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Colonel (سرهنگ)
Eagle,

Please check both vids very carefully and let me know what u see... thanks for clarifying the mortar btw!

Libyan rebels urge more NATO attacks



Libyan rebels urge more NATO attacks


Britain sends military advisors to Libyan rebels



Britain sends military advisors to Libyan rebels


WTH is that thing with the tripod! thats what I was talking about!
Im Sunni by mind, Shia by Heart, and Muslim by soul! La Ellaha Ela Allah!

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
MO_SOBOH,

Which video do you mean? In the second video we see a recoiless rifle on a tripod but I dont see the mystery there. Libya likely has a massive inventory of Soviet era recoiless rifles (just as Iran does). Now there are reports of US M40 recoilless rifles showing up in Libya since this revolt started. However the US no longer operates that model anymore and havent for some time. So where they could have come from I am not sure. If they were former US weapons I would think the age would be an issue. If they were from NATO states they might be a bit younger but I cant tell from the video what model it is just yet, I will though shortly and undate this post.

But as the rebels asking for more NATO help. For one thing, to be honest, NATO is doing a terrible job from a practical military basis. So much so that Tom Cooper now calls NATO forces "Sissies In Brussels" or SIBs. They are striking targets but not targets that are really relevant to the rebel cause. For example they keep coming up with excuses as to why they dont strike Ghaddafi's force that have been terrorizing Misrata for weeks now, claiming they cant tell the difference between the forces (which is rubbish because the parts of the city Ghaddafi's forces control is fairly well known).

Then again I saw a news report yesterday showing Libyan civilians loyal to Ghaddafi staging sit-ins at Military compounds to keep NATO from attacking them.

Further I have also heard reports of Libyan rebels mulling over asking NATO for ground support in the form of actual ground forces. Now this would require a new UNSC resolution since the current one prohibits "foreign occupying forces" i.e. large numbers of foreign soldiers (since advisers can't occupy anything). I personally don't see such a resolution ever passing.

EDIT- I assume you mean the weapon on a tripod at roughly 22 seconds into the second video? If so, it is clearly a Soviet SPG-9 73mm recoilless rifle.
"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
- Harry Truman
Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 07:55:28 PM by Eagle2009

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Major (سرگرد)
re: The flare with the "Star of David"
My guess is that because it's an illumination round, those markings are representative of the fact that it's a parachute flare round. Illumination rounds are often called "star" rounds so that explains the so-called star of david.

And a photo essay from foreign policy; it includes a number of photographs of the weapons stores that we've been talking about.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/08/bombs_away

Here's one of them:
Quote
Empty boxes of looted anti-tank mines at a warehouse weapons storage facility outside Benghazi.

There were 12 such warehouses filled with Belgian-produced plastic PRBM mines, a particularly nasty mine as it is made mostly from plastic and thus hard to discover with metal detectors. It can also be fitted with an anti-lifting device that makes the mine explode as soon as someone tries to extract it from the ground. Local fishermen were looting the mines to take out the explosives in order to make bombs for fishing. On the outskirts of Ajdabiya, Qaddafi forces recently laid at least two minefields, containing both anti-tank and anti-vehicle mines. One of the mine fields was detected after an electricity utility truck ran over an anti-personnel mine.



Interesting segment from Al Jazeera English about some of the Libyan rebels heavier vehicles:
A look at Libyan rebels' workshop


Here are some interesting Western-made weapons in use in Libya today:

Here's someone carrying a WWII-vintage British Sterling submachine gun


FN-MAG machine gun


FN2000 used by Loyalist forces


This Beretta reminds me of a lot of the types of weapons that turn up in weapons captured from Mexican drug cartels.


Another Beretta, this time a PM12 submachine gun.


The machine gun here is an extremely old Browning M1919 as well as ACU-pattern fatigues.


More ACU-pattern fatigues left behind by retreating Loyalist soldiers.


M-40 RRs


This isn't a western weapon, I just thought it was interesting they were using AFV periscopes as binoculars



This isn't necessarily "western" weaponry, but since the helmets were mentioned above, I figured I'd post another picture of a composite ballistic helmet, except this one came from Loyalist forces.


Carl Gustav AT Weapon


Two different types of FALs, one modern, one older


Loyalist M113 APC


Here's another M1919



---------------

Looking through the photos I'm left with two distinct impressions

1) The sheer variety of weapons used - pointing to a few grainy pictures of weapons (like in the OP video for instance) as proof that the US is supplying arms to the rebels isn't the way to go. Porous borders, an Islamic insurgency, willing arms dealers, etc will always make sure that quite a variety of weapons will make their way into locations like this. At this point, the "odd" weapons, the ones that make us go "hmm", are dispersed at such a wide rate (judging by the photos) that they're probably more easily explained away by ascribing it to unique scenarios, as with the ancient WWII weaponry seen above.

2) The photographic evidence is probably only representative of a small cross-section of the insurgency. The overall lack of military discipline or anything that would indicate even a basic level of competence from the photographs of rebel forces suggests that the people in the photos are, for the most part, weekend warriors so to speak, the people who just picked up a gun and headed west. In other words, they're not the people the "West" would be supplying arms to.

---------------

As I was writing the last point, it made me think about the experience of the insurgency in Iraq. Specifically, what we see now as the rebel force in Libya is extremely ad hoc, you see people shooting PKMs on their back, rockets being launched in all haphazard ways and in general lacking any real military effectiveness. However, if the conflict is allowed to continue, it's very likely these types of fighters would either all go home or be killed off; survival-of-the-fittest if you will, while the rest of the rebels will adapt and transform into an actual military force to be reckoned with. This is essentially the story of what happened in Iraq; the "bad" insurgents got blown up by helicopters, while the "good" insurgents proliferated. 

Speaking from the perspective of the US, this is just another reason we want a quick end to this conflict, in order to prevent the rise of a skilled, much more radical movement then the one currently fighting Qaddafi.

---------------
Lastly, speaking from a purely practical standpoint, it makes no sense for the "West" to be sending weapons like FN rifles and machine guns to the rebels because they already have a relatively large reserve of small arms. If the US/West did try to turn the tide on the ground, the priority would probably be first with advisers, and then for specialty weapons that would act as force multipliers, primarily things like communications equipment, or anti-tank weaponry, laser designators, that sort of thing. 
Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 09:28:43 PM by Ayyash

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Colonel (سرهنگ)
im missing alot of pics from image shack... but anywayz I got the message... looks like I was wrong, but I could be right in the future.... well see, thanx for the replies though it helped alot to clear some misunderstanding...  If I get anything new Ill post it here, and so should u guys as well... for the sake of taking notes!

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Colonel (سرهنگ)
MO_SOBOH,

Which video do you mean? In the second video we see a recoiless rifle on a tripod but I dont see the mystery there. Libya likely has a massive inventory of Soviet era recoiless rifles (just as Iran does). Now there are reports of US M40 recoilless rifles showing up in Libya since this revolt started. However the US no longer operates that model anymore and havent for some time. So where they could have come from I am not sure. If they were former US weapons I would think the age would be an issue. If they were from NATO states they might be a bit younger but I cant tell from the video what model it is just yet, I will though shortly and undate this post.

But as the rebels asking for more NATO help. For one thing, to be honest, NATO is doing a terrible job from a practical military basis. So much so that Tom Cooper now calls NATO forces "Sissies In Brussels" or SIBs. They are striking targets but not targets that are really relevant to the rebel cause. For example they keep coming up with excuses as to why they dont strike Ghaddafi's force that have been terrorizing Misrata for weeks now, claiming they cant tell the difference between the forces (which is rubbish because the parts of the city Ghaddafi's forces control is fairly well known).

Then again I saw a news report yesterday showing Libyan civilians loyal to Ghaddafi staging sit-ins at Military compounds to keep NATO from attacking them.

Further I have also heard reports of Libyan rebels mulling over asking NATO for ground support in the form of actual ground forces. Now this would require a new UNSC resolution since the current one prohibits "foreign occupying forces" i.e. large numbers of foreign soldiers (since advisers can't occupy anything). I personally don't see such a resolution ever passing.

EDIT- I assume you mean the weapon on a tripod at roughly 22 seconds into the second video? If so, it is clearly a Soviet SPG-9 73mm recoilless rifle.
I guess u are right after all... but just to let u know this is the first time I hear or see a weapon like this!

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Lieutenant colonel (سرهنگ دوم)
MO_SOBOH,

No worries,

Though that surprises me a bit since Iran uses this same system and actually produces it own domestic version of it!

To me though the most interesting weapons seen being used by the rebels is the ancient M40 recoiless rifles. Now considering the US did sell arms to Libya before Ghaddafi's rule and the M40 was in the widespread use at the time its feasible Libya received the M40s then but I personally dont think the rounds for them could have lasted that long. But then where did they come from? No one produces the system anymore and havent for decades.

And as you pointed out earlier Western weapons on a large scale could find their way to Libyan rebels in the near future if they aren't already and I have little doubt of that eventuality.

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Colonel (سرهنگ)
well just have to wait and see, wont we...... :-\

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Major (سرگرد)
^^^
That's the same video that was discussed earlier.

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Colonel (سرهنگ)
^^^
That's the same video that was discussed earlier.
yeah realized that later...  :( soz ...

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