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Private (سرباز عادى)
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ir
Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
this is a long shot for iran who has not launched more than one satelite that weigt 19 kilos.
Iran Khodro largest auto maker in larger middle east



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S. Sergeant (گروهبان سو
its a longshot for aryana to speak a paragraph, as he hasnt spoken more than a sentence. :sleep:

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Colonel (سرهنگ)
its a longshot for aryana to speak a paragraph, as he hasnt spoken more than a sentence. :sleep:
:lol:
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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
- Harry Truman

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I think a suborbital space jump is quite possible with existing capabilities for Iran without major resource allocation. The Mercury did that with Redstone rocket which is somewhat weaker than the Shahab 3. They launched an almost 2 tons capsule to 187 km height and traveled 400 km.

For orbital flight, its much more complicated and needs more time, but achievable until 2021 (1400)  compared the wishful time frame of 2016 .

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
....I am sorry but that is just plain wrong. The Redstone that launched the first Mercury capsule is more powerful than the Shahab-3 and the Safir SLV. Also the Shahab-3 carries just a 1 ton payload, half that of the Mercury capsule and that makes a huge difference.

Here the difference between the Shahab-3 and the Redstone:
1. Dimensions- Redstone is dimensionally much larger than even the Safir, 25 meters long with a diameter of 1.78 meters.
2. Weight- Has a loaded weight of 30 metric tons, compared to the 16 ton figure most accepted for Shahab-3 and the 26 tons of the Safir
3. Thrust- the Redstone is a single stage rocket that produces 39 standard tons of thrust (78,000lbs)
4. Fuel- The Redstone uses Liquid Oxygen and Ethly Alcohol. The Liquid Oxygen is a much more potent fuel than the Kerosene and Nitric Acid fuel mixture of the Shahab-3.
5. Burn time- Most sources agree the Shahab-3 has a burn time of just 90 seconds. The single stage Redstone has a burn time of 143.5 seconds.

All these factors together make the Redstone significantly more powerful as a SLV than the Shahab-3 or the Safir. The main factor in this is the fuel, LOX is one of the most potent rocket fuels in the world, not only more powerful than more traditional fuels but also burns longer, increasing its lifting ability and maximum altitude achieved.

As I said, the Simorgh can form the basis for a suborbital vehicle, the trick is how much improvements need to made in just 4 years after the Simorgh is first tested to be able to achieve such a feat and I am not sure that is enough time to safely test such a thing. I am going to look into it a bit more to get some more specifics on how powerful a Simorgh based SLV would need to be.
Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 10:02:25 PM by Eagle2009

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
However that said, the Mercury 3 mission is a good model to look at for what Iran needs to do to achieve the same feat in just 5 years.

First, as Chacko-T pointed, the Mercury 3 capsule achieved a apogee of 187km and covered a distance of 400km during its flight, with the whole flight lasted 15 minutes and 28 seconds. The maximum speed achieved during the mission was 2.3km/second. Some other facts to consider, as I stated before the first 143.5 seconds of the flight was the burning of the rocket itself and the Mercury capsule weighed roughly 1800kg at takeoff. Also it should be noted, the Redstone ballistic missile for which the Redstone Rocket was based on was a short range ballistic missile with no greater than a Scud (300+km) the difference however is the Redstone has a considerably higher velocity than the Scud, likely because of its powerful fuel and this is why they chose it for the task.

Now, the speed is the real key to this. Depending on how long you want you suborbital flight to last depends very much on its velocity. Technically speaking the first suborbital flight was by the V-2 rocket which achieved an apogee of 97km at a speed of a little over 1km/second (not much slower than a Scud at 1.4km/s). Similarly, the SpaceShipOne achieved a similar feat at roughly the same speed. The problem with these flights is they were very short. I think Iran should aim for something more like the Mercury's duration and therefore needs to achieve the same velocity of 2.25-2.5km/second.

So Iran needs to develop an SLV that carry at least a 1 to 1.5 metric ton payload to a 200km apogee at a speed of at least 2.25km/second. The weight is my own personal estimate considering Iran can use more modern alloys for construction and more lightweight and compact electronics.

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
The problem I am running into is we don't know what the Simorgh's 1st stage velocity. Most sources estimate the Shahab-3's maximum velocity during flight is not dissimilar to the Scud's, at 1.5km/sec give or take. In other words, a Shahab-3 fired straight up (the Kavoshgar-1) would likely have an apogee of ~120km since it is believed to have a burn time of 95 seconds or so.

So, for a moment, lets assume the Simorgh's 1st stage has a velocity of 1.5km/second as the Shahab-3 does. Because of its larger size, most observers estimate the Simorgh's 1st stage could have a burn time of ~130 seconds meaning the first stage would burn out at an altitude of 180-190km if I am doing the math properly. However the weight of a possible 2nd stage could lower this altitude somewhat and so to be on the safe side a Suborbital Simorgh should have a small second stage to ensure the payload gets to the proper apogee.

Now for clarity, the reason I prefer the Simorgh as the basis for a Sub-orbital flight is the Shahab-3 has too small of a diameter to fit even a very small module like the Mercury. The Simorgh's diameter of over 2 meters would be a better fit, assuming of course the prospective 2nd stage is the same diameter or similar.

Also for more clarity, it should be known that most sources agree the needed velocity for a payload to reach Low Earth Orbit is roughly 7.7km/second. So the speeded needed for a fligth like the Mercury is considerably less.

So I will have to revise my previous opinion about how achieved their 2016 goal for a manned suborbital flight is. I still think 4 years (since the Simorgh is not to be tested til next year) isn't quite enough time for proper testing (you want at least 2 unmanned tests first to be safe). But its still very achievable once the Simorgh is tested.

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ir
Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
there is now question that they have to redsign the rockets from ground up to acomplish the said feat.

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
There is no need to redesign anything. I am now fairly certain the Simorgh can do the job and wouldn't even need a very powerful 2nd stage to do it (likely just a small solid-fuel motor) without having to modify the engines.

The trick is to make sure it can achieve the needed speed of +2km/second to be able to place the needed payload into a decent suborbital flight. This speed assumes of course Iran wants a relatively long suborbital flight and not a very brief one like that of the SpaceShipOne, either is achievable with the Simorgh.

Iran needs to do the following in the next 5 years:
1. Capsule- Iran needs to design a capsule large enough to carry a single human being, my guess is it will need to weigh at least 1000-1500kg.
2. Simorgh Development- The Simorgh won't be tested til 2012
3. 2nd stage- Preferably, Iran needs to design a small 2nd stage motor to make sure the capsule achieves the needed speed. This engine would not have to be very big.
4. Tests- Once the final concept is chosen, Iran will need to test it several times before they put a man in it. These will likely be automated flights since the use of monkeys or apes for that duty is no longer necessary or warranted.

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
Eagle
announced time for launching Simorgh SLV is this year not next year.
I think in parallel to Simorgh,Iran is working on larger SLV's

I think you have read reports about Qaem telecommunication sattelite which will be used for Radio&TV orgnization of Iran. Announced time for puting it into 36000 km orbit is 1395 ( now we are in 1390)  certainly for puting Qaem in 36000 km orbit a much heavier SLV than Simorgh is needed.

http://www.irna.ir/NewsShow.aspx?NID=30346458

even befor unveiling Simorgh, we have report about development of a fifteen-engines SLV which was announced by Ahmadinejad.

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
i think that should be taken with a grain of salt becuase the luanch of second sattelite is late by 2 years and counting.

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3. Thrust- the Redstone is a single stage rocket that produces 39 standard tons of thrust (78,000lbs)
4. Fuel- The Redstone uses Liquid Oxygen and Ethly Alcohol. The Liquid Oxygen is a much more potent fuel than the Kerosene and Nitric Acid fuel mixture of the Shahab-3.

In the ISA website it was claimed the Safir's thrust increased from 32 to 37 tons and  the Safir used more powerful type of fuel for the first stage than Kerosene.   

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
well it is not tested for human rated missions it should be tested 5 times least

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Major (سرگرد)
well it is not tested for human rated missions it should be tested 5 times least

No 4 times.
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moores law driving force of innovation
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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
well at that rate they are launching it will still take 12 years

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Major (سرگرد)
well at that rate they are launching it will still take 12 years

11 to be exact.

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
Chacko-T,

I am well aware of the ISA's announcements but as I pointed out the thrust is not the point. Burn time and speed are the points. Now while the Safir has similar thrust to the Redstone rocket it does not have its burn time (for the 1st stage). Also remember the Redstone is just one stage whereas many believe the improved Safir will have at least two stages and possible a small third (not certain just yet). Now the Safir can likely achieve the needed speed for the job thanks to the additional burn time of its 2nd stage engine.

Also we have no real idea about the supposed fuel change of the improved Safir so we can't even use that statement for any comparision because we have no idea what kind of fuel it will use (I have my own theories).

There is also another big problem. The Mercury capsule was incredibly small, just 1.78 meters in diameter at its largest. Considering its size I dont see how you could possible make a capsule any small safely unless you go for something like the Danish HEAT-X surorbital spacecraft (which like the SpaceShipOne is only in space for a very short amount of time, just a few minutes) but I dont think Iran is interested in such short duration suborbital flights and as such they will likely go for a more Mercury like approach and will likely use a similar size capsule. Since the Safir only has a diameter of 1.25, I believe that is too small for a proper capsule.

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Iran Prepares its First Team of Astronauts for Space
   
Monday, 19 December 2011

First team of astronauts from Iran will be chosen by the end of this year, Head of Iran's Aerospace Research, Doctor Muhammad Ibrahimi said, IRNA reported.

In Iran, year changes on 21st of March.

Ibrahimi added that the astronaut team will be compiled from fighter pilots.

"We are currently in negotiations with several countries, which can provide our future team with necessary training. Among these countries are China and Russia," Ibrahimi said.

Head of Iran's Aerospace Research noted that after the team is ready, astronauts will be sent to those countries for specific education and training.

Iran launched its first satellite, dubbed as Kavoshgar-1, in 2007.

Last year, Iran announced it had put a rocket carrying a mouse, turtle and some worms into space.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad announced plans for the monkey flight in February, with the mammal dispatched inside a capsule with life-support for a 20-minute flight about 75 miles above the earth surface. Iranian president also noted, that country plans to put a man in space by 2017.

Monday, 19 December 2011
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/128347/iran-prepares-its-first-team-of-astronauts-for-space-.html
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Private (سرباز عادى)
Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 11:29:15 AM by Sangeshkan_Cave

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Private (سرباز عادى)
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In 2012, Roskosmos will enroll cosmonauts for the first time on a competitive basis



Source
http://en.rian.ru/infographics/20120412/172299766.html

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