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ba
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Azerbaijan's defense ministry says that five of its soldiers have been killed in clashes with Armenian troops along the border separating the two countries, deepening tensions between the two former Soviet nations.
 
The ministry said in a statement on Tuesday that exchanges of gunfire had been reported over the last two days at numerous points along Azerbaijan's western border.
 
Armenia said earlier that three of its soldiers died in the clashes.
 
Azerbaijan and Armenia have for two decades been at odds over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh territory, which lies within Azerbaijan, but was taken over by Armenia during a six-year war that killed about 30,000 people and displaced one million.
 
The incidents come as Hillary Clinton, the U.S. secretary of state, embarked on a tour of the South Caucasus in the hope of mediating progress in territorial disputes in the region.
 
Azerbaijan's defense ministry said one clash took place near the village of Ashagy Askipara early on Tuesday morning, after their soldiers were attacked by Armenian commandos.
 
Four Azeri troops were killed in the fighting, officials said. Another soldier died in a separate incident, the ministry said.
 
Armenia on Monday said three of its soldiers were killed and another six were wounded in villages nearby.
 
Clinton decried the “senseless deaths of young soldiers and innocent civilians” as part of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict - just hours after Monday's border clash.
 
'Senseless deaths'
 
“I am very concerned about the danger of escalation of tensions and the senseless deaths of young soldiers and innocent civilians,” Clinton told reporters after a dinner with Armenia's president and foreign minister.
 
“The use of force will not resolve the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict,” she said, urging the sides to refrain from violence.
 
Despite years of negotiations since a 1994 ceasefire, the two sides have not yet signed a final peace deal and there are still frequent exchanges of gunfire along the frontline.
 
Azerbaijan has threatened to use force to win back Karabakh if peace talks fail to yield satisfactory results, but Armenia has warned of large-scale retaliation against any military action.
 
Warning that Azeri-Armenian tensions could escalate into a broader conflict with terrible consequences, Clinton said the U.S. would continue to press with France, Russia and others on mediation efforts.
 
Violations of the ceasefire have been frequent, and diplomatic efforts to solve the conflict have failed. The U.S. hopes that at the least Armenia and Azerbaijan can agree to a set of basic principles that might lead to peace. These include the return of territories and uprooted people to their homes, and an eventual vote on the area's future.
 
On Wednesday Clinton is due to visit Baku, where officials said that finding a resolution to the Karabakh conflict would be the main topic of discussion.
 
(Source: Agencies)
http://www.tehrantimes.com/world/98470-deadly-clashes-along-azeri-armenia-border

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ba
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It would be far more better for Azeris to kick out Aliyev and his family of bandits before he really pisses someone off,either they will all end up like these five soldiers today.

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ir
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escalation between two of these will polarize the region once again and we already know who will take whose side ...

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ir
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The free people of Azarbaijan must rise up against the dictatorship ruling over them.

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fr
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Azerbaijan might finish like Georgia soon... For the better...
"Il existe deux leviers pour faire bouger un homme, la peur et l’intérêt personnel."

"Quand la Chine s’éveillera, le monde tremblera"

"Une puissance supérieure me pousse à un but que j’ignore. Tant qu’il ne sera pas atteint je serai invulnérable, inébranlable. Dès que je ne lui serai plus nécéssaire, une mouche suffira pour me renverser"

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Armed forces of Azerbaijan has serious technical superiority...
Without Russian help Armenia will lose the war
and Russia has no border with Armenia.
If Russia doesn't start full scale war, they can't help Armenians, and Turkey will help Azerbaijan without any problem.

Even if Armenia will stop Azerbaijan Army for weeks, they have no chance.
When Georgia is Behind us

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ir
2nd lieutenant (ستوان دوم)
Armed forces of Azerbaijan has serious technical superiority...
Without Russian help Armenia will lose the war
and Russia has no border with Armenia.
If Russia doesn't start full scale war, they can't help Armenians, and Turkey will help Azerbaijan without any problem.

Even if Armenia will stop Azerbaijan Army for weeks, they have no chance.
What are we then? Chop liver?

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ca
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
Armed forces of Azerbaijan has serious technical superiority...
Without Russian help Armenia will lose the war
and Russia has no border with Armenia.
If Russia doesn't start full scale war, they can't help Armenians, and Turkey will help Azerbaijan without any problem.

Even if Armenia will stop Azerbaijan Army for weeks, they have no chance.

I think your forgetting about iran. after all it was iran that helped the armenians kick some azeri ass the last time they had a war.

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ir
Master Sergeant (گروهبان)
Armed forces of Azerbaijan has serious technical superiority...
Without Russian help Armenia will lose the war
and Russia has no border with Armenia.
If Russia doesn't start full scale war, they can't help Armenians, and Turkey will help Azerbaijan without any problem.

Even if Armenia will stop Azerbaijan Army for weeks, they have no chance.

must be some seasonal thing ... we r getting attention of alot of armchair generals these days ...

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Iran has to think how to defend himself and Syria from NATO, so Iran can do nothing serious in this conflict.
But I don't think Azerbaijan want to start war now, time is working for them and in several years their technical advantage will increase.

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ir
2nd lieutenant (ستوان دوم)
Iran has to think how to defend himself and Syria from NATO, so Iran can do nothing serious in this conflict.
But I don't think Azerbaijan want to start war now, time is working for them and in several years their technical advantage will increase.
we have 10,000,000 fighters.

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Armed forces of Azerbaijan has serious technical superiority...
Without Russian help Armenia will lose the war
and Russia has no border with Armenia.
If Russia doesn't start full scale war, they can't help Armenians, and Turkey will help Azerbaijan without any problem.

Even if Armenia will stop Azerbaijan Army for weeks, they have no chance.


Ara, stop reading Western news!

Armed Forces of Azerbaijan suck. Plain and simple. They had both superiority in number and equipment in 93-94. They got their ass kicked. There was a lack of morale back then, and there is an even bigger lack now (probably because most conscripts of Azeri Army have little recolection of Karabah being part of Azerbaijan, and therefore have no emotional attachment).

Armenia-Azeri military balance is not even, I'll give you that, but the disparity is not large. Unlike Azerbaijan, Armenia does not disclose all military deals and the full potential of its army. It is very secretive. Finally, there is no reason to picture a scenario without Russia. As long as 102nd military base is in Gyumri, Armenia is untouchable.

Time is absolutely not on Azerbaijan's side. Caspian peak oil was in 2010, and by 2013-2014 they will no longer be able to avoid arms race. Need proof? http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?country=az&product=oil&graph=production

Russia has massed troops/heavy artillery in North Caucasus right above Azerbaijan. Medvedev declared that "they would not stop there" after 2008 Ossetian war. I don't think this needs further explanation.
Կեցցե Հայ Դատ

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gb
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Darastan

How does Russia supply you arms when your country is surrounded by turkey, Georgia Azerbaijan and Iran ?

As for the Ossetian war russia with all it's might never attempted to go beyond few miles from the separatist provinces of Georgia because rumour says Turkish military was ready to invade the southern half of Georgia  in show down with Russia which was intentionally leaked by US stunt "wikileak" to create tension against warming relation between turkey and Russia.

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Darastan

How does Russia supply you arms when your country is surrounded by turkey, Georgia Azerbaijan and Iran ?

As for the Ossetian war russia with all it's might never attempted to go beyond few miles from the separatist provinces of Georgia because rumour says Turkish military was ready to invade the southern half of Georgia  in show down with Russia which was intentionally leaked by US stunt "wikileak" to create tension against warming relation between turkey and Russia.

My name (or rather username) is Drastamat

Arms are supplied via air and through Iran I suppose (although through the latter it might just be fuel and other non-military aid).

Do you mean to imply that Russia did not further delve into Georgian territory because it is scared of Turkiye? You must be joking. First and foremost, Russia has nuclear weapons and Turkiye does not; that alone is enough to keep Turkiye in its place. If that was not enough, Russian Armed forces ~3x bigger than Turkiye, and its military equipment and fighter jets rival that of America (S-400s and MiG-29s). Russia would burn Istanbul to the ground over a weekend even without nukes. I cannot believe I just took the time to explain that.

The reason they stopped is because areas with large amounts of Russian citizens (Abkazia and Ossetia) were liberated from Georgian control. Russia had no need to further infringe on Georgia's sovereignty. Simple as that. Turkiye had absolutely nothing to do with anything.

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spectator, Turkey is NOTHING without NATO...In fact, they joined NATO because they're scared of Russia..Read some books..It helps...

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Drastamat
Quote
Armed Forces of Azerbaijan suck. Plain and simple. They had both superiority in number and equipment in 93-94. They got their ass kicked.
Armed forces of Azerbaijan are  better organized and trained now...
and now technical superiority increased...


Quote
Unlike Azerbaijan, Armenia does not disclose all military deals and the full potential of its army. It is very secretive.
Armenia has exhibited weapons mock-ups and said that they were in Armenian army and you want to say what Armenia has  modern weapons and Armenia is trying not to disclose them? :D

Quote
Finally, there is no reason to picture a scenario without Russia. As long as 102nd military base is in Gyumri, Armenia is untouchable.
Russia will start war against Azerbaijan if Azerbaijan invades Armenia...
But Azerbaijan will fight only in Azerbaijan Borders...

Quote
Time is absolutely not on Azerbaijan's side. Caspian peak oil was in 2010, and by 2013-2014 they will no longer be able to avoid arms race.

If this is so, don't you think that it is better for Azerbaijan to wait until 2014 ?

Quote
The reason they stopped is because areas with large amounts of Russian citizens (Abkazia and Ossetia) were liberated from Georgian control. Russia had no need to further infringe on Georgia's sovereignty. Simple as that. Turkiye had absolutely nothing to do with anything.
If anybody don't want to be under Georgian Control,they can leave Georgia without any problem.


spectator
Quote
As for the Ossetian war russia with all it's might never attempted to go beyond few miles from the separatist provinces of Georgia because rumour says Turkish military was ready to invade the southern half of Georgia  in show down with Russia which was intentionally leaked by US stunt "wikileak" to create tension against warming relation between turkey and Russia.
Russian Invasion of Adjara is starting war against Turkey...

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DrastamatArmed forces of Azerbaijan are  better organized and trained now...
and now technical superiority increased...

Armenia has exhibited weapons mock-ups and said that they were in Armenian army and you want to say what Armenia has  modern weapons and Armenia is trying not to disclose them? :D
Russia will start war against Azerbaijan if Azerbaijan invades Armenia...
But Azerbaijan will fight only in Azerbaijan Borders...

If this is so, don't you think that it is better for Azerbaijan to wait until 2014 ?
If anybody don't want to be under Georgian Control,they can leave Georgia without any problem.


spectatorRussian Invasion of Adjara is starting war against Turkey...

How can you say the armed forces are better trained/organized? Its not a technical statistic that you can quantify. Armenia whooped their ass 20 years ago because they were better trained/organized, the same is true today. Just because that have more petrodollars means nothing. Your statement is baseless.

Please, find me a link saying saying Armenia has used mock weapons in parades. It had better not be from an Azeri news agency; they also said our tanks were moved by trucks because there was a shortage of fuel (when Iran does the same thing in its parades).

Everything is not as clean cut as you make it. It is clear that Azerbaijan has no intentions of attacking Armenia proper, so why has Russia moved a larged contingency of forces to its border with Azerbaijan as early as last year?

You're right, that would be better. But Aliyev is not thinking about Azerbaijan, Aliyev is thinking about Aliyev. He is buying of properties in Dubai so that when Azerbaijan falls apart he has an exit plan. Besides, did you not see the chart I linked? Do you disagree with that too?

Russia's invasion of Adjara trigger's war with Turkiye??? Why? The last time I checked Adjara is part of Georgia, and Turkiye has not signed a defense pact with Georgia. Even if it did, Turkiye would not risk getting utterly demolished by Russia over Georgia. Besides, Adjarans are predominately Christian, so Erdogans Muslim government wouldn't care anyway.
Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 01:23:11 PM by Drastamat

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ir
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Although government of Azerbaijan are secular now and they have good relation with west, But I think in the case of war, west supports Armenia not Azerbaijan, because Azerbaijan is a Muslim country and Armenians are christian. (Maybe I'm wrong, because I haven't enough knowledge about Karabakh war)

I have read that majority of people of Karabakh are Armenian, So why Azerbaijan claims it is a part of Azerbaijan?
Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 01:41:29 PM by M-ATF

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Although government of Azerbaijan are secular now and they have good relation with west, But I think in the case of war, west supports Armenia not Azerbaijan, because Azerbaijan is a Muslim country and Armenians are christian. (Maybe I'm wrong, because I haven't enough knowledge about Karabakh war)

I have read that majority of people of Karabakh are Armenian, So why Azerbaijan claims it is a part of Azerbaijan?

I'd be happy to explain.

In case of a war, the West will support Azerbaijan because 1. Azerbaijan can easily be convinced to act as a launching pad for an attack against Iran and 2. Azerbaijani oil provided energy security to Europe (which does not want to completely depend on Russia). The UK in particular will be an adament supporter of Azerbaijan, as British Petroleum is the largest shareholder in the extraction projects of the Caspian and Shah Deniz.

The majority of people in Artsakh (the historical name for the region) have always been Armenian because, up until 1920's, it has been a part of Armenia. When the Soviet Army came to the South Caucasus to establish socialistic regimes, it came through Azerbaijan and Artsakh first. It was more convenient to lump the two together logistically, and the Russians figured that Artsakh could always be returned later (because the USSR was supposed to be a workers paradise, and the authorities would have the time/resources to deal with such a probem). As it turns out, the USSR did not have such capabilities and the start of WW2 (and subsequently the Cold War) hindered all possibilty of Artsakh return. They just didn't care, and Artsakh was forgotten about.

NK Republic declared independence just like all the other 15 post-Soviet republics in early 90s, but its mistake was declaring independence from Azerbaijan and not USSR. Therefore, it became international norm that NK was Azeri. A couple of years down the line, there is ethnic unrest in Stepanakert (Armenian dominated capital of NK), and Azeri authorities began shelling the city. Armenian forces liberated NK and opened a humanitarian corridor (for Azeris as well as Armenians, although most Azeris did not take this option),
Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 03:11:58 PM by Drastamat

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Drastamat

Quote
How can you say the armed forces are better trained/organized? Its not a technical statistic that you can quantify. Armenia whooped their ass 20 years ago because they were better trained/organized, the same is true today. Just because that have more petrodollars means nothing. Your statement is baseless.

No doubt Armenians know how to use their weapons better, but Azerbaijan army is better trained and organized than it was 20 years ago.
Why? Do you think Azerbaijan have done nothing in this 20 years?

Quote
Everything is not as clean cut as you make it. It is clear that Azerbaijan has no intentions of attacking Armenia proper, so why has Russia moved a larged contingency of forces to its border with Azerbaijan as early as last year?

This doesn't mean that Russia will attack Azerbaijan.

Quote
Russia's invasion of Adjara trigger's war with Turkiye??? Why?

Have you heard anything about Treaty of Kars?

Quote

You're right, that would be better. But Aliyev is not thinking about Azerbaijan, Aliyev is thinking about Aliyev. He is buying of properties in Dubai so that when Azerbaijan falls apart he has an exit plan.

you want to say that Aliyev is so stupid that he want to exit?

Quote
Please, find me a link saying saying Armenia has used mock weapons in parades. It had better not be from an Azeri news agency; they also said our tanks were moved by trucks because there was a shortage of fuel (when Iran does the same thing in its parades).

Armenian Tochka-U

Tochka-U

It's very easy to find difference

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gb
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Darastan and reza.

It is true Russia avoided excalating the war to south georgia because of NATO counter strike. Turkish army was in the full grip of the kemalist and they were about to take full command and invade south georgia with or without erdogans orders.

Russia is nothing without nukes. Russia is not scared of Turkey but its scared of NATO. Every showdown with NATO, russia lost from cuban crises to serbia bombing and now missiles in eastern europe. Turkey joined NATO because of common enemy of communism.

even during arghanistan war a third world country like pakistan threatened  to raise moscow to the ground if the russian attempted crossing into pakistan. well... then pakistan had a leader with some balls in him.


In the future both NATO and russia will be more weaker than what they are now.
Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 04:20:09 PM by spectator

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ba
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I find it very hard to believe that Azeri people will fight a war for idiot like Aliyev is.Despite heavy arming of Azerbaijan by Americans and even Russians and despite technical support from the same I think that Azeri army have no chance against Armenian army.Armenians are much more organized and are much better warriors then Azeri are.Some fancy choppers and UAVs provided by Israel want make any difference in long run.

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Drastamat
No doubt Armenians know how to use their weapons better, but Azerbaijan army is better trained and organized than it was 20 years ago.
Why? Do you think Azerbaijan have done nothing in this 20 years?
This doesn't mean that Russia will attack Azerbaijan.
Have you heard anything about Treaty of Kars?
you want to say that Aliyev is so stupid that he want to exit?
Armenian Tochka-U

Tochka-U

It's very easy to find difference


I don't know what Azerbaijan has been doing for 20 years. I know that Armenia's army has been improving in every sense of the word. I (or you) have no reason to believe that Azeris are better trained at this point. The only combat experience they have had is in 93 and 94, and they got their ass kicked.

Russia massing its troops/tanks near Azeri border is not an indication of potential attack. Then what are they doing there, vacationing?

I know a little bit about the treaty, but nowhere does it say that Turkiye will attack Russia. I mean seriously, it was signed in 1922 after Turkiye was defeated in WW1. Do you really think they would make statements like that after a defeat? (That being said, I'm not sure about this. Why would Russia invade Adjara anyway?)

You seem to be in the habit of asking questions that you probably know the answer to. Yes, that is exactly what Aliyev is doing. I will direct you again to the oil chart in my previous past. Do you not know what peak oil is? What do you not understand?

I said find me a link that even hints at Armenia doing this, not some pictures off which you draw some far-fetched conclusions. Yes,  I see some anomalies, no that does not mean anything. As a matter of fact, I can't even find any Azeri news sources saying this.

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Darastan and reza.

It is true Russia avoided excalating the war to south georgia because of NATO counter strike. Turkish army was in the full grip of the kemalist and they were about to take full command and invade south georgia with or without erdogans orders.

Russia is nothing without nukes. Russia is not scared of Turkey but its scared of NATO. Every showdown with NATO, russia lost from cuban crises to serbia bombing and now missiles in eastern europe. Turkey joined NATO because of common enemy of communism.

even during arghanistan war a third world country like pakistan threatened  to raise moscow to the ground if the russian attempted crossing into pakistan. well... then pakistan had a leader with some balls in him.


In the future both NATO and russia will be more weaker than what they are now.

Sfagtator,

That's a lie, Pakistan was disorganized back then. In fact Russia, invested heavily in their infrastructure and defense forces. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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ba
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Sfagtator,

That's a lie, Pakistan was disorganized back then. In fact Russia, invested heavily in their infrastructure and defense forces. You have no idea what you're talking about.
As usual.

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