Author Topic: Iranian Navy (Read 41711 times)

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2010, 10:05:08 PM »

SSK is the universal hull classification for Diesel Attack submarines which Iran's KILOs belong to...SSI is today largely used to classify Small submarines or Midget Subs...The SSC is also sometimes used for such class of submarines (though in US Navy this is a designation for Small Coastal patrol submarines but was discontinued in use many decades ago). Iran's Ghadir and Nahang would likely fall under those classifications...The Ghadir is very similar in appearance to N. Korea's P-4 class midget sub though it was originally built for Spec. Ops while Iran clearly modified it to carry 2 torpedo tubes and redesigned the propeller section (replacing the rather unusual design N. Korea used with a more modern Assymetrical skewed propeller design). The Nahang however is very much a unique and 100% Iranian design and appears to likely be a testbed or sorts...It has a somewhat Tear-drop hull design and is likely at least twice the Ghadir's displacement but isn't armed with any internal torpedo tubes and appears to be capable or carrying mines/torpedos externally...

Shirazi · « **Reply #26 on:** March 19, 2010, 10:32:42 PM »

Oh i see, Kermanshahi says Iran has 2-3 SSI Kilos in reserve and i was wondering what he meant by it.

Quote

2-3 SSI Kilo class (in reserve as of 2007, being brought in service)

Could he be referring to the improved Kilo submarines?

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 19, 2010, 10:43:57 PM »

There is no proof Iran has received anymore than just the 3 Type 877EKM they received in the 90's...However Iran has been overhaulling and repairing its KILOs as of late..But some sources on the net (like Globalsecurity.org) don't seem to use the classifications correctly so that could explain the confusing designations. To be honest, Iran doesn't need anymore Kilos...such submarines are not well suited for the Persian Gulf (though it does have a few deep spots) and are much better suited for the Gulf of Oman and Arabian Sea and 3 submarines is a good force...Iran seems to focusing on the designing a smaller patrol submarine to patrol the Gulf...Though should Iran get the chance I would bet they were contract the Russians to modernize their Kilos to a standard similar to the more modern Type 636 class which is quieter, better armed, and has more modern sensors.

JohnnyTurk · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2010, 01:00:43 AM »

Hello everyone.

Can one of the more knowledgable brothers on here please go here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234974216-the-destroyer-jamaran/page__st__25

And take care of this douchebag:

Quote

Wow, it only took ten years to build a copy of a 30-year old frigate (not a destroyer, I'm afraid). A surface to air missile system which was probably poached from another Iranian naval vessel. Chinese anti-ship missiles which hit the right target about 50% of the time. An ops room that looks like a '70s store cupboard with cast-off PCs. Yes, that's really impressive.

Thank you

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 20, 2010, 01:20:14 AM »

His description is a bit harsh...But not entirey incorrect..The Jamaran is clearly still very much based on the Vosper Mk5 Light Patrol frigate first launched in 1969 (though they also obviously redesigned to aft of the ship) but regardless they are no real improvements in the otherall design of the vessel (this excludes weapons systems)..There are no vessels of this size today being built that don't incorporate a good deal of stealth tech and therefore the vessel is a bit out of date already...And its very possible Iran merely took the SM-1 launchers off their retired destroyers and fitted them to the Jamaran (though I doubt the missiles could be that old for safety and reliability reasons) just as they were done to at least one Kaman class..But I haven't seen anyone on the net say the Jamaran is capable of taking on any vessel in the Gulf either so being so harsh towards Iran's work on it is very crude...This is Iran's first decent sized surface combatant and its very difficult and very expensive to go from building no large surface combatants to some like Israel's Saar-5 or the UAEs new corvette class..Its just not realistic so any nation to do that so quickly...For it's intended role the Jamaran is modern enough..For now..but to be honest Iran does need to design a more modern vessel very soon..Though I would bet Iranian engineers are working on such a thing that is purely my speculation...

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 20, 2010, 01:54:29 AM »

I have thought about this quite a bit...and These are some improvements Iran can likely make to the current Jamaran vessels and some ideas I have for realistic aspects for a future model of the Mowj class (Mowj-2 perhaps?) NOTE: this is purely speculative!

Mowj Class-Possible Upgrades

AshM- Increase to total number of Anti-shipping missiles from 4 to 8 by developing Quad launchers (which have surprisely havent been seen yet in Iran).
Guns- Possible upgrade of Fajr-27 to allow it to be controlled not just by radar but by Electro-Optic system as seen in Upgraded Bayandor class corvettes.
- Replace single barrelled manned Fath 40 system with either a turreted Twin 40mm system or Twin 35mm System (similar to original AA mount on the Alvands)

Possible Aspects for Future Mowj class:
Dimensions- Likely would be lengthened by 8-10 meters
Displacement- Likely to increase to somewhere between 1800-2000tons
AshM- at least 8 Medium-Long range missiles
Guns- Improved Fajr-27 variant with increased rate of fire to at least 100 rounds/min (compared to the current 85 rounds/min) possibly with a stealthy cupola
- At least one twin AA fully automated gun system or similar to Breda/Dardo or Twin 35mm if Foreign system like AK-630 or Type 730 is available
ASW- Retains two Triple Torpedo systems
SAM- Replace Standard missile with either 6 or 8 celled Shahab Thageb system (which could be upgraded to FM-90 standard) fitted on the stepped structure below the bridge with an semi-automatic or automatic loading system underdeck with at least 2 reloads (for a total of at least 18 missiles) which like the HQ-7 should be capable of being guided by Radar, Electro Optic, or Infared depending on situation.
Structure- Should include at least some sloped sides, a solid Radar mast (whose skin should be made out of Fiberglass/CarbonFiber) and the superstructure should be streamlined to increase space and improve radar cross section.
Aviation- Include a Helicopter Hangar to allow space for Bell 212 or Z-9 medium helos
Radar- Should include a 3D Air search system and include Surface search system with at least a 120-150km range to allow the use of C-802/Noor to its fullest range
Electronics- Should include a full set of Electro Optic and FLIR systems for better survellience

Overall: Such a design would end of looking like the Russian Gepard class frigate or a smaller version of Pakistan's F-22P frigates and would be modern enough and powerful enough to defend Iran's waters from the navies of the Gulf and even project power over fairly good distances.

JohnnyTurk · « **Reply #31 on:** March 20, 2010, 02:36:29 AM »

Eagle,

But ultimately, how many countries can produce their own destroyers? Aren't Israeli "Saar" class corvettes German-made?

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 20, 2010, 03:15:08 AM »

Well Technically the Jamaran isn't a destroyer by foreign standards...In todays naval world the Jamaran would actually classifiy as a small Frigate or large corvette...But indeed your point is still valid..But there are a decent number of nations that can build this size of vessel (including USA, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, Turkey-building one now, India, Spain, Portugal)..Israel's Sa'ar 5 were actually built by USA to Israeli specs so you're right no nation in the middle east can build such vessels (other than Turkey)..at least design them anyway...the UAE's new corvettes are being built in Abu Dubai but were designed abroad.

Shirazi · « **Reply #33 on:** April 04, 2010, 04:13:05 PM »

How much of Turkeys ships are actually designed and built by Turkey? As far as i can see, all of their radars, fire control system and weapon systems are either from America or Europe.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 04, 2010, 09:47:32 PM »

The same could be said for the Jamaran could it not? The Fajr 27 is a clone of the OTO 76, the Noor is a copy/indigenous version of C-802, the Fath 40 is clone of Bofors 40, the radar appears identical to AWS-1 and most the hull design is identical to the Vosper Mk 5 (the helipad being the exception of course)...

The new Turkish corvettes and Frigates they are building now are completely designed in Turkey as far as I know (hull and physical design mind you) and are much stealthier than the Jamaran and will be similar to German MEKO100 in overall capability and while the weapons will likely be foreign, much of its electronics includin the radar will be home-built. Their ships arent clearly based on any foreign design. Not only that you have to remember Turkey has been building Missile boats for over a decade now (German designs though but shows they can built many ships very quickly).

Here is a pic of the Milgem Corvette under contruction, it is a design Iran should study carefully since it isnt much larger than the Jamaran (99 meters long and 2000 ton est. displacement):

Shirazi · « **Reply #35 on:** April 04, 2010, 09:51:05 PM »

Yes the same thing could be said about Iran. I just wanted some info on how much of it is going to be built in Turkey. How much of the electronics are Turkish?

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 04, 2010, 09:54:13 PM »

The main radar systems will actually be made in Turkey by ASELSAN (I edited by earlier post to include that lol). Pretty much only the Weapon systems will be foreign, even the Fire Control systems will be made in Turkey. Though Turkish companies do work with Foreign companies, their systems are made in Turkey allowing them to reduce the cost of the vessel.

Pasdar · « **Reply #37 on:** April 05, 2010, 08:59:57 AM »

Its unlikely really. They don't have the industry for such things. Countries like Iran that push to make everything indigenously are a rare few (USA, Russia, China). These days the US buys many things abroad though. I think its because the US economy is collapsing, so they're forced to buy in stuff made from cheaper labour (e.g. buying rocket engines from Russia, electronics from Taiwan, etc). The rest (EU, etc) buys the parts, how small these parts are depends on their expertise and how unique the new product is (whether it requires very different equipment). E.g.: EU high tech companies making something unique might go as small as buying micro processors and what now to make a new type of radio themselves (just an example), while others generally buy the whole radio, made in blahblah, and install that in their craft. Then there are those that might go with boards that have specific functions, they would combine that in their design, etc.

So again, I don't know what you mean with indigenously made, but they don't have the industry to build anything from scratch. With their economy it would be ill advised too.

planeman · « **Reply #38 on:** June 14, 2010, 03:19:21 AM »

Quote from: Kermanshahi on January 16, 2010, 02:24:30 PM

1 Qaaem Class (under construction) - Iranian made

Any news on the Qaaem?

FYI it's a Russian design not Iranian; Project 550 sub. About 600 tons. Related the Piranya.

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 14, 2010, 03:40:11 AM »

You are saying the Qaem is based on a Russian design? I find that interesting and I am a lil skeptical because the two models we've seen of future Iranian Subs (both very different from each other) dont have many exclusively Russian Features. The more well known model (which I believe Catsoo first posted years ago) is an interesting but a bit futuristic design considering Iran's current experience with Submarines. The other model (shown a few years ago) is of an older design and looks somewhat similar to the German Type 209. I could be wrong of course and the two models could be nothing but I never heard of the Qaem being based on a Russian Design, could you provide us with some proof of this?

planeman · « **Reply #40 on:** June 14, 2010, 03:55:03 AM »

It's the futuristic one Catsoo posted I'm referring to. I didn't recognise it as Russian either, but someone more knowledgeable pointed it out. The model is clearly of the Malakhit Design Bureau P-550. It's hard to find on the web but it's the top one here http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=146225&d=1162037098

Eagle2009 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 14, 2010, 03:59:16 AM »

What do ya know..I am wrong lol Kinda anyway. After some research, the First model of a future Iranian Submarine seen several years ago (which many have assumed is the Qaem, I have not) does indeed look very similar the P-550 Russian small coastal submarines. The dead giveaway was the tail and propeller design (nearly Identical). There isnt much info on said submarine, merely that is a Russian Development project and I found a online catelog showing a illustration and info. I am going to post the info I found on a more related topic here in the Navy Section, but I have to thank Planeman for his post! I only stress that we don't know for sure that the said model is indeed the Qaem (though the fact the pics surfaced at the same time as it was first talked about in the news is convincing) but regardless many thanks Planeman!

goedzo123 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 27, 2010, 03:37:04 PM »

nice pictures keep them coming

AminCo · « **Reply #43 on:** July 28, 2010, 12:36:59 PM »

I found some 3D Design of Iranian Submarine or those that Iran have.
All Credit goes to "TLAM Strike" from below site:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=148035

Yugo class midget submarine

Iranian midget sub armed with a single torpedo

Ghadir class

Qeesem class

AminCo · « **Reply #44 on:** August 23, 2010, 10:55:00 PM »

While I was thinking about this new fast missile boat Zolfiqar, I remember about another fast missile boat also called with the same name!!!!!!

see below
Introducing 12 Zolfaqhar class speedboats to its naval fleet = ذوالفقار

the topic:
http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=5004.0
Video:


Iran Zulfiqar vessels (Fast boat) in the service	Small \| Large

other one
Iran Equips High-Speed Zolfaqar Vessel with Cruise Missiles = ذوالفقار

the topic:
http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=5278.0
Videos:


Iran Zulfiqar and Serag Speed Boat Product Line 01	Small \| Large


Iran Zulfiqar vessel in Action 02	Small \| Large


Iran Zulfiqar and Serag Fast Speed Boat/vessel Product Line 03	Small \| Large

How come!!

AminCo · « **Reply #45 on:** August 25, 2010, 07:43:44 AM »

any body here to help?

AminCo · « **Reply #46 on:** August 30, 2010, 11:36:04 PM »

those who can help.
can you please check this post:
http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=95.msg44768#msg44768
and help with the naming issue.

Ayyash · « **Reply #47 on:** August 31, 2010, 12:37:28 AM »

Quote from: AminCo on August 30, 2010, 11:36:04 PM

those who can help.
can you please check this post:
http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=95.msg44768#msg44768
and help with the naming issue.

It's confusing to say the least. Here's what i think

IPS-16/Peykaap: Original model purchased from NK, the smallest of the two, with only twin 324 mm torpedos. Models produced in Iran are referred to both as the Peykaap and as the IPS-16. These don't have the radar mast structure just behind the cabin. Round side windows. Double side-by-side front windows.

Bavar/Bavar: IPS-16/Peykaap armed with Kowsars. Has a radar mast behind the cabin. Rarely called the "Peykaap-II" or "Modified Peykaap" or more commonly, the Bavar. Round side windows. Double side-by-side front windows.

IPS-18/Tir: Original model purchased from North Korea with twin 533 mm torpedo tubes and 12.7 mm MG at rear. Models in Iran are alternately referred to as the IPS-18 or Tir.

Zolfaqar: IMO, this refers to possibly three things. Either as a general class of vessel that incorporates the IPS-16/18/Peykaap/Tir/Bavar, etc; this is supported by the recent announcement that Iran incorporated 12 new "Zolfaqar class" speedboats into the IRGCN - we all saw the pictures of the 12 boats of different kind, including 2 IPS-18/Tir's, 2 Peykaap/Bavar's, 5 of an unkown type, and 3 semi-submersible boats - a total of 12, but only if you count them all in the same group.

The 2nd possibility is that it just refers to the class of boats based on the "IPS-16".

The 3rd possibility is that Zolfaqar refers to the unknown type seen at that same event - it resembles an IPS-16, but with a lengthened cabin and other semi-stealthy features.

The 4th possibility is that the Zolfaqar is what was shown at the factory floor visit by the DM (Not the Seraj) which is identical to the Paykaap-II/Bavar but with twin 12.7 mm machine gun mounts, one in front and one in back, and can be armed with Nasr' instead of just Kowsars.

Personally, i think the first version, or at least, the is most likely

AminCo · « **Reply #48 on:** August 31, 2010, 01:32:00 AM »

thanks for explanation Ayyash

AminCo · « **Reply #49 on:** August 31, 2010, 01:57:22 AM »

Ayyash, correct me if I am wrong
1st picture.
last two boat are Bavar [IPS-16 Paykaap-II]
the other Two are Tir [IPS-18]

2nd picture:
5 boat in front are Bavar [IPS16 Paykaap]