46:03 AM »
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An article by Fars News Agancy in persian language:

Quote
  در صورت هرگونه تجاوز احتمالي
ماهواره‌هاي نظامي آمريكا در تيررس موشك‌هاي دوربرد ايران

خبرگزاري فارس: روند رو به رشد ايران در ساخت پرتابگرهاي قدرتمند و برنامه ايران براي فرستادن انسان به فضا بين سال هاي 2020 تا 2025 ميلادي اين هشدار را به آمريكا مي دهد كه در يك برخورد نظامي احتمالي، ماهواره هاي نظامي اين كشور از امنيت كامل برخوردار نخواهند بود.

به گزارش خبرگزاري فارس، در پاييز سال 2009 رهبر انقلاب ايران كه فرماندهي كل نيروهاي مسلح را در اين كشور بر عهده دارد، با صدور فرماني افراد جديدي را در سمت هاي فرماندهي سپاه پاسداران و ستاد مشترك نيروهاي مسلح ايران منصوب كرد.
شايد اين مسئله به خودي خود مسئله چندان مهمي محسوب نشود و تنها شامل چند جابجايي عادي در ترتيبات فرماندهي باشد، اما رهبر انقلاب براي اولين بار در احكام نظامي خودشان از عنوان نيروي "هوا-فضا " براي يگان هاي هوايي سپاه پاسداران استفاده كردند كه تبديل به نامي مرسوم براي تغيير نام اين نيروي مستقل در مجموعه يگان هاي مسلح ايران شد.
تغيير نامي كه به طور حتم تنها محدود به مكاتبات اداري نخواهد ماند و تاثيرات مهمي در ماموريت ها و اهداف اين نيرو در آينده خواهد داشت.

*يك نگاه به فضا و نيم نگاهي به آسمان

نيروي هوا- فضاي سپاه پاسداران در مجموعه نيروهاي مسلح ايران اصلي ترين كاربر موشك هاي بالستيك به عنوان مهم ترين ابزار تهاجمي در مقابل هرگونه تعرض خارجي است.
نكته اي كه سرلشگر صفوي فرمانده پيشين سپاه پاسداران و مشاور كنوني نظامي رهبر انقلاب آن را به عنوان راهكاري برگزيده در مقابل توانمندي هاي دشمنان احتمالي در بخش تهديدات هوا-پايه و ضعف هاي سخت افزاري متقابل ايران ذكر مي كند.
نظاميان ايراني كه در دوران نبرد هشت ساله با همسايه شرقي خود شاهد هدف قرارگرفتن منافع حياتي و شهرهاي پرجمعيت خود توسط موشك هاي اسكاد ساخت اتحاد جماهير شوروي بودند، پس از برقراري صلح با تمام توان شروع به توسعه زرادخانه موشك هاي بالستيك زمين پايه خود كردند.
به تدريج و با گذشت زمان ايران قدرتمندترين زرادخانه موشكي در خاورميانه را ايجاد كرد كه از لحاظ فناوري با به طور مدام در حال رشد و تكامل بود.
دستيابي به تكنولوژي ساخت موشك هاي جامد و تست اولين نسل از پرتابه هاي اين چنيني با برد بيش از دو هزار كيلومتر به نام سجيل، عملياتي شدن نسل جديدتر موشك هاي تاكتيكي به نام فاتح با برد 350 كيلومتر و همچنين تجهيز كلاهك هاي موشك سوخت مايع به سيستم هاي هدف گيري چندگانه (MVR ) بخشي از پيشرفت هاي ايران در اين بخش بوده است.
از همين رو همواره توانمندي هاي اين نيرو كه پيش از آن تنها پسوند هوايي را يدك مي كشيد، در اين بخش به هواگردهاي متعارف كه بيشتر متكي به جنگنده هاي پشتيباني نزديك SU-24 روسي و هواپيماهاي توربو پراب توكانو برزيلي است، برتري داشته است.

*اميد، پنجره ورود ايران به عصرفضا

در كنار اين توسعه برنامه فضايي ايران پيوند نزديكي با پيشرفت هاي ايران در بخش پرتابه هاي نظامي ايران دارد. ايران كه برنامه فضايي آن پيش ازانقلاب تنها محدود به ساخت مشترك ماهواره با كشورهاي خارجي بود، پس از انقلاب همزمان با توسعه موشك هاي بالستيك به احياي برنامه فضايي خود پرداخت.
اين تلاش ها در نهايت با پرتاب ماهواره بومي اميد و پرتابگري موسوم به سفير از يك پايگاه پرتاب موشك در نزديكي سمنان به نتيجه رسيد و ايران را وارد عصر فضا كرد.
هم اكنون نيز تلاش هاي ايران درعرصه فضايي با توسعه پرتابگرهاي قدرتمند تر و ساخت ماهواره هاي قدرتمند تر در زمينه هاي مخابراتي، نظامي و تحقيقاتي هم چنان ادامه دارد.

*فشار بر رگ حياتي نظامي آمريكا

ايران حتي در كوتاه مدت هم نمي تواند به تلاش هاي رقباي خود در عرصه تكنولوژي فضايي بي اعتنا بماند. تلاش آمريكا و به طور كلي غرب براي ساماندهي و فرماندهي نيروهاي خود در سرتاسرجهان به شدت متكي بر ماهواره هاي ارتباطي و مخابراتي مستقر در مدار زمين است.
اين وابستگي در دهه اول قرن بيست و يكم و ارائه مفهوم جنگ نت محور نيز به شدت افزايش پيدا كرده است. اگر در جنگ هاي قرن بيستم توانايي جهت يابي سربازان متكي به تكنيك هاي دستي و نقشه هاي كاغذي سنتي بود، در قرن بيست و يكم اين سيستم هاي مكان يابي جهاني هستند كه اين وظيفه را با دقتي باورنكردني انجام مي دهند.
اصلي ترين سامانه اي كه با ظرفيت كامل و به صورت جهاني در اين حوزه فعاليت مي كند، سيستم آمريكايي GPS است كه با 28 ماهواره فعال در مدار زمين در اختيار دارد.
البته روسيه با سيستم گلوناس و اتحاد اروپا و چين نيز با سيستم گاليله درصدد رسيدن به توانايي هايي مشابه سيستم آمريكايي در بحث جهت يابي هستند.
نيروهاي آمريكايي براي رهگيري و هدف قرار دادن نيروهاي متخاصم به شدت متكي به اين سيستم و سامانه هاي مكمل جاسوسي و مخابراتي هستند.بمب هاي آمريكايي به مدد همين سيستم قابليت هدف قرار دادن اهداف خود با دقت چند ده سانتيمتري هستند و ارتباط يگان ويژه آمريكايي با مراكز فرماندهي به مدد همين ارتباطات ممكن است.
هرگونه تخريب هدفمند در چنين سيستمي تبعات سنگيني براي نيروهاي آمريكايي و سيستم هاي هدايت و فرماندهي C4I اين كشور در پي دارد و علاوه بر اخلال در روند اجراي عمليات نظامي در صورت شدت يافتن مسئله مي تواند به فلج شدن نيروهاي آمريكايي از لحاظ تاكتيكي منجر شود.

*زره "نفوذ پذيري " كه قرار بود "نفوذ ناپذير " باشد

گرچه مراكز فرماندهي نيروهاي مسلح آمريكا مدعي ضربه ناپذيري سيستم هاي مخابراتي و نظامي فضايي خود هستند، اما يك پژوهش مستقل كه در سال 2001 از سوي آكادمي نيروي هوايي اين كشور انجام شد، بر آسيب پذيري سيستم هاي هدايت و كنترل ماهواره اين كشور و امكان اختلال در سيگنال هاي آن تاكيد داشت.
انهدام يك ماهواره هواشناسي از رده خارج از سوي ارتش آزاديبخش چين توسط يك موشك هوا به زمين زنگ خطر را براي آمريكا به صدا درآورد.
حتي كشور جنگ زده و تحت تحريمي همانند عراق نيز در جريان نبرد سال 2003 تلاش كرد تا از طريق ايجاد اختلال در گيرنده هاي GPS بمب ها و موشك هاي كروز آمريكايي، هدايت پذيري آنان را به حداقل برساند.
گرچه اين تلاش عراق به دليل كمبود امكانات به جايي نرسيد اما نشان از توجه دشمنان آمريكا نسبت به نقاط ضعف احتمالي اين كشور داشت.
همين مسئله تلاش آمريكا را براي نظامي كردن فضا دو چندان كرده است و اعتراضات ساير كشورها در خصوص مغايرت اين اقدام با قوانين بين المللي تاثير چنداني در متوقف كردن آن نداشته است. آزمايش هواپيماهاي بدون سرنشين با سرعت 24 ماخ و استقرار رادارهاي فضا پايه بخش از تلاش هاي ايالات متحده در اين راستا محسوب مي شوند.

*گزينه هاي محدود، اما تاثير گزاز

اما نيروهاي عمل كننده ايراني در اين حوزه و به خصوص نيروهاي هوا- فضاي سپاه پاسداران كه فضا در حوزه عملياتي آن قرار دارد، مي توانند با سرمايه گذاري بر راهبردهايي مشخص توان آفندي خود را به خوبي ارتقا دهند.

*هدف، ماهواره دشمن

اصلي ترين چشم انداز متناسب با توان فني ايران براي ايجاد توان پدافندي سرمايه گذاري در تسليحات انهدام ماهواره با موشك هاي بالستيك است. پرتابگرهاي ايراني مي توانند براي حمل كلاهك هاي ضد ماهواره به سرعت بهسازي شوند و براي انهدام ماهواره هاي مدار پايين استفاده شوند.
قدرتمند ترين پرتابگر ايراني موسوم به سيمرغ كه هنوز وارد خدمت نشده است، مي تواند محموله هاي سبك را تا مدارهاي كم ارتفاع ((LEO تا محدوده زير 1000 كيلومتري سطح زمين تامين كند.
اين در حالي است كه اغلب ماهواره هاي جاسوسي و مخابراتي ايالات متحده و اسراييل در مدار ژئوسنكرون در ارتفاع 36 هزار كيلومتري از سطح زمين مستقر است.
با اين حال روند رو به رشد ايران درساخت پرتابگرهاي قدرتمند و برنامه ايران براي فرستادن انسان به در فضا بين سال هاي 2020 تا 2025 ميلادي اين هشدار را به آمريكا مي دهد كه در يك برخورد نظامي احتمالي رودررو ماهواره هاي نظامي اين كشور از امنيت كامل برخوردار نخواهند بود.

*نبرد امواج در قلب فضا

ايران در يك رويكرد ميان مدت از توانايي هاي ديگري براي مقابله با توانمندي هاي فضايي آمريكا در حوزه ارتباطي برخوردار است.
يكي از اين توانايي ها ايجاد اختلال الكترو مغناطيسي در سيستم هاي الكترونيكي جرم هدف در مدار زمين است. ايران تاكنون تنها از اين توانايي در حوزه ايجاد اختلال در ماهواره هاي تلويزيوني مخالف استفاده كرد.
در يك مورد شدت امواج ارسالي بر ماهواره شبكه نايلست در جريان موج تخريبي رسانه هاي غرب در فنته سال 88 به قدري سنگين بود كه اين شبكه مجبور به خارج كردن اين ماهواره از جريان سرويس دهي براي جلوگيري از خسارات شديدتر بود.
با اين حالي هيچ ارزيابي مستقلي از توانمندي ايران در اين حوزه منتشر نشده است و به نظر مي رسد ايران نيز تاكنون از حملات اين چنيني عليه منافع آمريكا استفاده نكرده است.

*آيا جنگ ستارگان رنگ واقعيت به خود بگيرد

استفاده از نيروي نور متمركز يا ليزر درعرصه فضا سابقه به نسبت بلندي دارد. در اوج رقابت اتحاد جماهير شوروي و آمريكا در جنگ سرد استفاده از ليزر در قدرت نمايي هاي فضايي نقش مهمي را بر عهده داشت.
در برنامه بلند پروازانه رونالد ريگان رييس جمهور اسبق آمريكا براي بي اثر كردن توانمدي هاي موشكي اتحاد جماهير شوروي موسوم به جنگ ستارگان نقش اصلي برعهده ايستگاه هاي فضايي مجهز به توپ هاي ليزري بود. گرچه اين برنامه بسيار بلند پروازانه تر از آن بود كه عملي شود، اما استفاده اتحاد جماهير شوروي از اشعه ليزر براي ايجاد اختلال در برنامه شاتل چالنجر يك واقعيت است.
از سوي ديگر ليرز تاكتيكي هوابرد موسوم به (ABL ) كه يكي از اجزاي مهم برنامه دفاع موشكي آمريكا را تشكيل مي دهد،‌ به صورت بالقوه امكان نابودي اجسام فضايي در حال حركت از جمله ماهواره ها در اختيار دارد.

با اين حال محققان كشورمان تلاش هاي جديدي را در اين عرصه آغاز كرده اند و مدعي داشتن مقام دوم پس از ژاپن در توليد ليزرهاي پر انرژي هستند.
مركز ملي علوم و فنون ليزر(INCL) كانون تحقيق و پژوهش در چنين حوزه اي در ايران محسوب مي شود كه بنا بر اخبار خبرگزاري ها تاكنون توان توليد ليزرهايي با توان دو كيلو وات را پيدا كرده اند.

*حمله اي همانند يك تهاجم هسته اي

ايران و آمريكا دشمنان سرسختي در حوزه هاي گوناگون محسوب مي شوند، اما بايد ديد كه آيا دشمني به عرصه فضا نيز كشيده است.
ايران و آمريكا نشان داده اند كه دورترين چشم اندازها را براي منافع امنيتي خود در نظر مي‌گيرند و فضا جايي است كه حتي هم اكنون به امنيت هر دو گره خورده است.
شايد براي نشان دادن اهميت آن كافي است به سخنان يكي از اعضاي انيستيوي "رند " را در نظر بگيريم كه گفته بود: " انهدام يك ماهواره آمريكا در فضا شايد به اندازه انداختن بمب اتم بر واشنگتن مهم نباشد، اما به طور حتم مانند اصابت بمب اتم به شهري همانند گالستون است ".

http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9003093204

Offline M-ATF

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 03:48:28 AM »
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ecuse me, a topic about this subject already has been created, please delete this topic,

Online MO_SOBOH

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 01:11:53 PM »
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the more I see this topic the more I like it... I recommend more... excellent news!
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Exile my people en mass and call it NEW MIDDLE EAST!
Rob my resources call it, PROGRESS!
Corrupt my Leaders call it DEMOCRACY!

Offline Eagle2009

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 07:55:07 AM »
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Which is exactly why the US is developing systems like the X-37B that can be launched on a moment's notice to replace lost imaging/listening satellites and which is much more manueverable than traditional satellites allow it to perform evasive manuevers which greatly lessens the likelihood of a hit from an ASAT (since they are programed to hit a target based on a predictable path not an erratic one).
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Online MO_SOBOH

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 08:35:17 AM »
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Which is exactly why the US is developing systems like the X-37B that can be launched on a moment's notice to replace lost imaging/listening satellites and which is much more manueverable than traditional satellites allow it to perform evasive manuevers which greatly lessens the likelihood of a hit from an ASAT (since they are programed to hit a target based on a predictable path not an erratic one).


too much of a theoretical system really... ur not that advanced yet bro... and I respect u alot Eagle... but im not that stupid as well.... I guess at the end of the day well have to see about that... even u have to admit that Iran doesnt reveal too much about its self... if u know what I mean....  ;)

Offline alhadji

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 08:46:45 AM »
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Are we talking about a missile system similar to something like what the chinese employed when to it brought down one its retired satellites?
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Offline Pasdar

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 10:15:33 AM »
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Taking down military sats would be a waste of time and resources of course, taking down GPS and other such sats would be better.

Edit: Then again the GPS const are designated as military satellites too...
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 10:27:23 AM by Pasdar »

Offline Eagle2009

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 07:37:17 PM »
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MO_SOBOH,

Nothing theoretical about it actually.

The X-37B has already proven its ability to do these things. On its first spaceflight it is believed to have overflown Iran, North Korea and other "hot spots" and instead and moving in a predictable orbit like most spy satellites it moved in a very erratic one, changing its trajectory as it went. All known ASATs every designed are designed to hit a target with a predictable path therefore the survivability of the X-37B is much greater than traditional spy satellites. Add to that the fact it is reusable means they are going to be fairly cheap compared to the massive spy satellites that are in orbit now. They won't be quite as capable but will likely have features such as modular payload to allow them to operate many difference functions (Imagery, Synthetic Aperture Radar, ELINT, etc.). So clearly the technology is already existant.

Alhadji,

I personally think so. A ballistic missile based ASAT is the most logical for Iran to pursue at this time since they aren't known to have any airborne system capable of being modified for this task. Strangely enough the idea of an Iranian ASAT is not really news to many military buffs who first brought up the idea when Iran first tested the Sejil missile. The Sejil is the perfect missile in Iran's inventory today for developing an ASAT. It would require the adding of a third stage and the development of a very advanced seeker.

Pasdar,

Except as we have discussed in past, taking out GPS is much more difficult task then it sounds.
1.   Launcher- To reach the needed orbits for MEO, the launcher for the ASAT will have to be fairly large, likely having to be launched from a space port not a mobile system (like their Chinese SC-19ASAT). So it will be immediately noticed.
2.   Time- The time it would take for such an ASAT to reach its target will likely be long enough for the targeted satellite to maneuver (assuming of course it KNOWS it’s being targeted, a big if).
3.   Numbers- GPS consists of 24 operational satellites plus 6 “spare’ satellites. So even if you knock out a few, there are satellites already in orbit to replace them and do so very quickly (instead of having to wait for new ones to be built and launched). So to take out GPS would require taking out a large number of them, say 12 to truly cripple the system. The problem with this is only a few are going to be in range over Iran to hit at a time, and they will figure out what is happening and take action.

Now there are some solutions to these problems. For example one could disguise an ASAT as a satellite launch. This could largely negate the first two problems I laid out but I see no solution for solving the third problem.
To me, Iran would spend its money more wisely on developing more long range GPS jamming systems since we know they have short range jammers already. These will effective limit the ability of the US to not only use JDAM like weapons but also force combat aircraft to use backup navigation systems (which they are equipped with just in case GPS craps out but they aren’t as accurate).

ASATs for taking out “spy satellites” however are a worthwhile effort to me because they are likely not the only ones working on ASATs in the region. Though I have seen no real evidence they are doing so, Israel has the technology today to develop an air-launched ASAT not unlike the ASM-135 developed and abandoned by the US in the 80’s based on their Blue Sparrow Ballistic Missile Decoy. It would be as simple as mating the Arrow II/III’s seeker to the Blue Sparrow missile body. And considering how large Israel’s space based assets are getting these days, Iran would be foolish not to develop LEO ASATs in case of war with Israel since they will likely not hesitate to take out any Iranian satellites they feel are threatening their security in time of war.

Offline Pasdar

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2011, 08:58:54 AM »
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Pasdar,

Except as we have discussed in past, taking out GPS is much more difficult task then it sounds.
1.   Launcher- To reach the needed orbits for MEO, the launcher for the ASAT will have to be fairly large, likely having to be launched from a space port not a mobile system (like their Chinese SC-19ASAT). So it will be immediately noticed.
2.   Time- The time it would take for such an ASAT to reach its target will likely be long enough for the targeted satellite to maneuver (assuming of course it KNOWS it’s being targeted, a big if).
3.   Numbers- GPS consists of 24 operational satellites plus 6 “spare’ satellites. So even if you knock out a few, there are satellites already in orbit to replace them and do so very quickly (instead of having to wait for new ones to be built and launched). So to take out GPS would require taking out a large number of them, say 12 to truly cripple the system. The problem with this is only a few are going to be in range over Iran to hit at a time, and they will figure out what is happening and take action.

Now there are some solutions to these problems. For example one could disguise an ASAT as a satellite launch. This could largely negate the first two problems I laid out but I see no solution for solving the third problem.
To me, Iran would spend its money more wisely on developing more long range GPS jamming systems since we know they have short range jammers already. These will effective limit the ability of the US to not only use JDAM like weapons but also force combat aircraft to use backup navigation systems (which they are equipped with just in case GPS craps out but they aren’t as accurate).

ASATs for taking out “spy satellites” however are a worthwhile effort to me because they are likely not the only ones working on ASATs in the region. Though I have seen no real evidence they are doing so, Israel has the technology today to develop an air-launched ASAT not unlike the ASM-135 developed and abandoned by the US in the 80’s based on their Blue Sparrow Ballistic Missile Decoy. It would be as simple as mating the Arrow II/III’s seeker to the Blue Sparrow missile body. And considering how large Israel’s space based assets are getting these days, Iran would be foolish not to develop LEO ASATs in case of war with Israel since they will likely not hesitate to take out any Iranian satellites they feel are threatening their security in time of war.
1) It being noticed or not is irrelevant. The damage Iran would cause by taking down even one GPS sat would be significantly more valuable than bombarding even all U.S. military bases around Iran. It is also the psychological equivalent of Iran bombing U.S. mainland, and a military strategic advantage comparable to an EMP nuclear blast on top of US.
2) This isn't "enemy of the states" movie where satellites seem to move around as though they're spaceships turning around all the time. Satellites are not made to do any non-housekeeping maneuvers, unless they're specifically built to do that particular thing (I can assure you that the GPS sats will not "maneuver" anywhere after placement, lol). It will be unable to do anything, even if they know it a week before. The only thing that could potentially save it from the first missile attack, is a large angle plane change. Not only are they not built to make plane changes, but even if they potentially could, it would be a one time thing, the change would not be large enough to save it. Let me add that the plane change, even by a half degree is the most expensive and life reducing maneuver available.
3) The reserve satellites are already in the orbits and being used, that is their function as reserve. They're not waiting in some kind of transfer orbit, waiting to receive a command to get in place, like many people think. The GPS satellites move in their designated planes, they can't go outside of that. Meaning, the same satellites pass the middle-east all the time. The other ones are for other areas. Taking out 11 satellites will make them unable to see anything anymore in that region, though I think they should all be taken out to wreak some real havoc, and after that the other military satellites.

For Iran to take down all of GPS and only then other satllites is easilly worth way more than a billion for Iran. Though the cost will not get anywhere near that. Plus, multiple satellites can be taken down with a single missile to reduce costs even more... but that requires some new tech to be developed.

Though of course, Iran should also use all other tech to jam all other signals.

Offline comandantecarlos

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2011, 12:09:50 PM »
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The satellites, jamming much more energy should be invested. The war in almost all circumstances the system communicates via satellites.
This is also important because of the expected spread of UAV technology in military aviation.

Offline Eagle2009

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2011, 07:01:56 PM »
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Pasdar,

1. I couldn't disagree more. Taking one satellite means nothing. The loss of a single satellite would have little effect on the systems operations. The accuracy of GPS as a whole would be slightly degraded but only just. Further detection is very relevant. IF they can figure out which satellite will be hit they can switch it off and "switch-on" one of the reserve satellites, minimizes the damage done significantly.
2. Agreed, though it should be noted most sources agree Spy Satellites are capable of non-maintainence manuevers.
3. But you are missing the point. I never said those satellites were in another orbit. They are in orbit but they are not technically linked to the network to provide accuracy as the other 24 are. They are there incase one or more active satellites fails for whatever reason. The back-up satellites are then linked to the others to help make up for the loss of the others.

And I guarantee any effort by any nation to develop a MEO or GEO ASAT will cause well into the BILLIONS. Developing a relatively simple LEO ASAT will easily cost that much (as American, Soviet, and Chinese programs have proved). The launcher needed for such a weapon alone will cost a fortune to develop since such a launcher will have to be much more powerful than anything Iran has now. Think of this way, the Chinese SC-19 ASAT is the size of an ICBM  and can only hit targets in LEO. Now imagine how much larger the launcher would need to be to carry a weapon to MEO or GEO orbit. Not to mention technologically speaking the SC-19 is decades ahead of Iran in terms of rocket technology. The needed launcher would be unlikely to be mobile at all which means once you fire the weapon the enemy will know exactly where it came from and that launch site will be destroyed.

So I stand by my point, an ASAT for targetting MEO and GEO satellites if completely impractical and is likely nearly impossible with current space technology even by the world's leading space powers.

Offline Eagle2009

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2011, 08:32:16 PM »
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For the moment, if you will all indulge me, I would like to change the direction of this conversation a bit. I believe I have focused too much on conventional ASAT methods and have ignored unconventional ones.

There is another possibility that I alluded to before. The idea of using a satellite as a weapon turns out not to be far off. The threat of so-called "Micro-Satellites" largely explains this threat. The Chinese have seriously looked into this idea and have even launched such a small satellite from their manned spacecraft several years ago that came dangerously close to the International Space Station.

Here's how they work,
1. Micro-Satellites- There is no real definition, but for argument sakes less say any satellite weighing just 50kg or less since that would be small enough to possibly be missed by space tracking.
2. Micro-Satellite is launched into orbit, either attached to another spacecraft (such as the Chinese BX-1 "parasite" satellite) or by a SLV of its own.
3. Even though they are quite small, they are large enough and moving fast enough in orbit to cause catastrophic damage to any spacecraft in orbit.
4. Technology exists today that allows even very small satellites to be very maneuverable, far more so than larger satellites.

The Chinese BX-1 is the perfect example of such a system. The satellite weighed just 40kg (not much heavier than the Omid and smaller than the Mesbah) and used an Ammonia-gas propulsion system. By “piggy-backing” on another spacecraft the BX-1 went un-noticed until it was released by the Shenzhou 7. A similar strategy could be used by Iran since they are already building satellites of appropriate size and is even developing a small one with some kind of propulsion system.

Now the difference is of course, Iran is launching these small satellites by themselves which means unlike the BX-1 they will be noticed and tracked making them somewhat less useful. However if they are fitted with a proper propulsion system like the BX-1 it could be maneuverable enough to make tracking them more difficult.

Another question is how well could this Micro-Satellite approach work with targets in GEO and MEO? The risk is the same, small and highly maneuverable satellites aimed at much larger and less maneuverable targets. The trick is getting them up there. Traditionally speaking, an SLV can only carry about 1/3 of its LEO payload to GEO. So to reach targets in MEO or GEO, the launcher for such Micro-Satellites will likely need to have a LEO payload in the range of 150-200kg to carry a 50kg or so payload. And preferably the SLV needs to be more mobile than say the Simorgh and more like the Chinese KT-2 (not the KT-1 since it has a very small LEO payload) which is conveniently the same vehicle it’s believed their SC-19 ASAT is based on. 

Offline Eagle2009

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2011, 03:13:05 AM »
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However there is still one HUGE problem with any MEO ASAT design: Collateral damage.

By the end of the decade, there will be three complete sets of Satellite Navigation satellite constellations in MEO, with a fourth one being assembled (GALILEO): GPS, GLONASS, BEIDOU-2.

The destruction of even one GPS satellite will create many thousands of trackable pieces of debris (anything larger than a golf ball is considered trackable) just as the Chinese ASAT test did in 2007. In fact that test created over 4000 pieces of trackable debris, most of which is still in orbit today (just missing the civilian ISS a few months ago). Now eventually, because this debris is in LEO, they will burn up in the atmosphere in time.

But a similar size debris field in MEO will likely remain in orbit for far longer putting all satellites in the region in danger possible for decades.

The odds of the this debris hitting a non-American satellite I think is very high and the more satellites are hit, the odds of collateral damage will increased greatly. And the Russians and Chinese will likely be non-too pleased if a few of their very expensive satellites are damaged or even destroyed by debris created by an Iranian attack on GPS.

Further, while neither of these countries is as dependent on their SatNav as the US is now, they likely will be by the end of the decade and this reliance will only increase with time. For example all new pieces of Russian military equipment now comes standard with GLONASS (including Ships, Aircraft, Ground forces, and ballistic missiles). The Chinese also are investing a good deal of money in SatNav based weapon systems and likely would not be very happy if their systems were hit. While they may not mind the US GPS being crippled or damaged, in the long run the risk of collateral damage that will possibly last a decade will likely override any such feelings.

I personally believe this is exactly why the idea of MEO satellites has never been talked about much. The same is true of trying to take out GEO satellites. The major powers are very reliant to them and the idea of developing weapons to take them out risks everyones's satellites not just the enemies.

Offline husseinibnali

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2011, 03:17:50 AM »
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Translation of the main points please.

Offline Pasdar

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2011, 08:42:03 AM »
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Pasdar,

1. I couldn't disagree more. Taking one satellite means nothing. The loss of a single satellite would have little effect on the systems operations. The accuracy of GPS as a whole would be slightly degraded but only just. Further detection is very relevant. IF they can figure out which satellite will be hit they can switch it off and "switch-on" one of the reserve satellites, minimizes the damage done significantly.
2. Agreed, though it should be noted most sources agree Spy Satellites are capable of non-maintainence manuevers.
3. But you are missing the point. I never said those satellites were in another orbit. They are in orbit but they are not technically linked to the network to provide accuracy as the other 24 are. They are there incase one or more active satellites fails for whatever reason. The back-up satellites are then linked to the others to help make up for the loss of the others.

And I guarantee any effort by any nation to develop a MEO or GEO ASAT will cause well into the BILLIONS. Developing a relatively simple LEO ASAT will easily cost that much (as American, Soviet, and Chinese programs have proved). The launcher needed for such a weapon alone will cost a fortune to develop since such a launcher will have to be much more powerful than anything Iran has now. Think of this way, the Chinese SC-19 ASAT is the size of an ICBM  and can only hit targets in LEO. Now imagine how much larger the launcher would need to be to carry a weapon to MEO or GEO orbit. Not to mention technologically speaking the SC-19 is decades ahead of Iran in terms of rocket technology. The needed launcher would be unlikely to be mobile at all which means once you fire the weapon the enemy will know exactly where it came from and that launch site will be destroyed.

So I stand by my point, an ASAT for targetting MEO and GEO satellites if completely impractical and is likely nearly impossible with current space technology even by the world's leading space powers.
1) Yes, it's a two point statement that got mixed up. I meant taking out one sat would be the psychological equiv of attacking US. and taking them all out would be like nuclear EMP on US.
2) So the US claims. Though I find it doubtful they could avoid a missile. There is just so much maneuvers a satellite could make. We're not talking about twists and turns here, you'd really need a high angle plane change maneuver, and they are extremely expensive for a reason. That's why they're avoided as much as possible, even by making new space centers to launch from.

Developing the technology is of course expensive, but once it goes in production, it's another matter. Iran will have to invest this money to better it's space. An ASAT is basically a rocket that is made to make a cheap & crude equivalent of a sat rendezvous. It's dual use suits us well financially.

Offline YMJ

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2011, 10:13:47 AM »
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What happens if you detonate a small EPM near a satellite?
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Offline Eagle2009

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2011, 04:52:15 AM »
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Pasdar,

I agree the psychological effect is there but technically speaking the loss of just a few satellites will not disrupt the overall system that much. The accuracy will fall a bit but the system will remain intact unlike a large number of satellites are taking out. The more taken out the greater the collateral damage problem I mentioned before to friendly nation's navigational satellites.

Also I agree that while LEO satellites can likely manuever better than their higher orbit counterparts, they also have much less time to react since it takes just minutes for an modest ASAT to reach LEO. As I said, this is likely why the X-37B is being developed, to replace damaged satellite assets in LEO quickly and be able to perform erratic orbital manuevers to making an intercept more difficult.

YMJ,

That's certainly a possibility though for any good performance it will have to be a nuclear weapon to produce the EMP or else it's range of damage would be very limited.

However unless this nuclear explosion was quite large, such a weapon would probably be limited to LEO use since the distance between satellites in GEO and MEO could limit how many satellites are actually affected. Also the problem of collateral damage to friendly satellites is even more present than before.

There is another problem too. Even though the nuclear weapon is being used for a more "non-violent" EMP, the enemy will likely respond in kind by detonating a nuclear weapon directly OVER Iran creating an EMP, which would cripple the economy, government functions, and the military. It's why the US always feared the Soviets using Thermonuclear weapons for EMP, even more than them actually hitting the ground because while the weapon would kill millions, the damage of the EMP was more widespread and devastating in the short term. In fact since the late 70's the US has tested all new communication equipment to be as resilent to EMP damage as possible using current technology.

Offline YMJ

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2011, 06:55:05 AM »
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There is another problem too. Even though the nuclear weapon is being used for a more "non-violent" EMP, the enemy will likely respond in kind by detonating a nuclear weapon directly OVER Iran creating an EMP, which would cripple the economy, government functions, and the military. It's why the US always feared the Soviets using Thermonuclear weapons for EMP, even more than them actually hitting the ground because while the weapon would kill millions, the damage of the EMP was more widespread and devastating in the short term. In fact since the late 70's the US has tested all new communication equipment to be as resilent to EMP damage as possible using current technology.

I think if you take out US communication systems it would be MUCH MUCH more damaging to their economy than Irans.


Irans economy is not based on very high level of communication and GPS.

Considering Amerikkkas economic state and its reliance on technology, especially satellites, it would cripple it beyond repair.

While Iran won't be hurt as much.

You take out American satellites, you have taken out their eyes ears and mouth. Essentially America becomes crippled.

Offline Pasdar

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2011, 10:21:38 AM »
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Taking out the GPS should be number one priority for Iran in case of war, and after that any other military satellite that passes Iranian space. The U.S. military relies so much on it, and almost all of their training without GPS and such is focused on ground forces. I think the U.S. air force has little to no training in finding targets with magnetic compass, and quite definitely hasn't done so in real military environment. They'd be forced to rely on magnetic compasses in hostile air space and with no familiarity with the mountainous land of Iran.

The truth of the matter is, the U.S. has a superior military in terms of hardware, training and organization, and their air force is by far their greatest asset. Their land forces, while very well trained, would be raped sideways in Iran. After their Air force their greatest assets are their navy and missiles from their navy ships. So Iran needs to focus on these two assets. They need to level to playing field or take them down even further.

Taking out the GPS would severely reduce U.S. air force capability and also really harm the U.S. navy. After that Iran needs to focus on a conventional war against the air force and asymmetric warfare against ground forces abroad and navy. Prime targets are their supply depots, docks, etc, wherever they are.

Offline parthenon

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2011, 11:11:29 AM »
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I agree with Eagle2k9 that you need to avoid "going nuclear" but he dismissed the effects of Non-Nuclear EMP's (NNEMP's), which I overlooked completely as another "bloodless" retaliatory option... brilliant find!! IMO it would certainly be worth exhausting this NNEMP option a bit further (as a Sejil or Qiam warhead?). BTW, does Iran already have a anti-EMP unit like the anti-cyberwar unit they recently established (with STUXNET in mind, better late than never I would say).

Contrary to E2k9 I do think massive indiscriminate damage to MEO (GEO) sats won't matter much because it's meant as a penultimate DOOMSDAY DEVICE (DD) anyway (the ultimate DD being nuclear of course), in other words: if Medvedev, China etc. manage to be fooled once again by a "Libya"-like O2P (Obligation to Pillage... sorry, to "Protect") UNSC resolution against Iran, they just don't deserve any better.
Besides, he still didn't care to reply to my idea of a bunker-based megawatt sat-killing LASER.

There's one big problem with deterrence (be it retaliation by a massive salvo of BM's or by a DD):
1) on the one hand you'll want to convince an enemy you will retaliate immediately like a mad dog
2) on the other hand this might be exactly the excuse the enemy is waiting for to counter-retaliate with a "crushing" response (even nuclear because the US does not exclude a "first strike" with nukes against NPT-"breachers" like Iran).
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Offline Eagle2009

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2011, 08:21:18 PM »
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YMJ,

Except EMPs don’t just fry communication equipment, I was just using that as an example. Anything that use modern (70's to now) computer technology (i.e. Solid-state electronics) will vulnerable to EMP blasts.

So while an nuclear-powered EMP could take out GPS or Communication satellites (possibly both in one shot depending on yield of nuclear warhead), an American Nuclear-EMP detonated over Iran would cripple most modern electronics within Iran. For example most modern oil refineries rely on such technology, television, radio, even things like street lights will damaged. The only factors that can change the level of damage are the blast yield and detonation height. If Iran's oil refineries are brought to a grinding halt, so too does that major section of the economy.  So as I said, while a nuclear-EMP will definitely seriously damage any US satellites in range, the likely response will be to detonate an EMP directly over Iran, and I believe the damage to Iran would be much more significant. Just imagine how long it would take to replace all the electronics destroyed and then add the money and time needed to develop EMP-resistant materials as both the US and Russians did starting from the late 70’s on. The later Iran should be working on now at the very least for their military so it’s communications and command systems can survive a EMP.

Taking out communication satellites will cause all kinds of problems in the US but it depends on how many are damaged. Cell phones will be hard to use, not to mention satellite TV and other space-based technologies. However because that EMP was detonated in space the EMP will not damage electronics directly in the US because the atmosphere will disburse the EMP.

Parthenon,

I actually discussed non-nuclear EMPs some years ago in a different thread and one problem comes to mind when using them: range. Because they are non-nuclear in nature, their range is much much inferior. For example most agree an EMP warhead fitted to a Tomahawk Cruise missile likely only has a range of maybe a few hundred yards. As an ASAT (which is what we are discussing in the first place), a non-nuclear EMP would only work if you get the object carrying the EMP very close to its target and at that point you might as well just hit the damn thing then waste the money on non-nuclear EMPs (which are believed to be pretty costly to design and test).

Also any US attack on Iran will NEVER have UNSC approval I can almost guarantee that. The US will act alone with means the collateral damage I discussed will be completely unwarranted and ironically THEN Russia and China may feel differently about attacking Iran because of the likelihood of collateral damage to their satellites. The idea of a Libya-like UN action in Iran is highly unlikely. And even if it did happen I don’t see the Chinese NOT vetoing it. Libya was of little interest to the Chinese as long as the oil was guaranteed to flow (which is why they have suddenly sent their Foreign Ministry to meet with Libyan Rebels). Iran however is not just a sources of energy for them (a major source I may add), but Iran is strategically important to China and while they can’t necessarily stop an unilateral US attack on Iran, they will do everything in their power to stop any “official” UN effort against Iran.

Also I don’t even remember reading anything about a “bunker-busting” laser so I have no idea what you are talking about to be honest.

Pasdar,

Indeed the reliance on GPS is very true. In fact this reliance is why the US has for some years been working to perfect a ground-based back-up navigational and communication systems so the United States itself can survive the loss of much needed satellites and incase of EMP detonation. These projects are however limited to protecting government and military functions not civilian (to make sure the US isn’t too vulnerable at home in case of such scenarios, though force abroad will be in much worse shape). However, in the short term, the US could sign an agreement with the EU to use the GALILEO system as a replacement, which they will do for a good price (just as we do for letting them use military grade GPS). And no doubt the satellites damaged will be replaced and such an attack will drive the US to develop more maneuverable and survivable satellites (in fact DARPA has been working on the idea of a back-up satellites systems, both communication and navigation for several years now and knowing DARPA they have likely already tested something..). So at least somebody in the US command knows of the danger.

Offline Numbers

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2011, 09:39:31 AM »
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Besides, he still didn't care to reply to my idea of a bunker-based megawatt sat-killing LASER.

to parthenon:

If you have continuous beam 100 kW (kilo Watt) laser, you can cut enemy satellite in half.

Except, you need laser mounted on large cargo truck that can change locations in order to be exactly under the satellite orbit. Bunker based laser will not work as most satellites have different orbits.

For example, Northern Iran orbit is not the same as Southern Iran orbit. So you need mobile laser to be exactly under satellite orbit, in order to hit that satellite.

Offline YMJ

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2011, 11:54:04 AM »
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Wouldn't that also effect their own equipments in Iraq and Afghanistan?

I still think the US would be much more effected than Iran if a scenario like you mentioned occurs.

As they say, the bigger you are the harder you fall.

Offline parthenon

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Re: U.S. military satellites within range of Iran's missiles
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2011, 11:58:36 AM »
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@Numbers
I assume you're referring to LEO (and MEO) sats. I suppose you could target the LEO ones with ASAT missiles if a (semi-)stationary Laser is a problem but the GEO's could be targeted with "my" bunker-BASED megawatt Laser.


@E2k9
China hardly ever casts a veto without Russia. Exceptions are against Macedonia and Guatemala just to frustrate their relations with the UN because they still recognize Taiwan and in 1972 in favor of Pakistan. Their support for Pakistan is ironclad and when offered a bargain to salvage this (almost) failed (and recently mortally embarrassed) state in exchange for dumping Iran at the UNSC, I bet they won't hesitate for a second.
Besides, China's oil dependence on Iran is surprisingly low: just 12% and just over 1% of world oil production!
I suppose Medvedev would be a tad more motivated to prevent the West from getting hold of the "Persian Corridor" for fear of losing his gas transportation "monopoly" to Europe, if he weren't the stupid git that he is.

As to your remark "Also I don’t even remember reading anything about a 'bunker-busting' laser so I have no idea what you are talking about to be honest." I would like to point out that I wrote "bunker-BASED" and further refer to

http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=8469.msg76155#msg76155

 

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