0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
InshaAllah, I will contribute to this thread whenever I can.

May God permit my effort to free us from the intellectual oppression of the holocaust myth that is being pushed forcefully and sadistically upon our innocent minds and which is being used as an excuse to ignore the crimes of the Zionist entity which is occupying Palestine.

And as a modification, I will add that what we are technically doing on this thread is not holocaust denial, but the correct term used is "Holocaust Revision."

Using phrases such as myth are just a method of speech or a manner of speaking to refer to certain aspects of the holocaust.
Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 01:22:27 PM by Mr-Babak-S

Logged
0
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)

Below:
Date: Apr 14, 1945
Location: Buchenwald,
Credit: USHMM, courtesy of National Archives and Records Administration, College Park
Copyright: Public Domain

[attachimg=1]
Two victims of the Buchenwald concentration camp.  Photo was taken shortly after liberation by U.S. troops. 
http://www.codoh.com/info/infoihr/ihrexplain.html , June 5, 2011.

Notice how there are only two people in the ovens.
Why is that significant.
One of the points of revisionists is that incinerating 11 million bodies (6 million Jew and 6 million non-Jew) would have required a huge amount of fuel, especially if they were incinerated down to ashes as the orthodox holocaust claimers assert.
The orthodox holocaust claimers (from here on referred to as holocaust orthodoxy) claim that the Nazis were able to get around that problem by using several bodies at once in the ovens.
As we can see in the above photos is that such was not always the case.

The larger point that I wish to make, and the theme which I will continue to return to is that if we look at the claims of the holocaust orthodoxy carefully, and we then examine the evidence carefully, then we will be able to see glaring discrepancies and logical impossibilities.

This concludes my first post.

Logged
0
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Here follows the website summary from which the above photo I took describing how holocaust photos can be reconciled with revisionist views:
I have made some editing changes, but I have included the link to the original:

The photograph above taken shortly after the liberation of the Buchenwald concentration camp by U.S. forces actually supports the Revisionist view of the Holocaust rather than the traditional view.

How can that be?

Crematories were the Nazis preferred method of disposing of the bodies of those who perished in the concentration camps rather than burial.  Most of the concentration camps contained such facilities.

The holocaust orthodoxy even admits that Buchenwald had no gas-chambers:
Buchenwald however is acknowledged today to have not had a gas chamber or means of mass extermination. 
In 1960, Martin Broszat of the Institute for Contemporary History in Munich specifically stated that no one was gassed at Buchenwald.(1)  Likewise, Professor A.S. Balachowsky, a member of the Institut de France, declared in 1971, "I would like to confirm to you that no gas chamber as such existed at Buchenwald..."  Holocaust writer Konnilyn Feig also conceded in her book, Hitler's Death Camps, that Buchenwald did not have a gas chamber.(2)

The holocaust orthodoxy also admits that the only camps that contained gas chambers were the ones liberated by the Soviets:
In fact, none of the Nazi Concentration Camps liberated by American or other western allied forces are generally agreed by historians to have been part of an extermination program.  The terrible scenes witnessed by Allied troops were the result of a complete collapse of the German economy, raging disease, and starvation, due not to a sinister program but rather to the destruction of supply lines to the camps. 
The Buchenwald museum  notes that 13,969 people died in 1945 alone leading up to the American liberation on April 11th.(3)  It was these deaths due to overcrowding, disease, and starvation that the Americans witnessed upon their arrival at the camp.  Even following the American liberation many hundreds more continued to die due to the same causes as experienced during the final weeks and months of the camp being run by the Nazis.

According to the claims of the holocaust orthodoxy themselves, only 11,000 Jews died in Buchenwald (including after the liberation of the camp).
11,000 dead does not match the number from a death factory that had a 24 hour a day death assembly line as the holocaust orthodoxy claims elsewhere:

The final count of Jewish dead at Buchenwald is estimated at 11,000.(4)  This number is not consistent with that of a program of genocide.

Only the Soviets liberated camps that are said to be part of an extermination program.  These were Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau.  The size and number of crematory facilities at these camps are consistent with those in the west like Buchenwald and Dachau which are generally acknowledged to have not been part of any such program.

According to the holocaust orthodoxy, they have more evidence and details of death camp extermination from Dachau camp than Auschwitz camp, but Dachau is no longer considered to have been a death camp by the holocaust orthodoxy.
In fact, the evidence which was created at one time and popularly believed regarding Dachau as an extermination center is more complete and better than the Soviet war crimes report presented at Nuremberg that identified Auschwitz as an extermination center.(5)  Today it is generally acknowledged that Dachau, like Buchenwald, did not have a gas chamber or any other means of mass extermination.

 

Notes:

    Martin Broszat, No Gassing in Dachau, Die Zeit, August 26, 1960.
    Mark Weber, Buchenwald: Legend and Reality, Journal of Historical Review, Vol. 7, No. 4 Winter 1986-87, p. 412.
    The Buchenwald Museum, http://www.buchenwald.de/media_en/index.html
    Ibid.
    Translation of USSR-8, Soviet War Crimes Report on Auschwitz, Nuremberg Trial - 6 May 1945,  Translated by Carlos W. Porter


I suggest visiting the actual site for access to the hyperlinks:

http://www.codoh.com/info/infoihr/ihrexplain.html
Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 08:54:19 AM by Mr-Babak-S

Logged
0
Posts: 1881
*
au
Chief Master Sergeant (استوار)
Mr. Number
I am deleting your comment here because this thread is for Archiving the debate about Holocause not debating the Holocaust.
There are other thread about Holocaust that you can debate this topic.

Also He has not claimede that Holocaust did not take place but that the official story about the Holocaust (numbers, methods ... so on) are propaganda and false.

If you or anyone would like to dispute his facts, please do so but no emotional debates or arguments.

The objective of this thread is to archive.

A warning to those of you who live inthe very free world of some Western countries. Be advised it may be aginst the law of your country to debate here. You may go to jail. Respect your country's freedom and keep out.


IZI
Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 04:38:23 PM by Izirbat

Logged
+1
Banned
Posts: 420
*
Private (E-2) (سرباز دوم)
Am I allowed to post a quote of the UN General Secretary here?
http://www.un.org/en/holocaustremembrance/

--------------------------
Please someone inform me if this is the right thread to talk about the Holocaust or if there is another one
Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 06:06:13 AM by Gigo

Logged
0
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Here follows a portion of a debate that was on another thread in this forum.

The holocaust orthodox person gave the following link with my rebuttel of it and of another link:


    Door of the gas chamber.
    A door to a gas chamber in Auschwitz. The note reads: Harmful gas! Entering endangers your life. (February 1945)
    http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/blauschwitz35.htm





Actually, that evidence supports my conclusion that the Germans had no intention of eradicating any race.
Gas chambers set up to delouse mattresses, coats, blankets, etc were used to kill lice which carried disease which caused many of the concentration camp inmates to die.
If there was a warning sign, then the gas chambers were not used for murder, but rather for disease control.
You see, the official holocaust story says that the victims of the alleged gas chambers were told that the gas chambers were showers so that the Nazis could trick them into entering them. A warning sign would have tipped them off not to enter.
When I studied the holocaust in an AmeriKan school system, we were taught that the Jews were told that the gas chambers were showers so that it would be easy for the Nazis to get the Jews into the chambers.
That also shows that the idea of witnesses is absurd because 1. according to the official holocaust story, the inmates did not know that the chambers were gas chambers, and 2. If the camps truly were death camps, there would be few or no witnesses to tell of gas chambers in any way.
So, once again we come back to my theme: that the “evidences” shown to indicate that the Germans actually had an intent to kill off the entire Jewish population actually are evidences that the Germans did not intend to kill off the Jewish population, but rather to just isolate them or remove them from the rest of the German population, much as the Americans did with the Japanese.
The reason so many more died in the German camps is because the allies bombed the German industries and railways that would have brought food to the camp inmates.

As for Himmler's report, it describes the killing of "banditen" or bandits and those who were "bandenhelfer" or band helpers (those who were helping the bandits, probably a reference to partisans and insurgents), and those who were "banden verdachtige" which means suspiciously tied, meaning those who were suspiciously connected to those helping the bandits.
So, essentially, the Jews reported killed in that report are those who were insurgents (bandits), helping the insurgents, or suspiciously connected to those helping the insurgents. Over a 4 month period in 1942, 363 thousand Jews were executed because (as the report states) they were either bandits, helping bandits, tied to those helping the bandits, or suspected of being tied to those helping the bandits.
That indicates a brutal repression of an insurgency, but it also shows that there was not an intent to wipe out the Jews because there were actual reasons given for the killings other than the victims merely being Jews.
It also begs the question, where are the reports that report Jews being killed solely for the reason that they were Jews? No where! If there were reports like this, then where are the reports that indicate that there was an intention to kill all the Jews?
The lack of such a report is like a loud screaming that there was no intent to kill all the Jews.
So, once again, a piece of "evidence" brought to prove the holocaust actually disproves the holocaust.

So, we are still waiting for the proof that the Germans had an intent to kill the Jewish race.
The gas chambers just show that the Germans did not have an intent to kill the Jewish race. Himmler's note merely shows that some Jews were executed for being suspected of helping the insurgencies.

Where is the real proof.

I would like to thank Gigo for that picture of the gas chamber door with the sign on it. I will add that to the pieces of evidence that I use to show that the holocaust was indeed fake.


The link to Himmler's report is here:
http://www.phdn.org/histgen/schmitz/report01.html

The German word Banditen in the report means bandits.
Uberlaufer means overflow
bandenhelfer means band helper
banden verdachtige means sucpiciously connected to a band
festgenommen means arrested
festgeselte means tightly joined
gefechten means battle.

Logged
0
Posts: 7716
Vahdat, Moghavemat, Ezzat
*
ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
read what he wrote its self explanatory.

your against revisionism so your task is to dersail this thread like you always do
Ya Ali, molla Ali (as)

"There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" - Imam Ali (as)

"''melate ma neshan dade'ast ke be hadaf haye khod momen, va dar rahe on, ta nesar'e jaan eestade'ast.. chenin melati, az america va az hiiich ghodrati nemitars'ad, va be yaari'e khoda neshan khahad daad ke pirooz az on' e hagh, va momenan be hagh ast!"

- Rahbar'e moazzam'e Enghlab'e Islami Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei

Logged
0
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Here follows a portion of a debate between two anti-Zionist Jews: Gilad Atzmon and Daniel Cohen.

To summarize, Gilad is arguing that because some Auschwitz prisoners volunteered to follow the German soldiers in a retreat away from the advancing Soviet red army, then Auschwitz might not have really have been a death camp.

Quote
Daniel: But, in your text ‘Truth, History & Integrity’ you go as far as asking “why Auschwitz’s (Jewish) prisoners didn’t wait for the Red Army ?” Do you think that this is an appropriate question to ask?

Gilad: Sorry Daniel. I have to stop you there, I believe that in order to address this quote, I must first re-locate my words in the right order, and within the appropriate context. In my paper ‘Truth, History & Integrity’1 I quote Israeli Holocaust historian Israel Gutman, who suggests that Auschwitz prisoners (or at least some of them) joined the Death March voluntarily (“I then decided to join the march with all the other inmates and to share their fate” )2. Following Gutman’s quote, I then presented the following inference:

“If the Nazis ran a death factory in Auschwitz-Birkenau, why would the Jewish prisoners join them at the end of the war? Why didn’t the Jews wait for their Red liberators?”

... It seems to me that it is there to suggest that further research is needed. ... My primary issue is concerned with the freedom to wander/wonder, and to raise possible dilemmas without being terrorised by the ‘Holocaust censorship police’ or any other form of thought dictatorship. 


As I side note, I think that it is interesting that Gilad also feels pressured by pro-holocaust "thought police" to conform unthinkingly to a specific view.

I think that it is interesting to note Daniel's response to Gilad.
Instead of answering the question of why the Jewish prisoners would join the German retreat instead of waiting for the Soviet liberators, Daniel argues that such questions should not be raised:

Quote
Daniel: But, can’t you see that with such a manner of behaviour you provide Holocaust deniers and anti-Semites with ammunition? They can so easily misuse your words.


Later on, Daniel again raises the issue, but instead of addressing the question, he instead criticizes it based on its political implications rather than logically addressing the question itself.

Quote
Daniel: But let’s return to your earlier statement — can’t you see that the inference you are making here is that Auschwitz was not a death factory, which to me, comes near to denial.


Gilad then gives an excellent response:

Quote
Gilad: ... I would argue instead that raising the right questions is far more important than repeating the ‘right’ answers. ... Furthermore, I also find the notion of ‘denial’ rather problematic. Instead of denial, I would prefer to emphasise the fundamental and ethically grounded right to revise, re-visit and re-view. I believe that to be tolerant is to agree not to agree, and also to respect others when we don’t agree.


As a footnote, Gilad mentions the following quote from a book about the holocaust by an israeli historian where the speaker describes his reasoning in joining the German convoy leaving Auschwitz:

Quote
2 “One of my friends and relatives in the camp came to me on the night of the evacuation and offered a common hiding place somewhere on the way from the camp to the factory. …The intention was to leave the camp with one of the convoys and to escape near the gate, using the darkness we thought to go a little far from the camp. The temptation was very strong. And yet, after I considered it all I then decided to join (the march) with all the other inmates and to share their fate ” (Israel Gutman editor, People and Ashes: Book Auschwitz – Birkenau, Merhavia 1957).”




The rest of the debate is about the Zionist entity known as israel.

It can be found here:

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-an-interesting-exchange-with-a-jewish-anti-zion.html

and here with my comments:

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/254721


Logged
0
Posts: 1599
*
S.M. Sergeant (استوار دوم)
I have made this topic "Sticky"
izi
There are times like these where the resolve of a Nation is shown clearly to the world. Oh this great Nation of Iran together with its proud citizens showed the world that when the Silent Majority gets rattled the world better pay attention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ls4I37lQrw&feature=player_embedded#at=42  2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbYqckFvUJI&feature=player_embedded   2010

=======================================
This brings back sooooo much memory and tears to my eyes.
http://www.iranclip.com/player/169

Logged
0
Posts: 2616
There is always a bigger fish!
*
de
Captain (سروان)
Holocaust, Holocaust, I don't give a shit about Holocaust! Me wasnt born in 3rd Reich. My Parents wasnt born in 3rd Reich. Me must pay money to Israel for things me and my Parents never did. It doesent matter if the Holocaust happend or not: NO Jew has the right to tell me
guilty of something like that! And if he does it in my face, i will instantly smash him  his nose bone right into his brain! I get so sick of that shit  >:(

Edit:

And no one else has the right to tell me guilty about that shit! He also get smashed by doing it! -.-
================================================================================
Me like this statement

http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/index.php?topic=19216.msg171013.#msg171013
Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 03:54:37 PM by Ich

Logged
+1
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2011/03/anthony-lawson-holocaust-hate-speech-were-the-germans-so-stupid/

Video link: 
Page not found on Vimeo

Alternative link:  Nurenberg... | Zeitgeist Explorateur on Blip

Having been tortured, Rudolf Höss, who was the commander of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943, almost certainly lied to save the lives of his wife and children. Even if torture and duress cannot not be proven, the overwhelming reason for recognizing the utter falsity of the Höss confession is that the gassing method he described was not scientifically plausible.

Yet Höss’s conviction has stood, by inference, as a testament to the cruelty of Germans in general, since he was tried at Nuremberg, in 1947, and subsequently hanged on April 16th, 1947, in Poland.





With great respect for those who have tried—though harassed, punished, fined, imprisoned and otherwise abused—to tell it like it really was: Arthur R. Butz, Robert Faurisson, Paul Grubach, Gerd Honsik, David Irving, Kevin Käther, Nicholas Kollerstrom, Fred Leuchter, Horst Mahler, Ingrid Rimland, Germar Rudolf, Bradley Smith, Sylvia Stolz, Fredrick Töbin, Ernst Zündel and many others.

General References:
http://www.whale.to/b/rudolf_hoess.html
http://fathersmanifesto.net/hoess.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/bernard-baruch#ixzz1EIP9oT5c
http://www.white-history.com/hwr61.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Zionist_Organization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp
http://remember.org/Facts.aft.tri.nur.html
http://www.rense.com/general68/hoss.htm
http://www.zundelsite.org/debate/006_jam.html
http://www.holocausthandbooks.com/
http://www.ihr.org/main/leaflets.shtmlRudolf Höss
http://www.codoh.com/trials/triHöss.html

Charles F. Wennerstrum
http://www.iowacourtsonline.org/wfdata/frame1773-1463/pressrel68.asp

Robert Faurisson: Höss torture.
http://www.rense.com/general68/hoss.htm

Transfer Agreement Book
http://www.stockmaven.com/transfer_B5.htm

Japanese internment
http://archive.vancouver.wsu.edu/crbeha/ja/ja.htm

Palestine Mandate
http://www.mideastweb.org/mandate.htm

Agreement to bring America into WWI
http://separateduntoholiness.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/the-rothschild-1901-1919-the-secret-creators-of-world-war-1/

At Basle I founded the Jewish state
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/history1.html

Claim: Auschwitz II-Birkenau, more than 20,000 people could be gassed and cremated each day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp

Cremation specialists disagree
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

Stephen F Pinter: No gas chambers in German camps
http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/real_freedom/Propaganda/nature_and_condition_of_german_concentration_camps.htm

“Not one case of death by poison gas was found.”
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20070406.htm
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml

Interesting video: Israeli Minister “We always use the anti-Semitism trick or bring up the Holocaust” 14 August, 2002 Shulamit Aloni
Israeli Minister "We always use the anti-Semitism trick or bring up the Holocaust" Small | Large


NOTE: This Video was originally created and uploaded by Anthony Lawson to YouTube, but YouTube deleted it under the pretext of some spurious copyright claim over some of the used footage.


Logged
0
Posts: 2616
There is always a bigger fish!
*
de
Captain (سروان)
Yes. There died some, but  there died more sinti and roma than jews.

Logged
0
Posts: 7716
Vahdat, Moghavemat, Ezzat
*
ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
Yes. There died some, but  there died more sinti and roma than jews.

Ich, you should be careful what you say on this thread, you can end up in jail for it in Germany.

Logged
0
Posts: 2616
There is always a bigger fish!
*
de
Captain (سروان)
The truth will win.
 
Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 10:22:20 PM by Ich

Logged
0
Posts: 2616
There is always a bigger fish!
*
de
Captain (سروان)
The english wikipedia is wrong. Even the german state confesses that there were more than 500000 sinti and roma died in "Holocaust". And it is also true that the first "tribe/race" killed in KZ were the sinti and roma IN THE YEAR OF 1936! But the "counting" of death officially begins 1939/40! So some say there were over a million sinti and roma died. And anotherone:  The number of jews died in a gaschamber decreases and decreases over the decades - officiallly! And also officially the most died as working slaves in the armament works and projects, due to less food and medicine or by bullet.
Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 10:25:53 PM by Ich

Logged
0
Posts: 7716
Vahdat, Moghavemat, Ezzat
*
ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of a Scholar: Dr. Christian Lindtner and Holocaust Revisionism
By: Jürgen Graf

When I visited Copenhagen in 1997 and 1998, I had several lengthy discussions with Danish revisionist Dr. Christian Lindtner, a Sanskrit scholar and expert in the history of Buddhism. Lindtner impressed me with his extraordinary knowledge of classical languages, and he seemed to be thoroughly familiar with the revisionist arguments. Therefore I was very glad when I learned in December 2006, during the Holocaust Conference in Tehran, that he had been chosen as a member of the committee for the promotion of revisionist research. (Later this committee turned out to be completely useless, as it did precisely nothing.)

In the meantime, Lindtner has come, or pretends to have come, to the conclusion that Holocaust revisionism is "a moral and intellectual aberration" and "chutzpah". On 20 July 2011, he stated in an e-mail to Dr. Fredrick Töben.

"I hope that you will find the time to study the two huge books about the German Ordnungspolizei by Wolfgang Curilla (2006 & 2011). His admirable research is based on original German sources. It can no longer be denied that more than four million Jews were murdered by various units of German police etc. Hence the time has come to face the fact that Holocaust revisionism, or denial, is simply irresponsible CHUTZPAH".

In a second e-mail to Toben, dated July 21, Lindtner raised the ante:

"I have now studied these Curilla’s and other books by the best German scholars for several years, and of course I am certain that one can rely on their research. As a classical philologist, I recognize traditional German scholarship when it is at its best. The claim that Leichenkeller 1 in Krema II was not a gas chamber is also a case of chutzpah. As you are aware, Bischoff wrote to Kammler 29 January 1943 that it was a Vergasungskeller, and the two engineers from Topf & Söhne (Karl Schultze and Fritz Sander, 17 February 1943) called it a Gaskeller. … The lacking holes can also easily be explained. When Leichenkeller 1 was blown up, the holes, i.e. the edges of the holes, would have been the first to be blown away by the enormous pressure seeking to’escape’. The evidence for gas vans is also convincingly established. It is also chutzpah to say: 'No holes, no holocaust’ – as if the shooting of millions of Jews had nothing to do with the Endlösung! So, for these and many other reasons, it is now my firm conviction that Holocaust Revisionism is a moral and intellectual aberration. … My claim is serious: Denial is chutzpah. … Now we understand why Himmler said to the generals in Sonthofen, 21 June 1944: Es ist gut, dass wir die Härte hatten, die Juden in unserem Bereich auszurotten. It is good that we were tough enough to exterminate the Jews in our sphere of influence. He goes on to say that the Weiber and Kinder women and children were also murdered. … Himmler was honest, and we have to be honest as well."

I will now analyze Lindtner’s arguments point by point.

1) Wolfgang Curilla and the German Ordnungspolizei

First of all, I readily acknowledge that I have not read the two books by Wolfgang Curilla. Together with two other revisionists, I plan to write a study on the Einsatzgruppen question.
Now let us have a look at what the website buecher.de says about the first of them, Die deutsche Ordnungspolizei und der Holocaust im Baltikum und in Weissrussland 1941-1944 (Schöningh, 2006):

"Die Ordnungspolizisten waren für die Deportation oder Ermordung der über zwei Millionen jüdischen Opfer in der Sowjetunion mitverantwortlich. W. Curilla beschreibt den Einsatz der Ordnungspolizei erstmals flächendeckend für das Baltikum und Weissrussland. Als Quellen dienten ihm neben der zeitgenössischen Überlieferung eine Fülle von grossenteils bisher unveröffentlichten Dokumenten und Zeugenaussagen aus weit über 100 Strafverfahren gegen NS-Täter in der Bundesrepublik, in Österreich und der damaligen DDR."

(The members of the Ordnungspolizei were jointly responsible for the deportation or murder of the more than two million Jewish victims in the Soviet Union. W. Curilla gives a comprehensive description of the activities of the Ordnungspolizei in the Baltic states and Belarus. In addition to contemporary documents, his sources were hitherto largely unpublished documents and eyewitness reports from far more than 100 trials of National Socialist perpetrators in the German Federal Republic, Austria and the former German Democratic Republic.)

So Curilla’s sources were contemporary documents such as the "Ereignismeldungen" of the Einsatzgruppen, plus post-war trials against "National Socialist perpetrators". This is indeed the kind of evidence the Holocaust historians routinely adduce. Raul Hilberg does the same thing in his three-volume classic The Destruction of the European Jews. We will soon see what these sources are worth.

2) The lack of forensic evidence for the alleged mass murders

Let us assume that the Holocaust historians are right and that the Germans indeed killed more than two million Jews in the Soviet Union. If this were the case, there would be a huge amount of material evidence. When the Germans discovered the bodies of 4,143 Polish officers shot by the Soviets at Katyn, they flew in an international commission, consisting of physicians from no fewer than 12 countries, to inspect the site of the crime and to carry out autopsies. They then published a detailed forensic report about the massacre.1 Some months later, the Germans did the same thing after finding the bodies of 9,432 Ukrainians murdered by the NKVD at Vinnitsa before the war, inviting no fewer than eight local and six foreign commissions to verify the facts.2The National Socialist propagandists used the grisly discoveries for a very successful anti-Bolshevist campaign.

Now according to the Holocaust historians and the august Sanskrit scholar Dr. Christian Lindtner, the Germans murdered more than two million Jews in the Soviet Union alone. This figure is about 140 times higher than the combined toll for Katyn and Winnitza. Surely the Soviets followed the German example and flew in international commissions to repay their adversaries for the shame of Katyn and Winnitza, with interest? Surely at the Nuremberg trial they showed films about the exhumation of hundreds of thousands of bodies? No, they did not.

This did not mean that the Soviets had not dug up any mass graves containing the bodies of victims of the Germans, or that they had not carried out any autopsies. Such investigations had indeed taken place, however their results were not widely publicized because they belied the phantastic exaggerations of Soviet propaganda. The following three examples will amply suffice to illustrate this point:
In August 1944, three graves containing a total of 305 bodies were detected by the Red Army near the former labour camp Treblinka I, about 2 kilometers from the alleged "extermination camp” Treblinka II.3
In January 1945, after the liberation of Auschwitz, the Soviets found a mass grave containing 536 bodes.4
On the site of the former concentration camp Salaspils in Latvia the Soviets discovered 564 bodies.5 This did not prevent their propagandists from brazenly claiming that no fewer than 101,000 people had been murdered at Salaspils.6Today’s Holocaust historians, such as the Latvian Hinrichs Strods and the Germans A. Angrik and P. Klein, put the Salaspils death toll at 2,000-3,000.7 If the higher of these two figures is correct, the Soviets had exaggerated the number of victims by more than 30 times – just as they did at Auschwitz (4 million8 versus the real figure of about 135,5009), Majdanek (1.5 million10 versus the real figure of between 42,200 and 50,00011) and Sachsenhausen (840,00012 versus the real figure of slightly over 20,00013).

In other words, the Soviet forensic investigations only proved that many people (Jews and non-Jews) had indeed died in German captivity, and that the Germans had indeed carried out executions – something no serious revisionist has ever disputed. They did not produce a shred of evidence for the large-scale massacres claimed by Soviet propagandists, Jewish and German Holocaust historians and Danish Sanskrit scholars.

3) The "Aktion 1005”

According to Holocaust lore, in June 1942 Heinrich Himmler ordered SS-Sturmbannführer Paul Blobel to erase the traces of the massacres in the East. Being his master’s obedient servant, Blobel formed a special kommando with the code designation 1005. This Kommando had to dig up the mass graves and to remove the corpses. Blobel and his men travelled to all occupied territories to fulfill their ghastly task.

The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust shows a map with the most important locations where these activities are supposed to have transpired. This is a huge area which extends from north to south across approximately 1,500 kilometers and from west to east across some 1,300 kilometers.14 On this gigantic territory, Blobel and his team are supposed to have dug up many hundreds of graves and to removed the bodies of the victims without leaving the slightest documentary or material traces! One really has to be a Holocaust historian or a Sanskrit scholar to believe such rubbish.

One example will suffice to show the overwhelming absurdity of this fairy tale. In late 1941, the Germans are supposed to have shot and buried 27,800 Jews in the outskirts of Riga. Blobel and his Kommando could not possibly have erased the traces of the mass grave, because such graves, whether full or empty, are easily discernible in air photographs owing to the altered configuration of the territory. (This method has been sucessfully applied in Bosnia and other places.) Could Blobel’s men at least have removed the corpses? Theoretically yes, but this would have been a very difficult task indeed:
They would have had to remove millions of bones and bone fragments;
They would had to remove (27,800 x 30 =) 834,000 teeth (we assume that each of the hypothetical victims had two teeth lacking);
They would have had to remove (27,800 x 2.5 =) 69,500 kilograms of body ashes (we assume that the victims had an average weight of 50 kg; the ashes left after cremation correspond to 5% of the body weight) plus a much bigger amount of wood ashes.

Of course, the 27,800 Jews allegedly murdered near Riga represented only 1.3% , or less, of the alleged total of at least two million Jewish victims! Even if the Blobel boys had been supermen, they could never ever have accomplished such a task.

It goes without saying that the splendid German scholars whose works Lindtner has studied so diligently and who, in his distinguished opinion, embody "traditional German scholarship at its best” never give a thought to such irksome facts. Like Lindtner himself, they are "paper historians” (an apt term coined by Robert Faurisson) who are living far from the physical reality of things in their world of documents and books.

It suffices to read Jens Hoffmann’s book about the "Aktion 1005”15 to realize that the whole tale is exclusively based on "eyewitness evidence”, "confessions” and post-war trials where such "eyewitness evidence” and "confessions” formed the sole basis of the accusation.

4) "Eyewitness evidence” and "confessions”

The Holocaust scholars will object that in American custody Blobel himself confessed having erased the traces of the massacres. He indeed did so16, but such confessions were not worth the paper they were written upon. As an American commission reported in 1949, confessions had frequently been extorted by barbarous torture.17 A well-known case is Rudolf Höss, who after three days of merciless beating by a British torture team led by the Jew Bernard Clark confessed to having gassed 2.5 million Jews up to November 1943.18

Not all defendants made their declarations under duress; there were more refined methods as well. Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski, former SS-Obergruppenführer and Höherer SS- und Polizeiführer Russland-Mitte, stated at the Nuremberg trial that in early 1941, Heinrich Himmler had said at the Wewelsburg that the purpose of the coming campaign in Russia would be the reduction of the Slavic population by 30 million.19Now let us take a look at von dem Bach-Zelewski’s fate.20 According to the official "holocaust” story, he was one of the worst criminals. He is said to have ordered the aforementioned murder of 27,800 Jews near Riga and the massacre of tens of thousands of Soviet civilians. Under these circumstances, one would assume that he was certainly put on trial and sentenced to hang after the war, but precisely this did not happen. In Nuremberg he was used as a witness for the prosecution and then released. Obviously this lenient treatment was the reward for having made statements such as the one quoted above, which allowed the Allies to accuse the Germans of having planned not only the total extermination of the Jews, but also a horrific genocide of tens of millions of Slavs. It is true that von dem Bach-Zelewski was later tried by the West German justice, but not for his alleged role in the Holocaust or the slaughter of Soviet citizens. He was tried for two murders he – really or allegedly - had committed in 1934.

Even more important than the Allied post-war trials were the court proceedings against "Nazi war criminals” in the Federal Republic of Germany. As we have seen, W. Curilla bases his accusations against the Ordnungspolizei primarily on the documentation of these trials. As a matter of fact, it is hardly an exaggeration to say that most of the "evidence” for the holocaust was fabricated by the West German justice. To prove this, we only have to point to the fact that in his chapter about the "killing centers”, Raul Hilberg’s most important source is Adalbert Rückerl’s Nationalsozialistische Vernichtungslager im Spiegel deutscher Strafprozesse (National Socialist extermination camps through the lens of German court proceedings); Hilberg quotes this book, which exclusively relies on eyewitness evidence and confessions, no fewer than 41 times.21

It goes without saying that torture was not used in West Germany. The courts of the puppet state basically pursued the same strategy as the Allies had done in the case of von dem Bach-Zelewski. Those defendants who admitted the alleged mass murders were often meted out a lenient treatment, while those who "stubbornly denied” the crime could not hope for mercy. At the Sobibor trial in Hagen (1965/1966) four defendants "convicted” of aiding and abetting with others the murder of between 15,000 and 79,000 persons got surprisingly mild sentences of three and four years imprisonment respectively.22 The defendants Schütt and Unverhau, who had been "convicted” of aiding and abetting with others the murder of 86,000 and 72,000 persons respectively, were even acquitted.23 This proves that these trials were primarily seen as an instrument to establish the juridical notoriety of the alleged mass murders.

It is true that some defendants were sentenced to life imprisonment (after all, the Jews wanted their pound of flesh!), but if they feigned repentance, most of them could hope for pardon. Karl Frenzel, who at the Hagen trial had got a life term for aiding and abetting with others the murder of at least 150,000 persons and for the murder of nine persons, was released on appeal in 1981.24 Although his life sentence was later confirmed, Frenzel did not have to return to prison, the reason almost certainly being that in 1984 he had admitted the alleged mass murders at Sobibor in a conversation with former Sobibor detainee Toivi Blatt.25

As we see, it was quite easy for the courts of "democratic” West Germany to obtain the desired confessions. For the communist regime of East Germany, this was certainly not difficult either. So much for the "scientific basis” of the "German scholarship” Dr. Lindtner so fervently admires!

5) The Einsatzgruppen reports

As proof for the alleged huge slaughter in the occupied Eastern territories, first and foremost are cited the so-called "Ereignismeldungen” (event reports) of the four Einsatzgruppen. These documents cover the period from June 1941 to May 1942 and mention numerous massacres, with victims occasionally numbering in five-digit figures. The "Ereignismeldungen” were supposedly found by the Allies in the Berlin RSHA. That the Germans let this sort of incriminating material fall into the hands of their enemies is strikingly odd.

The alleged slaughter of 33,711 Ukrainian Jews at Babi Yar near Kiev is the most notorious massacre ascribed to the Germans on the Eastern Front. This figure appears in an Einsatzgruppen report from 7 October 1941.26 According to the established version of the facts, these 33,711 Jews were shot and their bodies thrown into the ravine of Babij Yar on 29 September 1941. But the first witnesses told completely different stories: The massacre was perpetrated in a graveyard, or near a graveyard, or in a forest, or in the very city of Kiev, or on the shores of the Dnieper. As to the murder weapons, the early witnesses spoke of rifles, or machine guns, or submachine guns, or hand grenades, or bayonets, or knives; some witnesses claimed that the victims had been put to death via lethal injections whereas others asserted that they had been drowned in the Dnieper, or buried alive, or killed by means of electric current, or squashed by tanks, or driven into minefields, or that their skulls had been crushed with rocks, or that they had been murdered in gas vans.27 Now that is what we call good, solid evidence, is it not, Dr. Lindtner?

When the Red Army approached Kiev, the Germans allegedly dug up the mass graves and burnt the bodies. This work was reportedly finished on 28 September. But two days before, on 26 September, Babi Yar was photographed by a German reconnaissance aircraft. The air photo shows no fires, no open graves and no traces of human activity.28 As a matter of fact, there are some photographs of human remains at Babi Yar, although they do not appear in the file of the Soviet commission. Mattogno has analyzed these photographs. But I do not want to go into details here, so I suggest simply deleting this sentence.

So the report from 7 October 1941, which mentions an imaginary slaughter, is a fraud. This means that all other Einsatzgruppen reports are equally suspect from the beginning.

6) Documentary evidence that there was no extermination policy in the East either

Had the Germans planned the physical extermination of the Jewish population, they would of course have killed children and old people first; able-bodied adults would perhaps have been temporarily spared, because they could have been used as slave-laborers. As a matter of fact, solid documentary evidence shows that Jewish children and old people were not exterminated. The following four examples will illustrate this:
On 5 June 1942 there were about 9,000 Jews living in the ghetto of Brest (Belarus). Among them there were 932 old people over 65 (the oldest one was 92) and more than 500 children under 16.29
In an unknown month of the year 1943, 225 children under the age of 16, plus some old people of up to 86 years of age, were living in the ghetto of Minsk (Belarus).30
At the end of May 1942 there were many old people living in the ghetto of Vilnius (Lithuania); the oldest one, a woman by the name of Chana Stamleriene, had been born in 1852. There were also 3,693 children under 16.31 The angel of death was not hovering over these Jewish children: As we learn from an "Anthology of holocaust literature,” more than 20 schools were founded in the first year of the existence of the ghetto. In October 1942 between 1,500 and 1,800 children were studying at these schools, and in April 1943 school attendance became compulsory.32
In the summer and autumn of 1944 many Jews of various nationalities (also Hungarian Jews who had been previously deported to Lithuania and Latvia to work for the German army) were transferred from Riga and Kaunas to the Stutthof concentration camp, east of Danzig. On 26 July 1944, 1,983 Jews, most of them Lithuanian ones, arrived at Stutthof. 850 of them were under 15 years old33 which means that the oldest ones had been 12 when the Germans conquered Lithuania in the summer of 1941.

All this proves that the shootings committed by the Einsatzgruppen, the Ordnungspolizei and the SS in no way possessed the scope ascribed to them by the court historians.

7) The "Vergasungskeller” letter

Basically it is quite possible to reject the "western half” of the Holocaust story ("Shoah by gas”) and to accept the "eastern half” ("Shoah by bullets”). This is precisely what a clever person wishing to save at least a part of the myth would do: While the revisionists have pointed out numerous impossibilities in the gassing story, there is nothing technically impossible about a mass shooting. But for the Jews this kind of semi-revisionism is totally unacceptable because the gas chambers are an absolutely central element of the legend. For this very reason Lindtner, who fully identifies with the Jewish version of the events and even uses Jewish newspeak (he calls revisionism "denial”!), defends not only the myth of the "millions of Jews shot in the East”, but the Auschwitz gas chamber myth as well. This is an unspeakably foolish thing to do, because together with Majdanek, Auschwitz is the most untenable part of the lie, its Achilles heel if there ever was one. In order to demonstrate the historical reality of the alleged gassings, Lindtner quotes a well-known document, the "Vergasungskeller” letter. On 29 January 1943 the chief of the Central Construction Office of Auschwitz, Karl Bischoff, stated in a letter to SS-Brigadeführer Hans Kammler:

"Das Krematorium II wurde unter Einsatz aller verfügbaren Kräfte trotz unsagbarer Schwierigkeiten und Frostwetter bei Tag- und Nachtbetrieb bis auf bauliche Kleinigkeiten fertiggestellt. Die Öfen wurden im Beisein des Herrn Oberingenieur Prüfer der ausführenden Firma, Firma Topf u. Söhne, Erfurt, angefeuert und funktionieren tadellos. Die Eisenbetondecke des Leichenkellers konnte infolge Frosteinwirkung noch nicht ausgeschalt werden. Dies ist jedoch unbedeutend, da der Vergasungskeller hierfür benützt werden kann.”34 (Crematorium II has been completed, by using all available manpower, in spite of extreme difficulties and severe frost and by running day and night shifts. The ovens were fired up in the presence of senior engineer Prüfer of the contracting firm, Topf & Söhne, and function perfectly. The planking of the reinforced concrete ceiling of the corpse cellar could not yet be stripped because of the effect of the frost. This is, however, of no importance, because the gassing cellar can be used for this purpose.)

For the Holocaust historians, this letter proves that Leichenkeller 1 of Krematorium II in Birkenau was used as a homicidal gas chamber. This thesis was severely criticized by Jean-Claude Pressac; in Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers he wrote:

"The affirmation, solely based on the letter of 29 January 1943, that the term ‘Vergasungskeller’ referred to a homicidal gas chamber installed in the Leichenkeller 1 (corpse cellar) of Krematorium II, was irresponsible, for even if ‘gas chamber’ were correct, there was no evidence that it was a ‘homicidal’ one.”35

So even Pressac concedes that this letter does not prove the existence of a homicidal gas chamber in Krematorium II. Carlo Mattogno explains the letter in the context of the epidemic of typhus which was the main cause of the frighteningly high mortality in Auschwitz. Quoting numerous documents, Mattogno argues that the SS planned to install a provisional Zyklon B delousing chamber in the Leichenkeller 1 of Krematorium II.36 This project never materialized.

8) The missing holes

A key argument against the alleged homicidal gassings in the corpse cellar of Krematorium II is the fact that the four round holes in the ceiling, through which the Zyklon B was reportedly introduced into the "gas chamber”, do not exist. To this argument, Lindtner objects:

"The lacking holes can also easily be explained. When Leichenkeller 1 was blown up, the holes, i. e. the edges of the holes, would have been the first to be blown away by the enormous pressure seeking to’escape’."

This is ridiculous. The roof of Leichenkeller 1 survived the demolition of the crematory relatively well; the two irregularly shaped holes, one of which was not even cleared of the steel reinforcement rods, which were simply bent backwards, were not "blown away" at all. So how could four regular round holes in the very same ceiling simply disappear?

9) The gas vans

Lindtner has the audacity to claim:

"The evidence for gas vans is also convincingly established."

The problem is that no such van has ever been found. Nobody has ever seen a blueprint, or a photograph, of these mythical vehicles.37 The Holocaust historians regularly refer to two documents allegedly proving the use of homicidal gas vans, the "Just document"38 and the Becker document"39 , but as French revisionist Pierre Marais has irrefutably demonstrated in his vitally important study about the subject40 , these documents are grotesque forgeries. But perhaps Dr. Lindtner has not found the time to read this book because he was too busy studying the "German scholars"!

10) Himmler’s alleged speech to his generals in Sonthofen on 21 June 1944

On 21 June 1944, Heinrich Himmler reportedly told his generals in Sonthofen that the SS had done well to exterminate the Jews, including the women and the children. For Lindtner, this alleged speech corroborates the exterminationist position.

As a matter of fact, the European Jews had not been exterminated. In France, 75% of the Jewish population, and 90% of the Jews who held French passports, were not deported at all.41 In most other countries under German control, the percentage of deportees was considerably higher, but countless documents prove that, while large numbers of Jewish concentration camp inmates died as a result of the conditions in the camps, there was no extermination policy. On 27 July 1944 the administration of Auschwitz compiled a statistical report about the prisoners "temporarily quartered in the camp of the Hungarian Jews.” The document shows that until that date 3,138 Hungarian Jews had received medical treatment at the camp hospital. 1,426 of them had undergone surgical operations.42 (According to the Holocaust story, a huge number of Hungarian Jews were gassed at Auschwitz between 15 May and 9 July 1944. While not a single one of these alleged gas chamber murders is confirmed by a German document, the medical treatment of 3,138 Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz until 27 July is indeed documented.) As Polish historian Henry Świebocki reports, no fewer than 11,246 prisoners underwent surgery at Auschwitz between 10 September 1942 and 23 February 1944.43 A very strange "extermination camp” indeed, is it not, Dr. Lindtner?

In its English language edition, the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz reported on 18 April 2004 that there were still 687,000 "Holocaust survivors" around – which means that there must have been several millions in 1945. How does this fact square with an extermination policy, Dr. Lindtner?

11) The moral and intellectual bankruptcy of a scholar

The arguments adduced here are not new. All of them can be found in revisionist books and journals Lindtner cannot possibly pretend not to know. These books and journals are available in English and German, two languages Lindtner reads as fluently as his Danish mother tongue. But in order to justify his about-face, Lindtner prefers to ignore this literature and to rely on the works of dogmatic and bigoted court historians who, in their burning hatred of the National Socialist system, violate every principle of scientific historiography and gladly endorse any rubbish as long as it incriminates Adolf Hitler and the evil Nazis.

In the past I felt respect for Christian Lindtner, in spite of the fact that I by no means shared his views about the origins of Christianity. Now I feel nothing but contempt for him.
Notes:
Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn, Berlin 1943.
Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Winniza, Berlin 1944.
Gosudarstvenny Arkhiv Rossiskoj Federatsii, Moscow, 7021-115-11, p. 13.
Gosudarstvenny Arkhiv Rossiskoj Federatsii, Moscow, 7021-108-21.
Gosudarstvenny Arkhiv Rossiskoj Federatsii, Moscow, 7021-93-21, p. 15-18.
Wikipedia, Russian entry for "Salaspils".
Wikipedia, German entry for "Salaspils".
URSS-008.
Carlo Mattogno, "Franciszek Piper und die Zahl der Opfer von Auschwitz", Vierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung 1/2003.
IMT, volume VII, p. 590.
Jürgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno, Concentration Camp Majdanek. A historical and technical study,Theses & Dissertations Press, Chicago 2003, chapter 4. www.juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/zur-revision-der-opferzahl-von-majdanek.html.
IMT VII, p. 416, 417, 644.
Carlo Mattogno "KL Sachsenhausen. Stärkemeldungen und ‚Vernichtungsaktionen’, Vierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung 2/2003.
Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. I, entry "Aktion 1005".
Jens Hoffmann, "Das kann man nicht erzählen". Wie die Nazis die Spuren ihrer Massenmorde im Osten beseitigten, Konkret Verlag, Hamburg 2008.
NO 3842. NO-3947.
E. van Roden, "American Atrocities in Germany", The Progressive, February 1949.
Rupert Butler, Legions of Death, London 1983, p. 235 f.. Robert Faurisson, "How the British obtained the confessions of Rudolf Höss", Journal of Historical Review, Vol. 7, no. 4 (Winter 1986/1987).
IMT, Volume IV, p. 535/536.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_dem_Bach-Zelewski
Jürgen Graf, The Giant with Feet of Clay. Raul Hilberg and his standard work about the Holocaust, Theses & Dissertation Press, Capsha 2001, chapter VII, 1.
Jürgen Graf, Thomas Kues, Carlo Mattogno, Sobibor. Holocaust Propaganda versus Reality, The Barnes Review, Washington 2010, p. 183.
Idem, p. 185.
Idem, p. 397.
Stern, No. 13, 22 March 1984.
R-102.
Herbert Tiedemann, "Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in: Germar Rudolf (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust, Theses & Dissertations Press, Chicago 2003, pp. 501-528.
John Ball, Air Photo Evidence, Delta (B. C.) 1992, p. 107, see also J.C. Ball, "Air Photo Evidence,” in. G. Rudolf (ed.), ibid., pp. 269-282, here p. 273f.
Raisa Tschernoglasova, Трагедия евреев Белоруси в 1941-1944 годах; Minsk 1997, p. 274 f.
Judenfrei! Свободно от евреев, Minsk 1999, p. 289 f.
Vilnius Ghetto. List of prisoners, Volume 1, Lietuvos valstybinis muziejus, Vilnius 1996.
J. Glatstein, I. Knox, S. Marghoses (ed)., Anthology of Holocaust Literature, Atheneum, New York 1968, p. 90 f.
Archiwum Muzeum Stutthof, I-IIC-3.
Archiwum Państwowego Muzeum w Oświęcimiu, BW 30/34. p. 100.
Jean-Claude Pressac, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989, p. 142, quoted according to Carlo Mattogno, Le camere a gas di Auschwitz, effepi, Genoa 2010, p. 47. Retranslation from the Italian.
C. Mattogno, Le camere a gas di Auschwitz, op. cit., p. 47 f.
An alleged photograph of a gas van can be found in Gerald Fleming’s book Hitler und die Endlösung (Limes Verlag, Wiesbaden and Munich 1982) But in 1945 a Polish commission, which inspected this van, had come to the conclusion that it had only been used to transport furniture. Carlo Mattogno, Il campo di Chelmno fra storia e propaganda, effepi, Genoa 2009, p. 49-51.
Bundesarchiv Koblenz, 58/871.
PS-501.
Pierre Marais, Les camions à gaz en question, Polémiques, Paris 1994.
Serge Klarsfeld, Le mémorial de la déportation des juifs de France, The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, Paris 1978.
Gosudarstevenny Arkhiv Rossiskoj Federatsii, Moscow, 7021-108-32, p. 76.
Henry Świebocki, "Widerstand", in: Auschwitz. Studien zur Geschichte des Konzentrations- und Vernichtungslagers, vol. IV, Oświęcim 1999, p. 330.

h ttp://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2011/volume_3/number_4/dr_christian_lindtner_and_holocaust_revisionism.php

Logged
0
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
The Einsatzgruppen and the Holocaust
By: Joseph Bishop

The history of the Holocaust, within the larger context of the Second World War has the unusual and unique facility of periodically transforming itself, albeit in a manner which serves perceived Jewish collective interests. This is important because the Holocaust is unlike any other conflict, war, event, or cause in history in that it remains deeply rooted in the public consciousness. In an American context and very broadly summarized, it has taken the following forms:

Soon after 1945, the received version was that the Nazis had murdered around eleven million people - six million Jews, and about five million Poles. Others too were identified as victims, but those were the two most significant victim categories. It was said that these eleven million people were dispatched mainly by mass gassings. Such gassings occurred, as the story went in all the Nazi concentration camps. Auschwitz - actually a constellation of camps but collectively perceived as one large one - stood out as the main site of these gassings.

Within a couple of decades, the story shifted a bit. The salient feature of the gas chamber as the prime murder weapon remained, but it was now confined to 'eastern' camps as opposed to those of the 'west'. This is partly related to the Cold War period in which the Soviets and their minions controlled areas in which those eastern camps - being under Soviet control and continued occupation - were not open to inspection and research. Auschwitz - being in Poland - remained the main site and had by now become the centerpiece of the Holocaust legend in books, films, plays, and popular consciousness.

As time passed and with the loosening of travel restrictions and communistic rigidity, the former concentration camps evolved some tourist trappings. People could travel to them - both west and east, tour their museums, and be guided through their facilities, both original and in postwar mockup. They could ask questions and ponder the significance of their surroundings. A small but determined sub-category of visitor known as 'revisionist' also inspected some of these camps, particularly Auschwitz, and even took forensic samples of the original structures which supposedly served as gassing facilities. The resultantly published work of Fred Leuchter, Germar Rudolf, and others, demonstrated that the chemical residues analyzed from these facilities were not consistent with the official account. Or put another way, the alleged mass gassings almost certainly did not take place. In consequence, the process of historical revisionism dictated that the numbers be dramatically reduced. A wide variety of other objections, not just the chemical residues of Zyklon B, necessitated the change in number, but at least the change did occur.

The authorities maintaining the Auschwitz camp indeed ultimately responded by revising the numbers downward. Suddenly the four million murdered dropped to an official figure of a little over a million. This is where the overall Holocaust story underwent another major evolution. In this latest twist, the Six Million figure somehow was retained - relating to a sort of mystic symbolism that seemingly has to be retained at all costs - and a shifting of how the figure was arrived at occurred. Suddenly the 3 million Jews killed within that 6 million figure, perished 'in the east' with little explanation and no statistical backing. While the Einsatzgruppen or ‘action groups’ (or ‘squads’) has grown in its significance the typical estimate of victims of these groups are between 1.3 and 2.2 million. As the story continues to shift and evolve it appears that the missing “victims” may yet be attributed to the Einsatzgruppen or even the German army.



German Field Marshal Erich von Manstein, belied the accuracy of the Einsatzgruppen reports. Photo: 1938. Source: Deutsches Bundesarchiv (German Federal Archive), Bild 183-H01758. Wikimedia Commons: Bundesarchiv Commons.

Not a lot of detail was given at first, but the vague form of this newly revised Holocaust story was that these SS men herded Jews together at various locales and there shot them. Some were allegedly killed in 'gas vans' or via other means, but the majority were shot or machine-gunned. This is of great interest to revisionists. Hitherto revisionist researchers had focused their attention primarily on gas chambers, Zyklon B, cremation rates, open pit burnings, high water tables, coke deliveries, death records, and similar, chipping and gouging away at court sanctioned history. But the Einsatzgruppen idea was something relatively new. Only limited revisionist research has been done on this subject.

I would like to pose a number of questions which could serve as excellent starting points relevant to the revisionist process and then try to briefly respond to them. Firstly, what were the actual responsibilities of the Einsatzgruppen? Their main task was maintaining order and security within the rear areas of the German armies on the eastern front. This included the gathering of intelligence and especially the combating and repression of partisans. With this new twist in the Holocaust story, they were also somehow additionally tasked with the total extermination of Jews. Not just the Jews of all the areas they were responsible for - Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, the Crimea, areas of the Caucasus, and occupied Russia - but also Jews from Germany and western Europe which were allegedly shipped off to them for liquidation.

Now let it be clearly known here that geographically we are talking about an enormous physical area not dissimilar to the size of the continental United States. How many personnel were engaged in this multiplicity of tasks? The Einsatzgruppen consisted of four main groups - A, B, C, and D - each comprising between 300 and 500 men. These 2,000 (generously estimated) men were allegedly entrusted with the enormity of these tasks. But how many were actually on duty at any given time, not engaged in intelligence gathering, anti-partisan activity, etc., and specifically engaged in killings? Bearing in mind support personnel - radiomen, supply and transport, administrative, men on leave, men sick, men back home on training courses, etc. - the 2,000 number shrinks. However, even if all 2,000 were active and available for action at all times, the main responsibility of the Einsatzgruppen was anti-partisan activity so how on earth did they get the time to find, marshal together, and kill millions of Jews?

At this point I must add into the equation the fact that other echelons of personnel assisted or worked with the Einsatzgruppen. These included Police battalions, 'Schuma' (Schutzmannshaft, i.e. self-defense) companies of Ukrainians, Latvians et al, even sometimes Wehrmacht security divisions or elements thereof. However, these forces were mostly used to cordon off areas and provide security for the alleged killing units, i.e. when they were not themselves engaged in anti-partisan actions which was their prime activity too. Still, the task is enormous, indeed very problematic, if not impossible.

What about transportation? The actual fighting armies at the front always had priority in receiving vehicles, fuel, and supply. Vehicles in particular were always hard to come by. What little was left for the Einsatzgruppen had to suffice for the transportation of these tiny bands of men to traverse huge distances to carry out their tasks. To get a handle on these problems, consider a comparative provided some years ago by revisionists: The LAPD has perhaps 10,000 officers, all plentifully supplied with modern, fast vehicles, and they have a single task to control crime and in one very small area, yet even they have great difficulty and much of the time crime is out of control. How on earth can 2,000 men accomplish this task and many and more important tasks in an area about the size of the USA and in which much of their transport is horse-drawn or nonexistent?

How many Jews were actually available to be killed, i.e. how many fell into the hands of the Einsatzgruppen? Revisionist researcher Dr. Walter Sanning in his path-breaking The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry demonstrated that the six million figure was impossible, that literally millions of European Jews had escaped the Nazis through legal emigration and through evacuation eastwards with the Red Army as it retreated before the invading German forces. We may never know how many 'Eastern' Jews escaped this way but the numbers are generally agreed upon to figure in the millions. The Germans simply did not have anywhere near the numbers of Jews in their control that the official Holocaust story presumes.

What was the time frame of the killings? From June 1941 through summer 1944, about three years, in much of which whole regions were not in Nazi hands or had been lost. How many Jews could have been killed and how quickly? Rhodes in his Masters of Death, a study of the Einsatzgruppen, claims that these squads usually employed small groups of 4-8 men working in shifts with rifles or pistols and killing thousands or tens of thousands of Jews at a time. Interestingly, he estimates a grand total of about 1.5 million Jews killed by the Einsatzgruppen. Rhodes also suggests that the Einsatzgruppen were so overwhelmed psychologically from allegedly killing 1.5 million Jews that SS-Reichsführer Himmler ultimately decided to shift responsibility for the extermination of the Jews, from squad killings to a more 'industrial' and efficient approach using gas chambers at Auschwitz and elsewhere. Rhodes is one of those court historians who, when it comes to the official version of the Holocaust, accepts all 'eyewitness' accounts, evinces no skepticism whatever, allows all possibilities, asks no inconvenient questions, and breaks no taboos.

Another author not up to speed with the numbers was French MacLean, whose The Cruel Hunters - the 'definitive' study of the famous SS Dirlewanger Brigade - an 'Einsatz' unit allegedly much involved in mass killings of Jews and often working closely with the Einsatzgruppen, estimates a killing total of about 1.3 million which he cites as a sort of consensus of historians on how many Jews were killed in the east. These numbers of course do not explain the missing millions from Auschwitz. MacLean incidentally makes clear that all these units were so overwhelmed with their responsibility for combating partisans that they had little time for anything else.

Oskar Dirlewanger's unit is worthy of close attention because it was well known to be enormously successful in its operations on the eastern front. At most times it had between 300 and 500 men, i.e. it was about the size of an Einsatzgruppe. Dirlewanger and his men won countless medals, decorations, citations, and all manner of bravery awards. They were victorious in nearly every operation and action, moved quickly, and were very highly motivated and disciplined. High ranking SS leaders and Himmler himself respected and feted them. Even Hitler watched their doings and wanted them given every possible assistance. Yet in spite of it all, they were credited with killing 'only' some 15,000 people during their years in action as an Einsatz unit. If the other Einsatz units were as successful, the numbers become relatively paltry when squared against claimed figures of 1.3 or 1.5 million, let alone 3 million.

Rhodes suggests that the SS were often drunk and disorderly and typically engaged in rape, looting, and indiscriminate murder. The author relied heavily on 'survivor' eyewitness accounts. MacLean demonstrates that such units actually were much more disciplined and severely punished men for even minor infractions. He even cites one instance where an SS solder was denied leave for six months for his contracting a venereal disease after not using a condom whilst on R & R. MacLean mostly relies on SS efficiency reports and internal memoranda and documentation, none of which was intended for publication or general information. His work is important in that the Dirlewanger Brigade was thought to be fairly typical of the SS's eastern killing groups. He shows how it was structured and its limitations and varied, heavy responsibilities.

Of related interest is the issue of actual Einsatzgruppen after-action reports transmitted from the field to headquarters in Berlin. Many of these reports claimed whole regions to be 'cleansed' of Jews, i.e. which had become 'Judenfrei' (Jew-free) thanks to Einsatzgruppen actions. But a little known postwar trial, that of German Field Marshal Erich von Manstein, belied the accuracy of said reports. The Soviets were angry at von Manstein because of his many victories over the Red Army during the war and wanted him executed. They tried to claim that huge numbers of Jews were murdered in the rear areas by Einsatzgruppen under his overall command and that he was thus responsible. However, his British lawyer R. T. Paget demonstrated that whole areas supposedly cleared of Jews contained many flourishing Jewish communities that were actually fully functional and untouched throughout the entire war. Clearly the reports in this one area at least, were false or at least greatly exaggerated. The court looked closely at this and accepted the unreliability factor of Einsatzgruppen reports and von Manstein was acquitted. This issue of false reports being filed could be explainable via certain speculations, but more research is needed. Manstein himself did not reference the Einsatzgruppen or even Jews at all in his published memoirs.

The actual Einsatzgruppen reports were also radioed to the SSHA (SS main headquarters office) in Berlin. British intelligence, monitoring such transmissions and having broken the German codes, received the reports but did not make much use of them during the war. Why not? Surely such information, if as damning to Germany as one might assume, would be priceless in the propaganda war. This is another area worth further study.

Colin Heaton's masterly study of German anti-partisan operations in Europe makes clear that all rear-echelon units including SS, were overwhelmingly employed in anti-partisan duties. It is clear that even though the SS made a clear distinction between Jews as supporters of the Soviet regime, and ordinary Russians, Ukrainians, and others who were more often victims of that regime, anti-partisan warfare always had to take priority as rearward security was a prerequisite for any other type of operation.

Recent pseudo-historical documentaries make much of the Einsatzgruppen and pose astonishing claims about the Einsatzgruppen. An Einsatzgruppen officer named Paul Blobel, for example, was allegedly tasked to uncover and obliterate all remains and evidence of killed Jews. This allegedly entailed unearthing mass graves and immolating their contents, grinding bones into powder and carefully dispersing same throughout forests, re-covering the killing sites and planting trees over them, etc. And again, this over a huge geographical area and within a limited time span and with a small number of vehicles and men.

Frankly, claims such as these are not just unbelievable, but impossible. I have no doubt that the Einsatzgruppen did kill large numbers of Jews, at least partly in consequence of their anti-partisan actions, as many Jews were known to be partisans or supportive to them, and many others engaged in sabotage and espionage. Also a large number of Red Army commissars were Jews and Jews collectively were broadly known to be supporters or functionaries of the Soviet communist system. But Jews could not have been killed in the millions and probably not in many hundreds of thousands. One can only kill so many people with very limited resources over a certain time span in a huge area, and especially when one has vastly more important things to do. I do not doubt that many crimes occurred on both sides under the circumstances of a very brutal war that dragged into years and within the context of warfare being waged without the amelioration of Geneva Convention rules on land warfare, treatment of prisoners, etc. But clearly the numbers, even the possibilities, are outrageously improbable.

A sort of Orwellian process is at play in which 'historians,' unworthy of the title, write their books or give their talks in a way in which they try to stay in sync with the Holocaust story as it continues to evolve or in the way World War Two is portrayed. In a Judeocentric culture, this ensures publication and friendly review of their books, payment of speaking fees, and upward career progression. But sometimes they get behind the curve or are unaware of the latest gymnastic-like twists, turns, and double backward flip-flops that are effected to keep the symbolic figure of Six Million intact.

These 'historians' keep their inquiries limited to the pursuit of the standard story and do not take it into broader moral dimensions. For example, I would like to ask: how is it any different, ethically, morally, etc. for a small group of men to murder hundreds or thousands of people with machine-guns or rifles in a day or two of operations, from a day or two of operations in which a small group of men in bombers destroy neighborhoods, schools, homes, and businesses, of civilians who are about as defenseless? Is one group vicious, sadistic, ideology-driven mass murderers, while the other, a 'band of brothers' fighting for freedom, justice, and other similarly ideologically-driven intangibles? Or are they about the same? Distinctions blur and blacks and whites become shades of gray.

Revisionism has a long way to go, especially in addressing the recent arrival of the so-called “Holocaust by bullets.” Surely much of interest will be uncovered in this grand intellectual adventure still awaiting us.
Sources:
Walter N. Sanning, The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry, Institute for Historical Review, Torrance, 1983.
Richard Rhodes, Masters of Death: The Einsatzgruppen and the Invention of the Holocaust, Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 2002.
French MacLean, The Cruel Hunters: SS-Sonderkommando Dirlewanger, Hitler's Most Notorious Anti-Partisan Unit, Shiffer Military History, Atglen, 1998.
R.T. Paget, K.C., M.P., Manstein: His Campaigns and His Trial, Collins, St. James Place, London, 1951.
Field Marshal Erich von Manstein, Lost Victories, Henry Regnery Company, Chicago, 1958.
Colin Heaton, German Anti-Partisan Warfare in Europe, 1939-1945, Schiffer Military History, Atglen, 2001.

copyright 2009 by Joseph Bishop

h ttp://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2009/volume_1/number_3/einsatzgruppen_and_the_holocaust.php

Logged
0
Posts: 7716
Vahdat, Moghavemat, Ezzat
*
ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
Brother Mr-Babak-S,

thanks for your contributions. I'll be reading these once i have adequate time!

Logged
0
Posts: 2493
كونا للظالم خصماً وللمظلوم عوناً
*
lb
1st lieutenant (ستوان یكم)
Guys. If the germans are happy to take full responsibility of the holocaust, why do we want to say its a myth? We dont have anything to do with it

Logged
-1
Posts: 7716
Vahdat, Moghavemat, Ezzat
*
ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
Guys. If the germans are happy to take full responsibility of the holocaust, why do we want to say its a myth? We dont have anything to do with it

We have everything to do with it! Through this lie, they created the zionist entity and have ruined the lives of generations!

Logged
0
Posts: 850
*
ir
Corporal (سرجوخه)
Quote
The8March: If the germans are happy to take full responsibility of the holocaust, why do we want to say its a myth? We dont have anything to do with it.

1. The holocaust is such a obvious lie and such a prevelant lie that the truth cries out for justice. The myth of the deliberate attempt at genocide by the Germans is a falsehood that has spread all over the world and is accepted because the lie is repeated so often.

2. Whenever the USA or Israel want to invade a nation, they compare the leader of that nation to Hitler, or they compare the leaders of that nation to Nazis.

3. The Zionists use the fabrication of the holocaust as an excuse to justify robbing my Palestinian brothers of their land and then persecuting them for decades.

4. If Amerikans can be made to wake up and realize that the holocaust was a lie, then they might be more alert in the future to not accept other lies such as the lie that Ahmadinijad threatened to wipe out Israel, or the lie that Iran is planning on building nuclear weapons to blow up Israel, or the lie that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, or any other lies that the USA uses to spread mass-murder, conquest, and misery throughout the planet.

5. The minds of Germans are being oppressed with this lie, and it is our duty to liberate people from oppression.


Reason number 3 might be the most important reason.

Reason number 4 might be the second most important.

Logged
0
Posts: 2616
There is always a bigger fish!
*
de
Captain (سروان)
1. The holocaust is such a obvious lie and such a prevelant lie that the truth cries out for justice. The myth of the deliberate attempt at genocide by the Germans is a falsehood that has spread all over the world and is accepted because the lie is repeated so often.

2. Whenever the USA or Israel want to invade a nation, they compare the leader of that nation to Hitler, or they compare the leaders of that nation to Nazis.

3. The Zionists use the fabrication of the holocaust as an excuse to justify robbing my Palestinian brothers of their land and then persecuting them for decades.

4. If Amerikans can be made to wake up and realize that the holocaust was a lie, then they might be more alert in the future to not accept other lies such as the lie that Ahmadinijad threatened to wipe out Israel, or the lie that Iran is planning on building nuclear weapons to blow up Israel, or the lie that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, or any other lies that the USA uses to spread mass-murder, conquest, and misery throughout the planet.

5. The minds of Germans are being oppressed with this lie, and it is our duty to liberate people from oppression.


Reason number 3 might be the most important reason.

Reason number 4 might be the second most important.

Yes, in germany you even dont have the right to read any book written by any nazi like Hitler or others. I was in munic where one exemplar is in the Staatsbibliothek. I went in and asked if i can read this book. The answer was: No. I insisted on reading the book, but the security forced me to leave the house.  If you own the book "Mein Kampf": You go to jail. If you own any nazi symbolics: You go to jail. This is free speech, free read  :teeth:! So if you dont know exactly what was going on and it is under punishable offense to build your own oppinion, then most of the germans dont wanne know what was going on.


Logged
0
Posts: 2493
كونا للظالم خصماً وللمظلوم عوناً
*
lb
1st lieutenant (ستوان یكم)
Ich,
Can you get in iran pro shah or pro mko books?  I dont think so. Same is in germany. Although there is a going debate about this.

--

The zionists started their plan to take palestine in the 1800s. Before WW2. In any case, there is no reason to say the holocaust existed or not. Its not our problem if it happened.

The right of the palestinians is fixed... With or without the holocaust. Thats what we should focus on without derailing into a holocaust existance discussion.

Logged
-1
Posts: 7716
Vahdat, Moghavemat, Ezzat
*
ir
Colonel (سرهنگ)
Ich,
Can you get in iran pro shah or pro mko books?  I dont think so. Same is in germany. Although there is a going debate about this.



Shah and MKO were never a legitimate government of Iran. MKO is just a terrorist organization, and in no way comparable to the national socialist government in Germany and the SHAH, was backed by and installed by the british and americans, so therefore not a valid comparison.

Logged
+2