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tn
Freeloader (اش خور)
Dear Iranian brothers, I am with you in your combat against the enemies of God but you must change your belief.
The Religion of Allah belongs only to Him and it is not allowed to a Muslim to interpret or give a direction to a verse or a hadith without proof which goes back to Prophet (SAW).
And those which transmitted to us the Message of Prophet (SAW) are His/her Companions then their sons (attabirin) then our pious predecessors (salafouna assalih).
Without them how could have had access to religious science?
This transmission is guaranteed by Allah and is the property neither of the Saoudis neither of Iranian nor of anyone.
It is allowed to no Muslim to criticize or to insult a companion whatever it is or some is the mistakes which he could make because they are the best men than God has creates on this Earth.


Abd Allah Ibn Mas' ûd reports that the Prophet (salallahu ` alayhi wasalam) said: “The best of the men is those of my generation, then those which follow them.” [Al-Bukhârî (2509) and Muslim (2533)]
 
Thus the true believer must follow these people there if he wants to really conform with Sunnah and to thus be approved by Allah.
 
The brothers who wish to inform in their religion I invite them to go on the site of Sheik Al Albani which is one of the scientist in conformity with Sunnah of the Prophet and who denounced the drifts of the governors of the Golf.
 
http://www.alalbany.net/albany_serah.php


I ask you to excuse me for the approximate translation but I am not anglophone and I use a robot translator.

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de
Private (سرباز عادى)
@psywar: Zionists shouldn't talk about Islam.

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ps
Colonel (سرهنگ)
who is this Wahhabi Zionist! and who invited him! I eat people like him everyday for breakfast! Ya Kafer! and im a Sunni!
Im Sunni by mind, Shia by Heart, and Muslim by soul! La Ellaha Ela Allah!

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tn
Freeloader (اش خور)
this is not the place for spamming. Iranians are better in belief than other muslims and praised by the Holy Prophet (pbuh) in various hadiths so no need to teach iranians!


oh well! Well bring your evidence to be true if you're sincere??

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tn
Freeloader (اش خور)
who is this Wahhabi Zionist! and who invited him! I eat people like him everyday for breakfast! Ya Kafer! and im a Sunni!

...... you seem very common for a Muslim.
But hey you must be a descendant of Kharijis that the Prophet (SAW) said they were the dogs of Hell.

Your posts here speaks volumes about you. It is funny that you are here telling us that we are not "good" Muslims yet you say that the Prophet called us "Dogs from Hell".
Take you lessons of Islam that you are trying to teach us and move it to your Wahhabi brothers who hav sold Islam out to every Zionist PIG that comes across.
I have given you  a warning for now but I have very little patiiance for prople like you so there will be no more warnings.

izi
Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 02:45:34 PM by Izirbat

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ir
Major (سرگرد)
Brothers, in my humble opinion we should make an effort and address his points, rather than outright calling him names, because he says he supports Islamic Iran's struggle, and has so far not resorted to insults. Perhaps a user with extensive knowledge of religious matters would want to reply.

For now, I would have a question for abuabderrahman: you cited sheykh Albani, brother, so my question is, does sheykh Albani also consider the Shia and non-wahhabi Sunni Muslims as his co-religionists, or does he make takfir on them? In the latter case, how would dialogue be possible?


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Colonel (سرهنگ)
Brothers, in my humble opinion we should make an effort and address his points, rather than outright calling him names, because he says he supports Islamic Iran's struggle, and has so far not resorted to insults. Perhaps a user with extensive knowledge of religious matters would want to reply.

For now, I would have a question for abuabderrahman: you cited sheykh Albani, brother, so my question is, does sheykh Albani also consider the Shia and non-wahhabi Sunni Muslims as his co-religionists, or does he make takfir on them? In the latter case, how would dialogue be possible?



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I am with you in your combat against the enemies of God but you must change your belief.

this to me is an insult!

then he goes to quote Al-Bukhârî the same people who were willing to cut my head off when I was in their face politely.... im not taking kindly to these kinds of people any more... if u want debate him, but ill tell you from now its no use... they see no logic and will never! They consider me you and everyone who doesnt believe in the sahih muslim and sahih buhkari ahadiths to be a kafer other than a Wahhabi! The Wahhabi inside jail said he had the right to cut my head off! and this guy is no different from starting to tell us how we should believe! then he goes on to say:

Quote
Thus the true believer must follow these people there if he wants to really conform with Sunnah and to thus be approved by Allah.
so u have to confirm with sunnah first then be approved by Allah.... why isnt it the other way around?

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tn
Freeloader (اش خور)
Brothers, in my humble opinion we should make an effort and address his points, rather than outright calling him names, because he says he supports Islamic Iran's struggle, and has so far not resorted to insults. Perhaps a user with extensive knowledge of religious matters would want to reply.

For now, I would have a question for abuabderrahman: you cited sheykh Albani, brother, so my question is, does sheykh Albani also consider the Shia and non-wahhabi Sunni Muslims as his co-religionists, or does he make takfir on them? In the latter case, how would dialogue be possible?

First I came to this friendly forum and I did not intend to insult anyone until takfiri of MO_SOBOH me a disbeliever.
Then we do not kaffara someone or a community poarticlier but a belief.
There are deeds and words which if done or said by knowingly can get a Muslim to Islam they are Iranian or Saudi Arabia it does not matter.

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tn
Freeloader (اش خور)
this to me is an insult!

then he goes to quote Al-Bukhârî the same people who were willing to cut my head off when I was in their face politely.... im not taking kindly to these kinds of people any more... if u want debate him, but ill tell you from now its no use... they see no logic and will never! They consider me you and everyone who doesnt believe in the sahih muslim and sahih buhkari ahadiths to be a kafer other than a Wahhabi! The Wahhabi inside jail said he had the right to cut my head off! and this guy is no different from starting to tell us how we should believe! then he goes on to say:
so u have to confirm with sunnah first then be approved by Allah.... why isnt it the other way around?

So you ... you are a Sahabi that the Prophet (SAW) promised paradise as Abu Bakr Assidiqu not to correct your mistakes?
And then it's that you have to conform to the Sunnah except those who follow the Prohpète (SAW) said they were the best men God has created on this Earth?

'Abd Allah Ibn Mas'ud reported that the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasalam) said: "The best men are those of my generation, then those who follow them. "[Al-Bukhari (2509) and Muslim (2533)]

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rouz
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I predict...



...a ban lol

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Major (سرگرد)

Quote
The Wahhabi inside jail


= what a scumbag!

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'Which of the favors of your Lord will you deny' - Al Rahman
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za
Corporal (سرجوخه)
I can't help but feel sorry for brothers like abdurrahmane, I'm not saying this with arrogance, by Allah,I'm saying it with the greatest of humility.I know how their minds work, how they are brought up, how they are taught.They brought up made to think only they are correct.As such when they read the hadith about how Muslims will be devided into 73 groups, of these groups only one will enter Jannah without having to answer to Allah. Why?Because they are taught only they are following Sunnah, hence they are Sunnis.Everybody else is wrong and will face Allah's wrath on the Day of Judgment, only they are saved.On the face of it, it sounds right and convincing when you listen to it. However when you dig deeper now, beyond the surface, you realise that what Allah and his Prophet says is not sometimes what the so called Sunnis do and say. You see when you want to know about any religion, you have to go read the source. Don't go to people who say they follow that religion, go get the information firsthand. In this case you have to read Quraan and Hadith. The first and foremost source in Islam is Quraan, Allah's word. The Quraan is above ANYTHING in Islam, the primary source. Then there is Hadith (what the Prophet said) and  Sunnah (what the Prophet did).If we ALL stuck to these sources. If we all adopted the agenda fully as ets up by these sources, our problems both internally (among ourselves) and externally (between us and non-muslims), will disappear like foam in the ocean. As easy and as basic as Allah had made this Deen for us, its not enough for us. We just had to complicate it, to add our own 2 cents in there. We had to do our own things,not as measured against these primary sources, but what we inherit from our cultures or customs or norms. In order to clothe these evil and unIslamic practices, we clothe them with Islamic terminology, we label ourselves differently. This is the problem here in a nutshell.This 'clothing' is meant to deceive people who don't know any better. That's why its important to get information yourself from primary sources.Its not enough to accept what your scholars tell you. You need to verify what they telling you, so you teach yourself.In Islam, what matters is what Allah and His Prophet say, nothing else. If anybody or any scholar say something which is not based on what Allah and His Prophet say, their opinion or utterance means NOTHING.But because people don't read, they prefer shortcuts.They just elevate their scholars to the position of authority where whatever they say is accepted without question,simply because they are scholars. People are taking the responsibility of learning themselves and outsourcing it to their scholars. This is a disease that you find among Muslims, among Christians and the Jews.Muslims have their ulema, Christians have their Priests and Jews have their Rabbis. The reason these bodies exist is that they are made a source of reference. This is fine if these bodies rely on the right sources to base their pronouncements. This is not ALWAYS the case. This is the very big problem. The Rabbis led the Jews astray by exercising this power far beyond what they suppose to do.The same happened with Priests and Christians. Now we have Ulemas or scholars doing the exact same thing in Islam. Now these scholars work for dictators, they are on the payroll or these dictators. They are paid to mislead people. The ordinary Muslim doesn't understand what's going on.They just take things as they are told. The result is that you have people who can't reason, as described by Mo, because their scholars tell them soo,if they hear anything contrary to what they told they automatically reject it. They don't investigate issues, they don't think or reason.They are parrots,they have submitted themselves to the will of their scholars instead of Allah's. They go around calling other Muslims kaffirs and all sorts of names.If you try to reason with them, showing them where they are mistaken, you become Shaitan. There is no winning with such people.They are soo far deep in their brainwashing process, the process is complete. They are willing to kill or die for their point of view.This is not a matter of belief.Nobody needs to change any beliefs here. Among Muslims, this is the matter of those who follow what Allah and His Prophet say against those who like to appear as is they following Allah and His Prophet.I'm not going to go further and call people names.Its not my place.Allah will stand in Judgment of everybody.He will name people and sort all this mess up.I'm not going to waste time with naming.I rather discuss issues, where those that are mistaken have gotten it wrong.I prefer to spend time doing that.   
None of you is a believer until he loves for his brother that which he loves for himself - The last Messenger

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rouz
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I'm glad Moon is on our side.

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en
S. Sergeant (گروهبان سو
This is the state of the mindset of the " Umma " ? What understanding do muslims have ? Or Christian ? Or Jew ? About  the world ?


Error is inconsistent with my prime function .

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tn
Freeloader (اش خور)
I can't help but feel sorry for brothers like abdurrahmane, I'm not saying this with arrogance, by Allah,I'm saying it with the greatest of humility.I know how their minds work, how they are brought up, how they are taught.They brought up made to think only they are correct.As such when they read the hadith about how Muslims will be devided into 73 groups, of these groups only one will enter Jannah without having to answer to Allah. Why?Because they are taught only they are following Sunnah, hence they are Sunnis.Everybody else is wrong and will face Allah's wrath on the Day of Judgment, only they are saved.On the face of it, it sounds right and convincing when you listen to it. However when you dig deeper now, beyond the surface, you realise that what Allah and his Prophet says is not sometimes what the so called Sunnis do and say. You see when you want to know about any religion, you have to go read the source. Don't go to people who say they follow that religion, go get the information firsthand. In this case you have to read Quraan and Hadith. The first and foremost source in Islam is Quraan, Allah's word. The Quraan is above ANYTHING in Islam, the primary source. Then there is Hadith (what the Prophet said) and  Sunnah (what the Prophet did).If we ALL stuck to these sources. If we all adopted the agenda fully as ets up by these sources, our problems both internally (among ourselves) and externally (between us and non-muslims), will disappear like foam in the ocean. As easy and as basic as Allah had made this Deen for us, its not enough for us. We just had to complicate it, to add our own 2 cents in there. We had to do our own things,not as measured against these primary sources, but what we inherit from our cultures or customs or norms. In order to clothe these evil and unIslamic practices, we clothe them with Islamic terminology, we label ourselves differently. This is the problem here in a nutshell.This 'clothing' is meant to deceive people who don't know any better. That's why its important to get information yourself from primary sources.Its not enough to accept what your scholars tell you. You need to verify what they telling you, so you teach yourself.In Islam, what matters is what Allah and His Prophet say, nothing else. If anybody or any scholar say something which is not based on what Allah and His Prophet say, their opinion or utterance means NOTHING.But because people don't read, they prefer shortcuts.They just elevate their scholars to the position of authority where whatever they say is accepted without question,simply because they are scholars. People are taking the responsibility of learning themselves and outsourcing it to their scholars. This is a disease that you find among Muslims, among Christians and the Jews.Muslims have their ulema, Christians have their Priests and Jews have their Rabbis. The reason these bodies exist is that they are made a source of reference. This is fine if these bodies rely on the right sources to base their pronouncements. This is not ALWAYS the case. This is the very big problem. The Rabbis led the Jews astray by exercising this power far beyond what they suppose to do.The same happened with Priests and Christians. Now we have Ulemas or scholars doing the exact same thing in Islam. Now these scholars work for dictators, they are on the payroll or these dictators. They are paid to mislead people. The ordinary Muslim doesn't understand what's going on.They just take things as they are told. The result is that you have people who can't reason, as described by Mo, because their scholars tell them soo,if they hear anything contrary to what they told they automatically reject it. They don't investigate issues, they don't think or reason.They are parrots,they have submitted themselves to the will of their scholars instead of Allah's. They go around calling other Muslims kaffirs and all sorts of names.If you try to reason with them, showing them where they are mistaken, you become Shaitan. There is no winning with such people.They are soo far deep in their brainwashing process, the process is complete. They are willing to kill or die for their point of view.This is not a matter of belief.Nobody needs to change any beliefs here. Among Muslims, this is the matter of those who follow what Allah and His Prophet say against those who like to appear as is they following Allah and His Prophet.I'm not going to go further and call people names.Its not my place.Allah will stand in Judgment of everybody.He will name people and sort all this mess up.I'm not going to waste time with naming.I rather discuss issues, where those that are mistaken have gotten it wrong.I prefer to spend time doing that.


.. I never said that we should take a scientist with eyes closed without verification because the scientist of any kind even if it's only companion is not infallible.
But despite all the scientist will always be rewarded when their efforts are sincere and will remain the best source for us, contemporary, because we have neither the Prophet nor companions with us.

The Prophet (SAW) said:


"When the scientist has made an effort (ijtahada) and reached the truth, he has two rewards, and he made an effort and made a mistake, he has one reward"


"The scholars are the heirs of the prophets. But the prophets have left a legacy or dinars or dirhams, but they left science. So whoever takes it (that is to say, science), so he grabbed a huge part (of the inheritance). "

and as Allah said:

فاسألوا أهل الذكر إن كنتم لا تعلمون

(Ask the people of knowledge if you do not know)


One can acquire knowledge so that through the scholars, especially those dating back to the best possible understanding is that the Companions of the Prophet (SAW).
For Allah Almighty said:

"The first [believers] of the Muhajirun (of Mecca) and the Ansar (of Medina) and those who followed them in the best way, Allah be pleased with them, and they with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow to abide therein. That's the huge success! "(At-Tawbah, V.100)


So when we had access to science by selecting the scholars according to the criteria of their manhaj and there are differences then it is normal and has always existed.
But in our time it is clear that Muslims take their knowledge of people who call themselves Mullah or Imam by the people without trying to know where they draw the source of their knowledge.
The difference between believers who are on the right track and those who are lost is the fact that the first refers to scholars who take their knowledge of our pious predecessors (those mentioned in the hadith above) which in turn themselves have taken their knowledge of the Companions (Allah and approved), which themselves have taken their knowledge of the Prophet (SAW) while the latter have learned as people who do not go back to the source, or that interpret the texts with their passions.
 


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za
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Brother abdurrahmane,I believe you sincere in what you say and because you willing to sit and reason,Im more that happy to oblige brother.

.. I never said that we should take a scientist with eyes closed without verification because the scientist of any kind even if it's only companion is not infallible.

Im glad you accept this, its very important to accept this at the beginning as you will see in our discussion.

But despite all the scientist will always be rewarded when their efforts are sincere and will remain the best source for us, contemporary, because we have neither the Prophet nor companions with us.

Exactly, please read what you just said here again slowly. The key is if the scholars are sincere. Without this sincerity, there is no reward. This is the criteria to measure the scholar’s work. Sincere to what?

he Prophet (SAW) said:


"When the scientist has made an effort (ijtahada) and reached the truth, he has two rewards, and he made an effort and made a mistake, he has one reward"


This is talking about making a mistake while making ijtihad or reasoning using the correct Islamic sources, not making a mistake of ijtihad or reasoning while using the incorrect sources.You need to think what you saying brother, don’t just rehash what you have been taught like a parrot.You need to reason, reasoning is key here.


"The scholars are the heirs of the prophets. But the prophets have left a legacy or dinars or dirhams, but they left science. So whoever takes it (that is to say, science), so he grabbed a huge part (of the inheritance). "


This is talking about very few scholars in the history of Islam, soo few actually that you wont even get 20 in number.Scholars who know the truth, stand by that truth, even die for that truth.Such scholars are soo few in number,they are an exception rather than the rule.The vast majority of scholars are unable to make such sacrifices.They have vested interest in not standing by the truth, as taught by Allah and His Prophet.Of all the injustice happening in the Muslim world they benefit by not standing up for justice, of all the corruption happening in Muslim word they benefit by being silent, of all the oppression happening in the Muslim world they benefit by siding with oppressors.I can go on and on but Im sure you get the point.Im talking about whats happening in my lifetime,here and now.Its no use just memorising the praises of the scholars when you don’t understand whats happening. You need to understand where the world is NOW and see where the scholars stand. Apply the theory to whats happening, then you start seeing the world as you should see it, not as you are conditioned to see it.

and as Allah said:

فاسألوا أهل الذكر إن كنتم لا تعلمون

(Ask the people of knowledge if you do not know)


Knowledge in Islam is not merely reciting things, it practising things.Those people who only want to memorise knowledge without practising it, Allah likens them to donkeys in the Quraan, who are carrying a load but not realising the value of that load. Allah hates those that say things they don’t do. Thats why He says the first group of people He will throw into the Hellfire are those who said things they didn’t do. This is how much Allah hates parroting.

One can acquire knowledge so that through the scholars, especially those dating back to the best possible understanding is that the Companions of the Prophet (SAW).
For Allah Almighty said:

"The first [believers] of the Muhajirun (of Mecca) and the Ansar (of Medina) and those who followed them in the best way, Allah be pleased with them, and they with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow to abide therein. That's the huge success! "(At-Tawbah, V.100)


I don’t understand why you telling me this. What are you trying to say?

So when we had access to science by selecting the scholars according to the criteria of their manhaj and there are differences then it is normal and has always existed.

Please explain this to me.

But in our time it is clear that Muslims take their knowledge of people who call themselves Mullah or Imam by the people without trying to know where they draw the source of their knowledge.

Muslims should take their knowledge from Quraan and Hadith or Sunnah. These are the sources.


The difference between believers who are on the right track and those who are lost is the fact that the first refers to scholars who take their knowledge of our pious predecessors (those mentioned in the hadith above) which in turn themselves have taken their knowledge of the Companions (Allah and approved), which themselves have taken their knowledge of the Prophet (SAW) while the latter have learned as people who do not go back to the source, or that interpret the texts with their passions.

The believers who are on the right are those that follow what Allah and His Prophet say. Period.

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ps
Colonel (سرهنگ)

The believers who are on the right are those that follow what Allah and His Prophet say. Period.

thats exactly what I wanted to hear from this guy... but nnooooo u are either Sunna or you are kaffer, and thats exactly what he means brother Moon... ull see eventually!

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tn
Freeloader (اش خور)
Brother abdurrahmane,I believe you sincere in what you say and because you willing to sit and reason,Im more that happy to oblige brother.

.. I never said that we should take a scientist with eyes closed without verification because the scientist of any kind even if it's only companion is not infallible.

Im glad you accept this, its very important to accept this at the beginning as you will see in our discussion.

But despite all the scientist will always be rewarded when their efforts are sincere and will remain the best source for us, contemporary, because we have neither the Prophet nor companions with us.

Exactly, please read what you just said here again slowly. The key is if the scholars are sincere. Without this sincerity, there is no reward. This is the criteria to measure the scholar’s work. Sincere to what?

he Prophet (SAW) said:


"When the scientist has made an effort (ijtahada) and reached the truth, he has two rewards, and he made an effort and made a mistake, he has one reward"


This is talking about making a mistake while making ijtihad or reasoning using the correct Islamic sources, not making a mistake of ijtihad or reasoning while using the incorrect sources.You need to think what you saying brother, don’t just rehash what you have been taught like a parrot.You need to reason, reasoning is key here.


"The scholars are the heirs of the prophets. But the prophets have left a legacy or dinars or dirhams, but they left science. So whoever takes it (that is to say, science), so he grabbed a huge part (of the inheritance). "


This is talking about very few scholars in the history of Islam, soo few actually that you wont even get 20 in number.Scholars who know the truth, stand by that truth, even die for that truth.Such scholars are soo few in number,they are an exception rather than the rule.The vast majority of scholars are unable to make such sacrifices.They have vested interest in not standing by the truth, as taught by Allah and His Prophet.Of all the injustice happening in the Muslim world they benefit by not standing up for justice, of all the corruption happening in Muslim word they benefit by being silent, of all the oppression happening in the Muslim world they benefit by siding with oppressors.I can go on and on but Im sure you get the point.Im talking about whats happening in my lifetime,here and now.Its no use just memorising the praises of the scholars when you don’t understand whats happening. You need to understand where the world is NOW and see where the scholars stand. Apply the theory to whats happening, then you start seeing the world as you should see it, not as you are conditioned to see it.

and as Allah said:

فاسألوا أهل الذكر إن كنتم لا تعلمون

(Ask the people of knowledge if you do not know)


Knowledge in Islam is not merely reciting things, it practising things.Those people who only want to memorise knowledge without practising it, Allah likens them to donkeys in the Quraan, who are carrying a load but not realising the value of that load. Allah hates those that say things they don’t do. Thats why He says the first group of people He will throw into the Hellfire are those who said things they didn’t do. This is how much Allah hates parroting.

One can acquire knowledge so that through the scholars, especially those dating back to the best possible understanding is that the Companions of the Prophet (SAW).
For Allah Almighty said:

"The first [believers] of the Muhajirun (of Mecca) and the Ansar (of Medina) and those who followed them in the best way, Allah be pleased with them, and they with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow to abide therein. That's the huge success! "(At-Tawbah, V.100)


I don’t understand why you telling me this. What are you trying to say?

So when we had access to science by selecting the scholars according to the criteria of their manhaj and there are differences then it is normal and has always existed.

Please explain this to me.

But in our time it is clear that Muslims take their knowledge of people who call themselves Mullah or Imam by the people without trying to know where they draw the source of their knowledge.

Muslims should take their knowledge from Quraan and Hadith or Sunnah. These are the sources.


The difference between believers who are on the right track and those who are lost is the fact that the first refers to scholars who take their knowledge of our pious predecessors (those mentioned in the hadith above) which in turn themselves have taken their knowledge of the Companions (Allah and approved), which themselves have taken their knowledge of the Prophet (SAW) while the latter have learned as people who do not go back to the source, or that interpret the texts with their passions.

The believers who are on the right are those that follow what Allah and His Prophet say. Period.





… excuse me but it is perhaps my translation which is not explicit because as I said not being anglophone I use a robot translator.
The scientist of which it is question and who is the heirs to the Prophets (as in the hadith that I mentioned above) it is the faquih like Prophet (SAW) says it in this hadith:

The Prophet said: “Ô people, learn. Admittedly, science comes by the training and science from the religion by oral transmission. That for which Allah wants good, It makes him learn science from the religion”. [Paid by At-Tabarany]

or

The Prophet said: “That which interprets Qour' year according to its personal opinion, it makes a mistake even if what it said is correct”. [Paid by At-Tirmidhi]


I.e. it is that which with the knowledge and the comprehension of the Texts Crowned according to the comprehension of our pious predecessors but more especially the practice of this Knowledge.
 is obviously not that which has only the knowledge without having comprehension and the practice with.

And excuses me my brother but it is better to be a parrot which repeats the truth that somebody as you who does not advance any dalil and any reliable source and (i.e. which goes back to our pious predecessors) and which speaks just with its reason.
Because one never makes precede the reason on the religious proof in Islam.
Thus or you want a debate constructive and you answer my dalils by others dalils or if you react that while criticizing with your reason and feelings then I prefer to close the debate.

I invite you to go on this site, you will learn there much things on the sects deviating and those which as Mo-soboh returns mécérant the others:

http://www.takfiris.com/takfir/



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Colonel (سرهنگ)

Thus or you want a debate constructive and you answer my dalils by others dalils or if you react that while criticizing with your reason and feelings then I prefer to close the debate.

I invite you to go on this site, you will learn there much things on the sects deviating and those which as Mo-soboh returns mécérant the others:

http://www.takfiris.com/takfir/





whats up losing hope already??!! why give up so easily?

second of all... I would like everyone to see you for who you really are and not the nice image you portray your self as...

here is a quote from your link...

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which is the absence of al-iltizaam, or b) out of something that constitutes kufr in an of itself such as al-kibr (pride) al-istikbaar (arrogance), al-bughd (hatred) and the likes, even if one accepts that the obligation applies to oneself.

These are the correct usages of these terms, and this is how the scholars use these terms, both Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah and likewise Shaykh ul-Islam Ibn Abdul-Wahhaab. These types of statements are not in relation to the rulers who make iltizaam of the obligations but fall short in fulfilling them in practice.


as everyone can see, you are a Wahhabi by fact! quoting wahabi sources is just as good as quoting Zionists sources to me... because I have faced people like you and was kind to them from the beginning, but then you Wahhabi's start to mistake kindness for weakness! and instead of explaining things you resort to insults indirectly through the net, and DIRECTLY from face to face you want to cut my head off (who the hell gives the right to kill anyone is beyond my comprehension)... I can smell you a mile away... and the reason I called you a kafer was because you came in thinking we are all Kufar... I just read your mind without you noticing! AlhamduAllah God gave me eyes, ears, and a brain to see past your wolf like figure under your sheep clothing!   

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Wahhabism is a religious movement[1] or a branch[2] of Islam. It was developed by an 18th century Muslim theologian (Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab) from Najd, Saudi Arabia. Abdul Al-Wahhab advocated purging Islam of what he considered to be impurities and innovations. Wahhabism is the dominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia. It has developed considerable influence in the Muslim world in part through Saudi funding of mosques, schools and social programs.
Wahhabism claims to adhere to the correct understanding of the general Islamic doctrine of Tawhid, the Uniqueness and Unity of God, shared by the majority of Islamic sects, but uniquely interpreted by Abdul Al-Wahhab .[3] Ibn Abd-al-Wahhab was influenced by the writings of Ibn Taymiyya and questioned classical interpretations of Islam, claiming to rely on the Qur'an and the Hadith.[3] He attacked a "perceived moral decline and political weakness" in the Arabian Peninsula and condemned what he perceived as idolatry, the popular cult of saints, and shrine and tomb visitation.[3]
The terms "Wahhabi" and "Salafi" (as well as ahl al-hadith, people of hadith) are often used interchangeably, but Wahhabi has also been called "a particular orientation within Salafism",[2] an orientation some consider ultra-conservative and heretical.[4][5]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi

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tn
Freeloader (اش خور)
Wahhabism is a religious movement[1] or a branch[2] of Islam. It was developed by an 18th century Muslim theologian (Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab) from Najd, Saudi Arabia. Abdul Al-Wahhab advocated purging Islam of what he considered to be impurities and innovations. Wahhabism is the dominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia. It has developed considerable influence in the Muslim world in part through Saudi funding of mosques, schools and social programs.
Wahhabism claims to adhere to the correct understanding of the general Islamic doctrine of Tawhid, the Uniqueness and Unity of God, shared by the majority of Islamic sects, but uniquely interpreted by Abdul Al-Wahhab .[3] Ibn Abd-al-Wahhab was influenced by the writings of Ibn Taymiyya and questioned classical interpretations of Islam, claiming to rely on the Qur'an and the Hadith.[3] He attacked a "perceived moral decline and political weakness" in the Arabian Peninsula and condemned what he perceived as idolatry, the popular cult of saints, and shrine and tomb visitation.[3]
The terms "Wahhabi" and "Salafi" (as well as ahl al-hadith, people of hadith) are often used interchangeably, but Wahhabi has also been called "a particular orientation within Salafism",[2] an orientation some consider ultra-conservative and heretical.[4][5]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi




… a little your spirit opens and stops stigmatizing the others which think differently from you.
In any sincere and veracious scientist there is good and at least good.
Is there because I take what of good at Muhammad Ibn Abd Al Wahhab who I am a wahabite?
As also for example those which claim to follow the Malik Imam in the Arab Maghreb, they follow really the Malik Imam?
It is what one calls “attarassoub” which returns the behavior of the sectarian Muslims and not because they take at such or a tel.
Only the Sources which one takes the closed eyes are the Koran and Hadiths Authentiques.

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… a little your spirit opens and stops stigmatizing the others which think differently from you.
In any sincere and veracious scientist there is good and at least good.
Is there because I take what of good at Muhammad Ibn Abd Al Wahhab who I am a wahabite?
As also for example those which claim to follow the Malik Imam in the Arab Maghreb, they follow really the Malik Imam?
It is what one calls “attarassoub” which returns the behavior of the sectarian Muslims and not because they take at such or a tel.
Only the Sources which one takes the closed eyes are the Koran and Hadiths Authentiques.

well then if your not a wahhabi and you are really sencere... why start the conversation like this:


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Dear Iranian brothers, I am with you in your combat against the enemies of God but you must change your belief.

do you even know any of us at a personal level to tell us to change our belief? there alot of forum members here that are muslim and we all believe in the oneness of God and the unity of Islam, and if you really are a good muslim you would defend that cause without a doubt, but not to bring.. what we call in arabic (shoroot) meaning conditions to change what we believe.... you have to educate us into wanting to believe what it is you want us to believe... not force it on us and call us dogs of hell... thats no way to attract attention to what you are trying to teach! your method is very flawed and everyone can see that here! and what made you a wahhabi is that you are sourcing Ahadiths (sahih bukhari and sahih mulsim ) that I was arguing with, with Sheiks... (Wahhabi sheiks) to be more specific, the same ones who said I have to accept whats written otherwise he has the right to cut my throat... and then he also said if I dont pray I am a kaffer and that makes me in line with a slaughter house for sheep! That same guy was calling all Shia Kuffar! that same guy was talking to me in business opportunities before I even knew him and who he really was) and im sure your not far form that! In my belief anything that contradicts the Quran is not sahih! are you a wahhabi yes or no?!!!

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'Which of the favors of your Lord will you deny' - Al Rahman
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Corporal (سرجوخه)
Brother abdurrahmane I'm speaking to you directly here, we talking face to face, figuratively.Why must I go read your website?Why don't you tell me what your website says.Again,I know you have a problem with English, talk to me about what Allah and His Prophet say.I'm not interested in what the opinions of your Sheiks are, that's your business with them.I want you to talk to me face to face.Leave the Sheiks out of this, even better if you can't argue properly go and call your Sheiks here.Go invite them here to speak on your behalf.

What language do you speak brother?
Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 01:41:21 PM by Moon

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tn
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It is not me but the Prophet (SAW) who said they are Khawarij of the dogs of hell:

They are the dogs of hell and the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasalam) said to them: "If I met them, I'd kill them as the people of cad. "[1] and a version" as the people of Thamud. "


[1] Al-Bukhari (3344). The hadith concerning the description of Al-Khawaarij are numerous, including "Good ad to the one who kills or is killed by them. "Sahih Abu Dawud (4765). The Prophet (SAW) also said: "They are the dogs of hell. "Sahih Ibn Majah (p.76).


.... Then before I threaten to ban, should learn what it means to be a Muslim and never getting his race or nationality with the Word of Allah and His Prophet and the banner Kharijism true and not those who say the truth.

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Corporal (سرجوخه)
Brother abdurrahmane who exactly is Khawariij?In this day in age,who exactly is Khawariij?

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