Author Topic: IRGC Commander Stresses Iran's Monopoly on Missile-Launching Speedboats (Read 1689 times)

berislac · « **on:** May 13, 2012, 05:15:42 PM »

TEHRAN (FNA)- Commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) Navy Rear Admiral Ali Fadavi said that Iran has allocated thousands of its speed boats for military purposes, adding that production of missile-launching speedboats is under Iran's monopoly.

"All throughout the world, Iran is the only country which has speed vessels with the ability of firing (rockets and missile) at high speeds," Fadavi said addressing the second national conference on speedboats here in Tehran on Sunday.

"We now have speedboats which can launch missiles as they traverse at a speed over 60km (per hour)," the commander underscored.

He further announced that Iran has several thousands of high-speed vessels, 20,000 of which are used for military purposes, adding that the fate of any war between Iran and the US in the sea will be determined by Iran's speedboats.

In March 2011, Fadavi had said that speed boats, specially the newly mass-produced missile-launching vessels, have granted high mobility and power to the IRGC Navy and made it a unique force in the world.

"As regards high-speed missile-launching vessels, no country in the world enjoys such a power (that Iran has)," Fadavi said, addressing a ceremony held to mark inauguration of the production lines of two types of new speed vessels.

"We emphasize that we have gained a unique power in this field of naval defense," Fadavi went on saying.

Admiral Fadavi further compared the high speed of the Iranian vessels and the IRGC Navy's high mobility with the US Navy, and said, "US warships currently have a maximum speed of 31 knots while the Iranian vessels can traverse twice as fast on average."
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9102111883

berislac · « **Reply #1 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:18:52 PM »

First time they are disclosing numbers.If the number is correct the Americans will experience hell in case of real war.Twenty thousand is fearfull number.

Lord of the Rings · « **Reply #2 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:30:30 PM »

20000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the question does the majority of these include boats with missile launching capability.

Nonbarbari · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2012, 06:51:18 PM »

berislac

Bro, you forgot to put the link to your article.

Immortal · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2012, 08:46:02 PM »

The 20,000 speedboats don't all fire "missiles". A majority are speedboats with a rocket launcher on top of it. So the majority fire unguided rockets.

Immortal · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2012, 08:47:02 PM »

Iran most innovative in missile-launching speedboat manufacture: admiral

TEHRAN – The commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps Naval Force has said that Iran is the world’s leading country in producing missile-launching speedboats.

Rear Admiral Ali Fadavi made the remarks during the opening ceremony of the second national conference on speedboats which opened on Sunday at Tehran’s Sharif University of Technology.

He said, “Armed speedboats which are capable of firing while moving at high speed only exist in Iran.

“Speedboats equipped with torpedoes and electronic systems exist nowhere in the world but in Iran.”

He added, “Many countries have not entered this field, and some countries like the United States abandoned their attempt after a short time.”

He also said that Iran possesses 20,000 speedboats which serve military purposes.

In addition, he said that Iran has produced a class of speedboats which are able to fire missiles while moving at a speed of 60 kilometers per hour.

Elsewhere in his remarks, the IRGC official said that if the United States launches a war against Iran, missile-launching speedboats will determine the fate of the war.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/component/content/article/97822

kyuss · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2012, 04:20:44 AM »

Not all of the "20,000" speedboats are armed with artillary rockets and short range anti shipping missiles. Some are just armed with machine guns, some mines and some are unarmed.

Immortal · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2012, 04:44:31 AM »

Quote from: kyuss on May 14, 2012, 04:20:44 AM

Not all of the "20,000" speedboats are armed with artillary rockets and short range anti shipping missiles. Some are just armed with machine guns, some mines and some are unarmed.

Probably only 25-100 are actually armed with any type of guided missiles.

Iran reverse engineered the bladerunner speedboat which is the fastest in the world. However, instead of equipping it with torpedos or missiles it put an artillery rocket launcher on top of the speedboat.

mustavaris · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2012, 05:27:44 AM »

From my point of view I find it odd that Iran has not navalized ATGWs. We use Spike ERs on our light vessels (and from land too as we have very nice archipelago along our coasts..). If the missile can be stored properly in order to protect it from salt/water/etc even the older generation with 500 - 600 mm RHA penetration capability can cause real damage as the modern ships have very light armour. The non-guided rockets are close to useless if you are mobile and there are any waves around...while the ATGMs another story altogether. And no, I am not talking about using ATGWs instead of decidated naval missiles, but instead of unguided rockets and such one very often sees on Iranian vessels.

husseinibnali · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2012, 05:43:21 AM »

Mustavaris the IRGC has better than that which is the short range anti-ship missiles like zafar and Nasr which are arming Iranian made speedboats like Zolfaghar and it's more harmful than the ATGMs that need to be close to the enemy vessel and has to have eye contact to guide these missiles which makes too risky.

The main idea about unguided rockets on speedboats is implementing swarming tactics by using cheap weapons while moving fastly towards the enemy targets and the IRGC are always doing exercises which most are secret and unannounced to make the boats crews more professional in doing the most possible damages to a vessel in the shortest time possible.Using an ATGMs as you suggest means that the boats will be static for relatively long time and this means having casualties which are not worth full militarily.

kyuss · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2012, 06:34:04 AM »

Those type-63 107mm rockets would be much more effective if the launchers were stablized so that they could actually hit the intended targets while the boats were on the move. In the video of the IRGC exercise when their speedboats were firing on the ex-Iraqi landing craft the majority of the rockets flew over the target and some hit short of the target. verry few rockets actually hit the target and it looked like the majority of the hits were scored by boats that stoped close to the target ship to fire. Considering the number of rockets that were fired at that ship if they could achieve a high hit probability they would do a great deal of damage to any target ship short of actually sinking it.

kyuss · « **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2012, 06:45:57 AM »

mustavaris

As far as I know the wire guided atgms that iran uses are not suitable to be fired over water because as soon as the wire comes in contact with the water surface it will short out. In my opinion it would be better if Iran were to develope a cheap laser guidense system for the 107mm and 122mm artillary rockets that they already mount on their speedboats. Also while heat warheads are effective against AFVs wich generally contain men, fuel and munitions a confined space i'm not sure how effective they would be on warships unless they use them on specific targets such as the bridge or gun/missile launchers. I wonder how difficult it is to develop artillery rockets with semi-armour piercing warheads like those found on anti ship missiles?

kyuss · « **Reply #12 on:** May 14, 2012, 07:14:53 AM »

husseinibnali

If the Irgc would be able to use a few boats armed with say Kornet or other laser guided ATGW in conjunction with a rocket/speedboat swarm. they could stay keep the ATGW/speedboats back and target the target ship's 127mm guns, phalax... while the ship is buisy trying to fend itself from the swarm!

mustavaris · « **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2012, 07:50:03 AM »

Exactly. You can hit the target with those if you are firing over a short distance and you do not move. Go figure.

Quote from: kyuss on May 14, 2012, 06:34:04 AM

Those type-63 107mm rockets would be much more effective if the launchers were stablized so that they could actually hit the intended targets while the boats were on the move. In the video of the IRGC exercise when their speedboats were firing on the ex-Iraqi landing craft the majority of the rockets flew over the target and some hit short of the target. verry few rockets actually hit the target and it looked like the majority of the hits were scored by boats that stoped close to the target ship to fire. Considering the number of rockets that were fired at that ship if they could achieve a high hit probability they would do a great deal of damage to any target ship short of actually sinking it.

mustavaris · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2012, 07:52:11 AM »

Yes, the wire guided missiles are out of question due to various reasons. What comes to those rockets, you can set the sensitivity of the fuse according to need. Direct hit should penetrate light structures before explosion.

What comes to laser guiding for the rockets: that could work although one I am not sure whcih one would be cheaper: ATGMs or those rockets. AFAIK, there arent too many suitable rockets out there while there are many ATGMs and developmentr of laser guided rockets has been pretty hard... (eg. Hydra rocket).

Quote from: kyuss on May 14, 2012, 06:45:57 AM

mustavaris

As far as I know the wire guided atgms that iran uses are not suitable to be fired over water because as soon as the wire comes in contact with the water surface it will short out. In my opinion it would be better if Iran were to develope a cheap laser guidense system for the 107mm and 122mm artillary rockets that they already mount on their speedboats. Also while heat warheads are effective against AFVs wich generally contain men, fuel and munitions a confined space i'm not sure how effective they would be on warships unless they use them on specific targets such as the bridge or gun/missile launchers. I wonder how difficult it is to develop artillery rockets with semi-armour piercing warheads like those found on anti ship missiles?

mustavaris · « **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2012, 07:55:43 AM »

In case of Nasr the missile alone weighs 350 kg and it is dependent on radar. Zafar looks pretty heavy to me too. Those are excellent for their slot, but I am talking about replacement of the useless 107mm/122mm rockets that have less practical range than decent ATGMs.

Quote from: husseinibnali on May 14, 2012, 05:43:21 AM

Mustavaris the IRGC has better than that which is the short range anti-ship missiles like zafar and Nasr which are arming Iranian made speedboats like Zolfaghar and it's more harmful than the ATGMs that need to be close to the enemy vessel and has to have eye contact to guide these missiles which makes too risky.

The main idea about unguided rockets on speedboats is implementing swarming tactics by using cheap weapons while moving fastly towards the enemy targets and the IRGC are always doing exercises which most are secret and unannounced to make the boats crews more professional in doing the most possible damages to a vessel in the shortest time possible.Using an ATGMs as you suggest means that the boats will be static for relatively long time and this means having casualties which are not worth full militarily.

husseinibnali · « **Reply #16 on:** May 14, 2012, 07:59:07 AM »

This is a bad idea Kyuss because it is a waste of human and hardware resources for only one target and it's risky because there is no plan b which is better being invisible for enemies eyes and launching guided missiles to kill a bunch of American crewmen and the whole ship will be busy extinguishing fire and saving their partners.

Your idea is good for manpad boats may be 2-3 boats max behind the swarming boats to destroy their air backup which are naval Blackhawks.

mustavaris · « **Reply #17 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:01:15 AM »

That would be much better indeed.

Quote from: kyuss on May 14, 2012, 07:14:53 AM

husseinibnali

If the Irgc would be able to use a few boats armed with say Kornet or other laser guided ATGW in conjunction with a rocket/speedboat swarm. they could stay keep the ATGW/speedboats back and target the target ship's 127mm guns, phalax... while the ship is buisy trying to fend itself from the swarm!

husseinibnali · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:08:08 AM »

Mustavaris I think Kyuss was right about something that can take over the ATGWs suggestion which is upgrading the rocket launchers to stay stabilized with something like gyroscopes or a system that work like FCS in tanks which have the ability to fire shells while moving.

mustavaris · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:15:28 AM »

Stabilization alone is not enough. Think about it. Those rockets have velocity of less than 700 m/s, they are very vulnerable to side wind. Imagine those on a boat firing towards moving target from let´s say 3000 m. Over 4 seconds of flight time (assuming that the muzzle velocity is maintained...), laws of inertia, moving target, inheritedly very inaccurate...

Quote from: husseinibnali on May 14, 2012, 08:08:08 AM

Mustavaris I think Kyuss was right about something that can take over the ATGWs suggestion which is upgrading the rocket launchers to stay stabilized with something like gyroscopes or a system that work like FCS in tanks which have the ability to fire shells while moving.

zainabia · « **Reply #20 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:54:23 AM »

Quote from: Immortal on May 13, 2012, 08:46:02 PM

The 20,000 speedboats don't all fire "missiles". A majority are speedboats with a rocket launcher on top of it. So the majority fire unguided rockets.

Even then enemy does not know which speedboat has missile and which has rockets. This will give a nightmare to the enemy to hit which speedboat first and which second.

kyuss · « **Reply #21 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:59:44 AM »

Mustavaris

Thank you for the feedback. In regards to the Laser guided Artillary rockets I was thinking of a guidence kit that could be installed on pre existing rounds. If I'm not mistaken the Russians and Israelis already have access to this technology. I think that now that Iran is making its own laser guided 155mm artillery rounds the technology is available in iran also for a guidence kit. Also in regards to a stab system for unguided rockets I was not thinking about engagment distances greater than 300-500 meters but perhaps a fire control system could be devised by the use of laser range finder,balistic computer and wind sensors to allow for the rockets to be fired more accuratly at moving targets while on the move. Like a tank as Hussainibnali said.

Husseinibnali

It is already obvious that the IRGC is training a large number of speed boats as part of its fighting force for any future ingagment with the USN in the future so while this tactic is unecceptable to you and I do to the high price in men and material it is acceptable for the Irgc. I agree with you on the need to operate manpads with the speedboats to counter the Air threat although i think that both the helicpter/hellfire and fast air will propably be able to operate outside of the range of the manpads. Currently i can see the speedboat swarm tactic as serving two purposes. First to harass & distract enemy ships to make them more vulnerable to coordinated anti ship missile strikes and secondly to go after enemy ships that have been hit in order to inflict more damage or to deploy boarding parties to take them over as we saw practised on the same wargames as the swarm tactics.

kyuss · « **Reply #22 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:04:51 AM »

Its probable that some of the speedboats in the swarm will be packed with explosives to ram the enemy vessels eather manned or remote controlled.

M-ATF · « **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2012, 12:33:08 PM »

Quote from: kyuss on May 14, 2012, 06:34:04 AM

Those type-63 107mm rockets would be much more effective if the launchers were stablized so that they could actually hit the intended targets while the boats were on the move.

Quote

Navy FGS-2 Firegate System

PID#: MXF04-000120
Request Details
Navy FGS-2 is a precise electronic fire gate system designed for installation on different kinds of fast patrol boats equipped with rocket launcher, for increasing fire accuracy and quick reaction of the boat attacking system.

http://modlex.ir/cgi-bin/store.pl/page=product.html/pid=MXF04-000120

Using Seraj as rocket launcher boat is good decision too, it has more stability than conventional design boats.

Nonbarbari · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2012, 01:32:10 PM »

Where was it I read that Iran has now succeeded, and upgrade their missile boats so they can fire a missile while they are moving at 70km / h...